So we went to Kittery Trading Post yesterday and picked this up.
A beauty of a gun. Italian 9mm. A CZ75 clone from what I am learning thus far. Apparently parts are getting tough to come by but since it's a CZ75 clone many parts from that will work. Like most importantly clips.
Also I am reading something about it being a "pre series 88" which I am not sure what that means.
Also I need to learn about grain loads that perform the best in this firearm.
Also I need some (lots) of practice with the trigger. It's double action I think it's called. The first trigger pull is long and full while the following pulls are VERY short. Almost just a touch after the first shot. If the shooter is not ready for it the second round could easily be accidentally fired if the shooter is not careful and aware.
Also I need to learn very specifically my local laws. Like how to transport, what is considered concealed, how to legally carry, etc. I don't want to be walking and or shooting out back and get in trouble. We have a range out back that many people shoot at. Local police have been present during shooting and only ask that we not shoot early or late in the day so as not to disturb the peace.
Also I need to learn very specifically my local laws. Like how to transport, what is considered concealed, how to legally carry, etc. I don't want to be walking and or shooting out back and get in trouble.
How are those of us in Kansas, Texas, Florida, etc. supposed to help with that? Not that we don't want to be of any assistance we can offer, but local law is your responsibility. With state and local requirements changing daily, you need to find out who issues CCW permits. That authority should be able to tell you what is required to get the permit and stay legal.
So we went to Kittery Trading Post yesterday and picked this up.
A beauty of a gun. Italian 9mm. A CZ75 clone from what I am learning thus far. Apparently parts are getting tough to come by but since it's a CZ75 clone many parts from that will work. Like most importantly clips.
Also I am reading something about it being a "pre series 88" which I am not sure what that means.
Also I need to learn about grain loads that perform the best in this firearm.
Also I need some (lots) of practice with the trigger. It's double action I think it's called. The first trigger pull is long and full while the following pulls are VERY short. Almost just a touch after the first shot. If the shooter is not ready for it the second round could easily be accidentally fired if the shooter is not careful and aware.
Also I need to learn very specifically my local laws. Like how to transport, what is considered concealed, how to legally carry, etc. I don't want to be walking and or shooting out back and get in trouble. We have a range out back that many people shoot at. Local police have been present during shooting and only ask that we not shoot early or late in the day so as not to disturb the peace.
Open carry is legal in Maine, holstered in plain sight, that doesn't mean sticking the gun in your waist band like I do many times going outback at my place, perfectly legal on my own property but not in public. So just carry the peace in your hand out in the open or in a holster in the open, not covered by any clothing to get to the shooting range. Carry empty, no bullets in the mag or chamber, unless in a holster and for self defense, While open carry is legal in Maine it does create some problems, police want to check to make sure that you are legal, allowed to carry, not a convicted felon or some other thing that makes you even owning a gun illegal. It will get the police and gun grabbers attention just about anywhere you open carry even on your own property, remember the guy with the gun tattoo on his belly just recently here in Maine who was in the news?
And oh ya don't forget , crap I forgot what I was going to say, dam STML !
oh ya, in car carry, must be in plain sight as well, but only unloaded never with rounds in the gun, unless you have a concealed carry permit.
Steve
------------------ Technology is great when it works, and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't
Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-27-2014).]
Haha, now that you mention it Steve I do recall the guy with the tattoo. Cops showed up guns drawn on a guy that had a gun tattoo that looked as if he had a piece tucked in his belt. The guy was standing on his front porch and passersby called a man with a gun report in.
So walking to the pit out back I should holster. Now I just need a holster. So is one of those holsters with the slot/pocket for clips ok? I mean if I have a clip in the slot/pocket and the weapon in the holster is that legal?
TY for your time and as Bjorn advises I am eager to practice, practice, practice. That is why we chose the 9mm. A good medium caliber with a good medium price of ammo. And ammo is another thing I need to learn about....
