Well, in my experience there are “biker bars” and then there are “biker bars”.
What I mean is, there are bars where people with motorcycles go to see and be seen, then there are little dives where if they don't know you, you are not going to be comfortable. Most everyone in the later is associated. If they fight, it's all in the family. They certainly don't need the attention.
I have seen fights in all kinds of bars, but the only one I was ever involved in was at a little dive that was not a biker bar at all.
Well, in my experience there are “biker bars” and then there are “biker bars”.
I have seen fights in all kinds of bars, but the only one I was ever involved in was at a little dive that was not a biker bar at all.
Ayup, the second kind you don't generally go in unless invited, when I was in my teens and early 20s when I road I had a few friends who knew people in the gangs that ran those bars. I know I never went to the same place twice after seeing what happened in those places. Real biker bars are not exactly the kind of place you bring the wife to, unless you want to get rid of her.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-19-2015).]
I parked my bright red GTO out back of one of those little dives once and I knew it was well protected. A conversation relayed to me, overheard in the parking lot was, "Don't mess with that car, man! It belongs to the *****."
Motorcycle gang shootout started with parking dispute
May 19, 6:55 PM (ET)
By EMILY SCHMALL
WACO, Texas (AP) — A deadly weekend shootout involving rival motorcycle gangs apparently began with a parking dispute and someone running over a gang member's foot, police said Tuesday.
Waco police Sgt. W. Patrick Swanton said an uninvited group appeared for Sunday's meeting of a loose confederation of biker gangs at a restaurant.
One man was injured when a vehicle rolled over his foot. That caused a dispute that continued inside the restaurant, where fighting and then shooting began, before the melee spilled back outside, Swanton said.
Authorities offered few details. It was not clear which gang was responsible for running over the biker's foot, or which gang the aggrieved biker belonged to.
When the shootout was over, nine people were dead and 18 wounded.
Police have said five biker gangs from across Texas had gathered in part to settle differences over turf.
Jimmy Graves, who described himself as an ambassador for the gang known as the Bandidos, disputed that claim, saying the groups had planned to discuss laws protecting motorcycle riders and other topics such as trademarks for club logos.
But he acknowledged that differences with other groups, such as the Cossacks, have been "simmering and brewing."
Another biker named Johnny Snyder said he was at the restaurant for a quarterly meeting to talk about legislative issues.
Snyder, a long-haul trucker, declined to describe what he saw inside the restaurant, saying he was only concerned with "not getting shot."
He is vice president of the Boozefighters Motorcycle Club in Waco, a group that Snyder says does charity events and family gatherings and is not a criminal gang.
About 50 weapons were confiscated, mostly knives and firearms, and Swanton said more than 100 weapons may be found once authorities are done analyzing the crime scene at the Twin Peaks restaurant, which is part of a national chain that features waitresses in revealing uniforms.
Preliminary autopsy results showed all nine of the dead were killed by gunshots. Many were hit in the head, neck, chest or torso. Most of the men were in their 40s, but they ranged in age from 27 to 65, according to reports released by a McLennan County justice of the peace.
Police have acknowledged firing on armed bikers, but it was unclear how many of the dead were shot by gang members and how many were shot by officers.
Of the injured, seven remain hospitalized. Swanton, who has been virtually the sole source of law enforcement information on the fight, described their conditions as stable.
He said the investigation is being hampered by witnesses who "are not being honest with us."
Police are concerned that the brawl will invite retaliation and more violence, Swanton said.
"We would encourage them to try to be a little peaceful and let the bloodshed stop," he said.
About 170 bikers have been charged with engaging in organized crime. Swanton said more arrests are likely.
Katie Rhoten, whose husband, Theron Rhoten, was taken into custody, said he told her by phone from jail that he and two other members of a motorcycle club called Vice Grip had just pulled up to the restaurant.
"They got off their bikes, and bullets were ricocheting all around them, so they ducked and ran for cover," she said in an interview.
When her husband, a mechanic from Austin, and the others went back to retrieve their motorcycles, they were detained by police.