I have a EAA Witness/Tanfoglio T-95 in .45 - great shooting gun but in a holster, it feels like having a Maglite strapped to your nuts. The center of mass is low in your hand and the thing has a very tight action when new but the great thing is that you can get a barrel, return spring, and magazine set to re-chamber it in several different rounds. The trigger is very light in Single Action and not much that much heavier in DA but the feel could use some work if you prefer a smooth pull. Compared to my Beretta 92S and a GI-type 1911 with a trigger job, it's about the same pull, but not as crisp.
Get some locktite on the rear sight bolts, after a trip to the range they get loose enough to fall out. It gets a great sight picture for those of us that don't have a dominant eye (your truly included) and groups well, even if you're not a great shot. Recoil is practically nonexistent.
Takedown and cleaning is easy as hell, as well. Altogether, a great firearm. I may pick up a compact with a polymer frame eventually.
Other info, Tanfoglio makes the internals for IWI so it uses the same magazines as a Baby Desert Eagle/Jericho 941. It's a lovely firearm.
Edit: yours is a Wonder Finish model, so it should be much newer than the first generation that had slide/frame issues - AFAIK, the problems were only present in the .45 and 10MM models as it was very nearly a straight clone of a CZ-75 which was obviously not designed for such a load.
It can be kept and carried in Condition 1. Mine stays cocked and locked 24/7.
[This message has been edited by skuzzbomer (edited 12-27-2014).]
Steve points out some VERY important info. Loaded or unloaded matters. (that's not the case in all states)
I highly recommend a concealed carry class, even if you don't get the permit. It will teach you a lot about the local laws and what you can and cannot do. Also if you get the permit, it makes transporting a firearm much less hassle. In some areas, locked in the glove compartment would be illegally concealed without the permit while in others it's okay. Some places make you transport in the trunk without a CCH permit. (concealed carry handgun - the naming varies from state to state)
The trigger is a DA/SA - that is double-action on the first pull, and single-action after that. Double action means it pulls back and cocks the hammer with the trigger pull. Single-action means the trigger is already back and the trigger only releases the hammer. That's why a SA pull is so light - it doesn't have do to much. A SA will be more accurate, but the DA is safer for that first shot.
AWESOME everyone TYVM for chiming in. I will attempt to disseminate all the great information later and will look at all your advice thoroughly! Again TY, you see this is exactly how someone in Topeka, Indiana, Tia Juana, etc. can share advice regarding local gun laws...
Anyway my 14yr old son and I took her out and fired a few rounds. He only shot a few but it was a GREAT starting point for him. He understands muzzle discipline and the seriousness of it and was very well mannered and behaved. He followed all of my instructions to the T. But anyway this is about the weapons performance.
His first shot was 1 round. He handled it GREAT. Except the spent shell did not eject. So I loaded up another 1 round and fired it myself and it did eject this time. So we loaded up another clip. This time with 3 rounds with my son shooting and the second round didn't chamber correctly causing a jam. He calmly did as I had previously instructed and set the weapon down while observing muzzle discipline. Great kid BTW!. So I cleared the jam and fired the last round myself.
So previous to shooting I asked Caleb, my son, to try to pay attention to how the spent casing ejects. What I want to look for is how it pops out. Does it fall to the ground right below or does it fly through the air. Well it seems to be quite a mix as far as we can tell.
We probably have around 30 rounds through her and we probably have 2 jams or misfire or miseject type situations thus far. Something that I will have to investigate further.
So what ejects the spent casing? GAH I have MUCH to learn. And hopefully much to teach and share with my son!
Before anyone starts giving you grief about it, it's a "magazine" not a "clip." A lot of people use the terms interchangeably and if you want to, no biggie. But if you didn't know, just an FYI.
Some people have said they had to brake their guns in, with a few rounds in other threads, I have never encountered that in any of the guns I have owned over the years and the list of them is long even just for semi auto pistols. But like I said some people have commented about a brake in period for their particular gun, those that say that are are talking about a gun I never owned.
It could also be the ammos fault for the malfunction. Kittery Trading Post is a great place if you don't get any better answers here about the stovepipes and failure to load problems that solve your problems give them a call tomorrow.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 12-27-2014).]
I have one and its one of my favorite guns... upgrade the grips on it though to hough grips. makes a world of difference.. Also mags are a big hard to come by... Also.. do not fire reloads though it, you'll split your barrel.
one thing you have to watch with this gun is keeping it clean... they are known for getting cracked slides and lower ends if not taken care of properly.
As for transport and concealed... ruel of thumb for transport is gun in the trunk and mag in the glove box
Concealed. Without a permit the gun cannot be carried under your shirt, in your pocket, in a purse, in a backpack etc pretty much anywhere it cant be seen unless transporting it.
In my opinion you couldent have done better for first gun. They are reliable cheap and almost deadly accurate. mine used to be owned by a good friend of mine, the day he put it up on the chopping block I scooped it up. the 1st time I shot it was under his ownership and that's when he split his barrel. But they are great guns...
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 12-27-2014).]
now that I look at yours it is a tad bit different than mine.. I do believe mine is a pre88 but it shoots well enough for me...
Also watch a youtube video on how to strip it... its not as tricky as a 1911 but its not as simple as a glock either
Also Just a good habit to get into every time you touch that gun to clean it, work on it, look at it, show it to someone (be careful who you trust with showing it to) always clear it. the TA-90's safety can be on when you clear it to prevent and accidental discharge. this gun can be cleared like any other. 1st drop the magazine. 2nd pull the slide back Now I've found with the TA-90 the only time my slide lock kicks in after the last shot. it does not kick in on my gun when you rack the slide without a mag in it, 3rd look down the chamber (do not look down the barrel.... trust me there are idiots who do it) once you have verified that there is no round in the chamber than its ok to proceeded with doing whatever it was you were going to do with it.
And make sure above all else you drop the mag before you pull back the slide when clearing your firearm. like said in a video posted on here the other day. some idiot was asked hos safe he things guns were. He pulled the slide back ejecting the round in the chamber drops the mag points it at his head and blows his brains out. If your mag is in there and is loaded each time you rack it, it is going to feed another round into that chamber until the mag is empty or you have a jam (I have never had a jam with my TA)
And your basic but very important rules Always treat it as if it were loaded even if you know it isn't If you don't want to kill/shoot it don't point it at it know your backstop and where your shooting Keep it away from kids.
firearm ownership if very easy and fun as long as you follow those basic rules Believe me firearms have been a very Great part of my life as well as very tragic. My little brothers suicide was done with a firearm. Ownership of them while it is every ones right it is not for everyone.
Also if you ever get it having a CCW puts you in a great place of reasonability. not only do you have the power on your waist to protect yourself and others you also have the power on your waist to cause great harm and pain to others. do not get your CCW or carry a gun without knowing your states laws in and out... some states have brandishing laws that state if you pull a gun on someone and do not shoot you are considered brandishing a weapon . what this means is when you pull a gun on an attacker you must have been in complete fear for your life or someone elses and that lethal force was the only way you were going to keep your life. If you pull a gun on someone just to scare them off While you may think of it as you doing this person a favor by not shooting at them the law can come down on you and say because you did not shoot you did not feel your life was in danger. there is A LOT that goes into gun laws these days that if you own one you need to know...
You must also look up your states castle doctrine, This is very important for anyone who owns a gun CCW or not. Your castle is considered your house, some states also consider it your car while you are occupying it, And some states have very strict guidelines on when you can use lethal force even inside your own home... for instance PA before there doctrine was amended you could not legally shot someone that was in your house in the back. if you caught them and they tried to run or you snuck up on them you could not shoot them in the back and if you did it could go all the way up to I think murder-2. there new amendment says that if the intruder is in your house they have until your lawn where they are fair game for lethal force inside your house. this means if he makes it to your front yard he is not in your castle anymore and cant be shot.. as for the car. you have to also look this up in your state. PA states that while you are occupying your car it is considered your castle, if you are being forcibly removed from your car by anyone other than an LEO you are allowed to shoot at them But... If you are coming out to your car and see someone trying to break in, at that time it is not considered your castle it is considered your property and you cannot use lethal force..