"They were told they were being held for questioning and released, and they sat in the parking lot for three, four, five hours."
Then, she said, police "changed their mind and arrested everybody on the scene."
Officers took into custody all sorts of "nonviolent, noncriminal people. I mean they got the Bikers for Christ guys in there."
In a memo dated May 1, the Texas Department of Public Safety cautioned about increasing violence between the Bandidos and the Cossacks, Dallas TV station WFAA reported Monday.
The department's Joint Information Center bulletin said the tension could stem from Cossacks refusing to pay Bandidos dues for operating in Texas and for wearing a patch on their vest that claimed Texas as their turf without the Bandidos' approval.
"Traditionally, the Bandidos have been the dominant motorcycle club in Texas, and no other club is allowed to wear the Texas bar without their consent," the bulletin said, according to WFAA.
The bulletin said the FBI had received information that the Bandidos had discussed "going to war with Cossacks." It also outlined several recent incidents between the two groups, including one instance in March when about 10 Cossacks forced a Bandido to pull over along Interstate 35 near Waco and attacked him with "chains, batons and metal pipes before stealing his motorcycle," WFAA reported.
That same day, a group of Bandidos confronted a Cossack member fueling up at a truck stop in Palo Pinto County, west of Fort Worth, the bulletin said. When the Cossack member refused to remove the Texas patch from his vest, the Bandidos hit him in the head with a hammer and stole it.
The Department of Public Safety declined to release the bulletin to The Associated Press.
There are other documented instances of violence between the groups.
Last March, two members of the Bandidos were indicted in connection with the stabbing of two Cossacks at an Abilene steakhouse.
And in December, three Bandidos were arrested for a shooting at a Fort Worth motorcycle bar that left one dead and two others wounded. Fort Worth police said the victims were known members of a criminal motorcycle gang.
The Bandidos "constitute a growing criminal threat," the Justice Department said in a report on outlaw motorcycle gangs. The report said the Bandidos are involved in transporting and distributing cocaine and marijuana and in the production and distribution of methamphetamine.
Was told today that the "gangs" are blaming the Police and are bringing support in to take out every LEO they can find.
Not quotable because I don't know the source has the story straight but, I'm pretty sure the "gangs" don't want a war with the city, state and feds. That could get real ugly. But, who knows.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Many riders are blaming the police, but that happened after Ferguson and Baltimore, too. The stuff in Steve's post about the "Texas" rocker carries a lot of validity, the way I understand it.
For what it's worth, everyone is saying,"Don't ride in that area for a while."
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 05-19-2015).]
One of the members of the Valkyrie Club I belong to lives in that area. He's put on a charity BBQ for the last twenty years to benefit a children's charity. Every year he tells everyone to not wear anything that might resemble colors of patches that could reflect ownership of the area. He tells me it's gotten so bad that next year will be his last because of all the threats he and his wife have received. Who knows, this past event may be the last now.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?
My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug
Police have said five biker gangs from across Texas had gathered in part to settle differences over turf.
Jimmy Graves, who described himself as an ambassador for the gang known as the Bandidos, disputed that claim, saying the groups had planned to discuss laws protecting motorcycle riders and other topics such as trademarks for club logos.
Yeah, I'm sure that's what they were there for--and to figure out how to save the kittens and stop global warming and praise Bruce Jenner's gender transformation, and to..............
Yeah, I'm sure that's what they were there for--and to figure out how to save the kittens and stop global warming and praise Bruce Jenner's gender transformation, and to..............
Ms. Jenner killed a woman two months ago. Get over it. *More extreme sarcasm preceding*
Some more history. Story is a couple days old now, but I haven't seen much more details come out from anything other than LE spokesmen. Gut reaction is to Take half of what they say and commit it to trash, then pour salt over the rest. Anyone with a vested interest in the results of the investigation is liable to twist what actually happened for their own interests. That goes both ways,
Also, people in that world should know the established rules - never claim territory without consent of the local dominant club. That's just asking for trouble. If you want to represent your town, drop the diamond pretense or do it according to protocol. This discussion is, sadly, a frequent occurrence in certain circles. People need to study up on the history of why things are the way they are - before they get involved in a situation that was easily avoidable.