I know I'm rattling off a lot at you but I just want to make sure as a new gun enthusiast you are in the know about these things. I bought my 1st gun on an impulse at a gun show not knowing a thing about them... I did my research for almost a year before I went and applied for my CCW again its a fun hobby and great protection but on the flip side it can cause a lot of pain and hurt if used wrong...
Happy shooting and if you ever make it down to texas ill let you see what a true IXI can do
here's my TA-90 for thread relevance the round I have in that mag are hornandy hollow points you don't wana range shoot them because there expensive but for self defense they are unmatched
[This message has been edited by pontiackid86 (edited 12-28-2014).]
I know. im used to it now, the only issue I have with mine is the pin/slide release. I don't know about the newer ones but on mine it has to be lined up just perfect to slide back in.
Great guys, TY for posting! ALOT of great information that I will go over thoroughly.
This is not my first firearm just so everyone knows. Also I am a Veteran of the USN Seabees. So firearm training is something I have undergone. Albeit military style. Perhaps this is where I am confusing clip for mag?
My first personally owned firearm was a Hi-point 9mm. That was about 13 years ago. I fell on hard times and had to let that one go. Anyway compared to that Hi-point this Tanfoglio feels super tight and sleek. Maybe I am just remembering wrong but the Hi-point felt loose and sloppy compared to this Tanfoglio. I looked for another Hi-point at the dealership, even had the agent check the computer and see if they had one, so I could compare to two side by side. They didn't have any in stock though.
However I must admit I never bothered to learn much about firearms, except only what I was required to. So this time around I am trying to learn as much as I can. And I would like to start collecting. Also I plan on getting back into deer hunting. I did hunt a few years when I first moved to Maine but have since not been. I guess I never really committed fully. I never pulled a doe permit so I never took anything in the three years I did hunt. I at that time figured that I wanted to take a MONSTER moss back buck. Foolish me, I saw plenty of doe and had plenty of chances to take one but I felt like I wanted to be a "true" sportsman and hunter... Lol @ myself. Now that I have been here in Maine for almost 20 years and have had plenty of tastes of venison I feel like taking a doe is ok.
So I am starting to look for a good, affordable deer rifle. And I want to start gearing up for next years season. Rambling, I know. Sorry.
TY for the input everyone. And TY for sharing your time, knowledge and experiences with me. I will be the first to admit I don't know much about firearms.
Hi-points are interesting guns. that is what someone typically buys for home defense who does not want the destructive power of a shotgun but does not want or want to spend the money on a CCW type gun. While they are a cheap gun they are also a very well built gun for there price.. if you need it for in home protection and yu don't want to get heavy into the gun hobby its the gun to get.
Went out to our range with a friend and his Glock 40. Between the two we both agree that the Tanfoglio is the more accurate. Maybe it's the sight picture IDK but she fires straight and true. After about 300 rnds we can report no major problems. A couple of jams but nothing really bad.
So we are looking at ammo and sourcing it out and came across some aluminum and steel casing rnds along with the brass at Wally World. So my question is does anyone know what the differences between the 3 types of casing are? BTW we at this time are not reloading although we are collecting casings.
Also we are looking for some cheep, easy to make plinker targets.
Hi-points are interesting guns. that is what someone typically buys for home defense who does not want the destructive power of a shotgun but does not want or want to spend the money on a CCW type gun. While they are a cheap gun they are also a very well built gun for there price.. if you need it for in home protection and yu don't want to get heavy into the gun hobby its the gun to get.