If I remember right, hey I am trying to remember a LONG time ago here when I was in high school back in the stone age and living in MA they kicked or tried to kick the angels out of Taxachusettes by making it illegal to wear their colors. Now that backfired for them then, the angels considered it a badge of honor for getting arrested in MA because they refused to not wear their colors.
I also remember taking a local bus one night and listening to a conversation between several older adults who were talking about the hells angels bike gang and that anyone who wore a leather jacket was a hells angel, talk about not knowing what they were talking about.
People are stupid and will believe anything.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-20-2015).]
Ms. Jenner killed a woman two months ago. Get over it. *More extreme sarcasm preceding*
Keep the lemmings moving now.
Well, lots of speculation in the news, and the clubs have a difficult job saying ahead of it. The newest rumor-- that they were meeting to find ways to help the elderly more safely cross the streets of cities in Texas, reverse the effects of honeybee colony collapse, take over the lucrative cash cow known as the Girl Scout Cookie business, and plant flowers and trees along the roadways of Texas were patently denied in a Bandito press release this morning. "There are lines, as self respecting motorcycle clubs, that even we, just won't cross"
Seriously tho, they gonna keep on, pizz off the wrong folks, and find themselves in a real war when the Illustrious Imperial Potentate of The Grand and Ancient Arabic Mystic Royal Order Of the Nobles of the Ali Baba Temple of the Shrine puts a green light out on the whole dang bunch. Don't mess with those guys in the fez hats. He may look like someone's paw paw, but he can bring the Wrath of Gawd Almighty down on ya at the blink of an eye and mobilize 500,000 followers, and probably bring 2 million of their Freemason backups. Get the kids off the streets, lock yur doors and git out of town----the ****'s goin down.
Click to show
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-20-2015).]
Jimmy Graves, who described himself as an ambassador for the gang known as the Bandidos, disputed that claim, saying the groups had planned to discuss laws protecting motorcycle riders and other topics such as trademarks for club logos.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
Yeah, I'm sure that's what they were there for--and to figure out how to save the kittens and stop global warming and praise Bruce Jenner's gender transformation, and to..............
Actually, that was the purpose of the meeting. The national meeting took place in Denver, one week earlier. One of the clubs was not part of the Texas meeting. You guess which one.
Honestly, one of the big problems I see with this whole mess is that 170 people have been arrested and detained with $1,000,000 bonds on organized crime charges, simply because they were present on the scene, including a few who arrived after the incident. The detainees include members of veteran and Christian based groups.
As riders, it would serve us well to stay aware of what has been going on in Australia over the last few years.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 05-20-2015).]
Yes, this is twisted. I too am reading reports of loved ones telling much different stories than our shielded protectors. A false accusation, $1,000,000 bond, and a corrupt legal system.
FYI, I have not, do not, and more than likely will not agree with law fully on this one.
Damage control is in full swing it seems. My god daughter's father was very much involved in Bandidos, before he and his wife split and he got custody. He was (by his own admission and outright bragging after a few beers) a pretty worthless piece of crap before the custody ruling, in and out of jail but left the club in mid 2000s, made a 180 turn and is a standup guy now, trading the bike in for horses and barrel racing with his daughter.
At this point, I am guessing the cops had reason to suspect trouble. Whether or not they over-reacted, or who killed who, I haven't got a clue. This picture speaks volumes.
At this point, I am guessing the cops had reason to suspect trouble. Whether or not they over-reacted, or who killed who, I haven't got a clue. This picture speaks volumes.
I've heard trigger happy cops referred to as cowboys. One of them is wearing cowboy boots. Is that a uniform? Are those full auto weapons?
Originally posted by dratts: I've heard trigger happy cops referred to as cowboys. One of them is wearing cowboy boots. Is that a uniform? Are those full auto weapons?