Hi-points are crap. Buy a hammer to throw. I bought into that Hipoint nonsense and got one. It couldn't be made to shoot by anyone. Hipoints are educational guns. Buy one for the education that there is a minimum standard for operating machinery and Hipoints are below that minimum for pistols. The 9mm is, anyway.
I've shot steel and brass through my Glock 19 without issue. Supposedly you cannot reload steel but I have also read where that is a myth. The steel is harder than brass and allows a bit more fouling in the chamber because the round does not expand to completely seal the chamber like a brass case. This just makes the gun a bit dirtier. You will hear that steel uses dirtier burning powder because of this when actually it's not. It just gets into more places and needs better cleaning. The polymer coating on the outside of the steel case can also cause fouling of the chamber.
I've shot steel and brass through my Glock 19 without issue. Supposedly you cannot reload steel but I have also read where that is a myth. The steel is harder than brass and allows a bit more fouling in the chamber because the round does not expand to completely seal the chamber like a brass case. This just makes the gun a bit dirtier. You will hear that steel uses dirtier burning powder because of this when actually it's not. It just gets into more places and needs better cleaning. The polymer coating on the outside of the steel case can also cause fouling of the chamber.
Since steel is harder, it can damage your reloading dies, which aren't cheap.
Originally posted by skuzzbomer: The center of mass is low in your hand and the thing has a very tight action when new but the great thing is that you can get a barrel, return spring, and magazine set to re-chamber it in several different rounds.
Wouldn't you also need a different slide so that the barrel fit through it? I mean, a .45 barrel would be larger in O.D. than a 9 mm, so the slide might not have the clearance for it without drilling it out or replacing the slide for the larger caliber if replacing a 9 mm barrel with a .45 right? This is a serious question, because I don't know the answer and am genuinely curious.
I have this version (lol, about the only kind of handun we can privetley own in Canada) and apart from it being a little heavy (and all 1911's are) have had no issues with it in 3 years of ownership. Yeh, it IS a real Tanfoglio just set up for our legal restrictions. I do prefer my HK as it seems a bit of a better fit for my hand, and has a nicer (lighter) trigger pull but I have no plans of getting rid of the 1911 either, its fun to pull out every so often.
(If you want a handgun up here your choices are be a cop, be active duty millitary, or be a gun club member and rent one which, even though I love the Glock, DOES get spendy for blowing holes in paper)
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-18-2015).]
TY all for the words on casings. We are not reloading and are just shooting for fun anyway so were gonna try some steel casings at half the price of brass with the same grain.
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:
I have this version (lol, about the only kind of handun we can privetley own in Canada) and apart from it being a little heavy (and all 1911's are) have had no issues with it in 3 years of ownership. Yeh, it IS a real Tanfoglio just set up for our legal restrictions. I do prefer my HK as it seems a bit of a better fit for my hand, and has a nicer (lighter) trigger pull but I have no plans of getting rid of the 1911 either, its fun to pull out every so often.
(If you want a handgun up here your choices are be a cop, be active duty millitary, or be a gun club member and rent one which, even though I love the Glock, DOES get spendy for blowing holes in paper)
MEM you have a Tanfoglio? Cool so how do you like the action? Also any leads on spare mags? I have read and was told at point of purchase that Tanfoglio mags from the manufacturer are tough to get.
TY all for the words on casings. We are not reloading and are just shooting for fun anyway so were gonna try some steel casings at half the price of brass with the same grain. MEM you have a Tanfoglio? Cool so how do you like the action? Also any leads on spare mags? I have read and was told at point of purchase that Tanfoglio mags from the manufacturer are tough to get.
LMAO !! I dont think my mags will work in yours--re-read that Amazon link all the way to the bottom Mine is set up for .177 cal. Quality-wise I have no complaints with it, and have only had a couple of mis-feeds since I have had it. I actually picked that up to do exactly as steve does, have in my waistband when I went out on the property the last country place I had. Agressive muskrats were a bit of a problem and the bow was just to damn big, bulky and slow to "discourage" them from getting too close. This was enough. Had that not worked I would have gone to a .22 rifle but this proved enough.