I take it you have never been to Texas? I think that is the standard issue for those guys down there them and the cowboy hats at least when I was there in the late 70s.
Steve
[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 05-20-2015).]
SCOTUS has ruled you can wear pretty much anything you want as far as logos, emblems or printing goes on your clothing and accessories as part of protected free speech. Evidently, the 1st amendment doesn't apply to motorcycle gangs, but no doubt, when their day in court rolls around, they will insist on getting their own full measure of constitutional rights. Watch out FFA boys and girls--the Bandidos say Texas is their "turf'.
Why do cops spread misinformation about guns? 7.62 is the biggest caliber they found? I doubt it. I know what he was trying to say for the media but it just screams ignorance to me.
Originally posted by williegoat: Honestly, one of the big problems I see with this whole mess is that 170 people have been arrested and detained with $1,000,000 bonds on organized crime charges, simply because they were present on the scene, including a few who arrived after the incident. The detainees include members of veteran and Christian based groups.
There have been statements this week from the Texas Confederation of Clubs & Independents, the National Coalition of Motorcyclists and NCOM Christian Unity in response to the Waco massacre.
They are unlikely to find the news exposure they deserve so The Aging Rebel is reprinting them here.
Texas COCI We are saddened by the tragic event that took place at the recent Texas Confederation of Clubs & Independents meeting location in Waco, Texas.
We as a community have worked very hard over the years to build a place of trust and collaboration no matter what you ride or whether you choose to wear a patch or are an independent in the our great State of Texas. We as a community hope the public will not judge all of us by the actions of those responsible for the senseless violence that unfolded in Waco.
We are steadfast as a community in representing bikers in a positive fashion. We protect our rights and freedoms at the State Capitol, we promote safety and awareness on our area streets and highways, we embrace charitable work year round improving the quality of life for those from our community in need as well as for other organizations.
We are confident that the public who already knows us because we are men, women, fathers, mothers, grand-parents, sons and daughters, professionals and veterans all committed to being productive contributors to society.
We will not let this tragic event tarnish all the good Texas Bikers have done and will continue to do for the community and all of those riders who enjoy experiencing the open road on two wheels.
NCOM The National Coalition of Motorcyclists and all of its local affiliates are deeply saddened by the incident that occurred on May 17, 2015, and are praying for those involved and their families. Immediately prior to the start of a Texas affiliate’s monthly meeting, a motorcycle club that was NOT a member of the Confederation of Clubs arrived with over 50 people and attacked members of the Confederation.
The National Coalition of Motorcyclists and its local affiliates are dedicated to peacefully promoting and protecting Constitutional rights, promoting fair treatment of its members by law enforcement, educating its members on current laws, open and peaceful communications between clubs, conflict mediation, and supporting various charitable endeavors. We are grieving.
NCOM Christian Unity On any given weekend, in a city, in any state of the union, groups of motorcyclists will be meeting in a restaurant or bar for a Confederation of Clubs meeting. The Goals of Confederation of Clubs are to bring patch holders together, communication between clubs, and a judicial coming together to protect our rights through the courts. They also work with local and state Motorcycle Rights Organizations and the National Coalition of Motorcyclists on legislative issues. Confederation of Clubs, have autonomous leadership, but have one thing in common; they all belong to the National Coalition of Motorcyclists or NCOM.
NCOM was founded 30 years ago as a coming together of diverse motorcycle groups and individuals. In the past 10 years, Christian groups and Independents have been included in NCOM and COCs. NCOM Christian Unity is very involved with our Motorcycle Resource teams through ministry to the spiritual and physical needs of the biker community which includes first aid needs as well as visiting hospitals and jails.
On Sunday, May 17, a meeting of the Confederation of Clubs was scheduled for the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco. The Cossacks MC and Scimitars, who are not a part of the Confederation, came to the COC meeting and an altercation began in the bathroom. Members of the Bandidos Motorcycle Club were in attendance as well as other clubs, motorcycle ministries and associations. As the altercation became a brawl and erupted outside Twin Peaks, SWAT teams and police were standing outside the restaurant on a tip that there would be a problem with the 1% clubs. It is unclear who opened fire first, but when all was said and done, there were 9 people dead and 18 injured. Over 170 motorcyclists have been and remain detained under state and now federal enforcement. Some of those bikers are of military groups, Christian groups, and family motorcycle groups. The detainees have had their motorcycles impounded.