Yea Skuzz that was the other mag I was looking at. But if you look at the butt plate on the mag in the pic in my OP it looks more like the one in this link. http://www.mec-gar.com/Magazines/CZ/MGCZ7516
What is the difference between the Witness and a CZ75 clone? Is my firearm even a Witness? How to do a safe internet serial # search?
Went out to our range with a friend and his Glock 40. Between the two we both agree that the Tanfoglio is the more accurate. Maybe it's the sight picture IDK but she fires straight and true. After about 300 rnds we can report no major problems. A couple of jams but nothing really bad.
So we are looking at ammo and sourcing it out and came across some aluminum and steel casing rnds along with the brass at Wally World. So my question is does anyone know what the differences between the 3 types of casing are? BTW we at this time are not reloading although we are collecting casings.
Also we are looking for some cheep, easy to make plinker targets.
Happy shooting PFF shooters!
Glocks and 40cals in general have a very distinct and pain in the neck kick to them... that's why I really don't care for them. I have them but I prefer 9mm
Hi-points are crap. Buy a hammer to throw. I bought into that Hipoint nonsense and got one. It couldn't be made to shoot by anyone. Hipoints are educational guns. Buy one for the education that there is a minimum standard for operating machinery and Hipoints are below that minimum for pistols. The 9mm is, anyway.
Agreed!
And I sure as Hell would not rely on one as any kind of defensive weapon, home or other wise. You know it is bad when the cops like it when it is the bad guy that has it. More then likely will jam or not shoot. Brother had sold one out of his Pawn shop. Guy ordered it new. 40 caliber. The thing actually blew apart before he shot 50 rounds threw it!! They don't take, sell or order anymore High point crap.
Glocks and 40cals in general have a very distinct and pain in the neck kick to them... that's why I really don't care for them. I have them but I prefer 9mm
Ya think ? When I DO rent one at the gun club I feel it for a full day afterwards.
Glocks and 40cals in general have a very distinct and pain in the neck kick to them... that's why I really don't care for them. I have them but I prefer 9mm
I shoot both Glocks (22 and 23) as well as a S&W PPS in 40 caliber a lot and do not have any real issue with the recoil. Maybe this is just some sort of perception issue but they have less recoil than my wife's 357 Colt Python.
I'm not a fan of witness. I may be biased though. Before I became a police officer I worked undercover transport, and some guys had some witnesses.after spending a little bit of time with them, seeing how they functioned on the range and witnessing a lot of malfunctions and failures, I ended up not forming a very favorable opinion of that manufacturer.however, that's where my experience with that particular make and model ends so I will reserved any further opinion on it and keep an open mind.
Hi-points are crap. Buy a hammer to throw. I bought into that Hipoint nonsense and got one. It couldn't be made to shoot by anyone. Hipoints are educational guns. Buy one for the education that there is a minimum standard for operating machinery and Hipoints are below that minimum for pistols. The 9mm is, anyway.
I always tell people the high points are a big joke among cops on the street. Their a constant weapon found because of how cheap they are. To be serious though, if you are going to carry something for self defense when it comes to guns, this is not a place to be cutting corners and being cheap buying generic brands like hi point, witness, etc...
you would be much better served to spend a couple hundred more and get yourself a quality name brand firearm.
You said in the first three hundred rounds at the range you had a "couple of jams not a big deal."
I'm sorry but that is a huge deal. If it is something you're going to carry for defense of yourself or that of a loved one, those few jams could be the difference between life and death. Unless you train on how to clear a class ll or class lll malfunction on a regular basis, and its second nature, a Jam could easily get you killed in the wrong situation.
My Glock 21 for example, which is a .45 ACP, I've carried since 2004 and hundreds of rounds through it. Not once has the weapon jammed a single time.
Now, everything has a potential to malfunction because after all, they are all machines. But there is a huge difference between quality with name brand manufacturers and the lower standard "B" classed generic weapons like witness, hi point, and so on.
if you want something cheap to take to the range and play around with that's one thing, but if its something you are going to seriously carry as a defense weapon, please do yourself a favor and spend a little bit of extra money and get something of quality.
when you're new to firearms, it's easy to be excited and get caught up in the cheaper weapons.. it's all new and exciting. People are so excited to get their first firearm, especially at a cheaper price, they don't consider the more complex and serious things when it comes to the reality of carrying a weapon and the many issues of self-defense.
I reload, the reason you don't use steel for reloading is because steel will not last for multiple reloads and the casing will fracture and fail. It's also much harder than brass, and will damage your reloading dies and equipment. It is true that you don't reload steel. It may be possible to get a reload out of a steel casing, but its not worthwhile or an economical thing to do. There would be no reason to do it. So, as a general rule yes, you do not reload steel. It's not that it can't be done, it's just that it shouldn't be done.
I always tell people the high points are a big joke among cops on the street. Their a constant weapon found because of how cheap they are. To be serious though, if you are going to carry something for self defense when it comes to guns, this is not a place to be cutting corners and being cheap buying generic brands like hi point, witness, etc...
you would be much better served to spend a couple hundred more and get yourself a quality name brand firearm.
You said in the first three hundred rounds at the range you had a "couple of jams not a big deal."
I'm sorry but that is a huge deal. If it is something you're going to carry for defense of yourself or that of a loved one, those few jams could be the difference between life and death. Unless you train on how to clear a class ll or class lll malfunction on a regular basis, and its second nature, a Jam could easily get you killed in the wrong situation.
My Glock 21 for example, which is a .45 ACP, I've carried since 2004 and hundreds of rounds through it. Not once has the weapon jammed a single time.
Now, everything has a potential to malfunction because after all, they are all machines. But there is a huge difference between quality with name brand manufacturers and the lower standard "B" classed generic weapons like witness, hi point, and so on.
if you want something cheap to take to the range and play around with that's one thing, but if its something you are going to seriously carry as a defense weapon, please do yourself a favor and spend a little bit of extra money and get something of quality.
when you're new to firearms, it's easy to be excited and get caught up in the cheaper weapons.. it's all new and exciting. People are so excited to get their first firearm, especially at a cheaper price, they don't consider the more complex and serious things when it comes to the reality of carrying a weapon and the many issues of self-defense.
Several very good points!
Too bad many are going to go , "Aw, what does he know".
it is true that most steel cased ammo runs pretty dirty, but that's because almost all the steel casing ammo out there is cheap Russian ammo, like wolf or Tula. The real problem with that ammo is consistency in quality control. Its really cheap, and if all you want to do is pull the trigger and send some rounds down range, it's OK for that. But if you're looking for consistency in something that is going to give you a decent grouping that is definitely not the ammo you want to practice with. If you're going to do any serious drills and practice to work on grouping, get a decent brass brand. Winchester white box target ammo is decent and not too bad on price. marksmanship, I would also not recommend that ammo as it is not going to give you consistent results.
I run at least 200 rounds of the ammo I plan to carry through any new gun I purchase before carrying. If there is any hiccup, I would need to find the problem (gun or ammo) and how to fix it. I run Hornady Custom through my LCP .380, Taurus 9MM Mil pro and Springfield XDS .45 with no problems. Price can be a little steep for ammo "break-in", but one has to decide what their life is worth.
Mine is set up for .177 cal. Quality-wise I have no complaints with it, and have only had a couple of mis-feeds since I have had it. I actually picked that up to do exactly as steve does, have in my waistband when I went out on the property the last country place I had. Agressive muskrats were a bit of a problem and the bow was just to damn big, bulky and slow to "discourage" them from getting too close. This was enough. Had that not worked I would have gone to a .22 rifle but this proved enough.