At the time of this writing, we are waiting for anyone to be charged. Those who have concealed handgun permits and were legally carrying their handguns have been detained. It is said this was out of necessity to the open shooter status of the event. It is of great concern for us as part of the NCOM family to see the backlash by the mainstream media, targeting Bandidos MC with little reporting on the Cossacks MC; calling all those who have been detained as gang members; and the misinformation and speculation of citizens who have reacted as “experts.” All they are doing is speculating and riding a wave in regards to our biker community whom we love and pray for.
We at NCOM Christian Unity will continue to do our job. Our MRT members will be called upon to deal with issues surrounding this horrible event that seeks to black the eyes of the entire motorcycle community. We will minister to those whose families have lost a loved one, or been injured, serve the clubs who are grieving and yes, even visit those who will be imprisoned because that is what we do and that is what Jesus would do.
NCOM Christian Unity’s Bible verse is this – “How good and pleasant it is, that brothers should dwell in unity.” (Psalm 133:1) Please join with us in promoting unity in the biker community; not giving in to false reports or speculation and above all praying with us for the bikers affected by this tragic incident.
Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see....
Twin Peaks security video shows only one person firing gun during Waco biker gang shootout.... ...Most of the leather-clad patrons ran away from the shooting or ducked under tables to dodge violence, video showed. Some bikers tried to direct other people to safety.
As head of the Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents, Graves said the meeting was intended to be a peaceful gathering for bikers to learn about their rights, and said he has no idea yet how the fighting started, or who started it.
But in his role as a National Officer of the Bandidos, Graves strongly denies claims by police that biker gangs involved have been ordered to “kill anyone in uniform.”
“How long do you think the Bandidos motorcycle organization would last if we went out shooting at cops?” he questioned. “President Obama himself would send out the Air Force, the Army, the Marine Corp and everybody and take us out. There’s no way. We respect the police for doing their job.” http://kxan.com/2015/05/18/...rder-to-kill-police/
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 05-22-2015).]
Believe nothing you hear, and only half of what you see....
Twin Peaks security video shows only one person firing gun during Waco biker gang shootout.... ..
quote
Just one of the dozens of bikers inside a Texas restaurant during a wild gang shootout fired a gun, security video showed.
None of the nine surveillance video angles released to the Associated Press showed the parking lot, where the gunfire erupted after one member’s foot was run over, cops said.
A group of Houston-area motorcyclists is planning a peaceful protest in Waco Saturday, claiming police acted too hastily when they arrested about 170 bikers in the wake of a deadly melee earlier this week.
KPRC 2 News spoke with a few Houstonians planning the protest who identify themselves as "motorcycle enthusiasts." They say of the 170 people charged, some were arrested unfairly.
"There are some guilty people that need to answer for their actions absolutely, but the majority of those people are not criminals," Tony Lee said.
The point was the footage that was shown, contradicts the official statement. The police said the bikers didn't care that they were there. Running for cover and escorting patrons is a slightly different picture.
Twin Peaks security video shows only one person firing gun during Waco biker gang shootout....
is completely different than this:
quote
Twin Peaks security video shows only one person firing gun Inside the premises during Waco biker gang shootout
This is 3rd or 4th post I've seen today on the internet regarding that TP interior video, in which the person making the post inferred (by omission of facts-location) that only one shot was fired by a biker. Context is important.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 05-23-2015).]
We have to wait until all the evidence is made public. There is a lot of "circular reporting" going on right now. I have a theory, but I already passed on bad info at least once. I will be patient.
Still throwing out the mug shots of the "biker gang" arrests also.
Listen, I am not condoning the "melee", but from word one the law has been nothing but misleading to the public. Do I believe they found an AK? Yes, but as the mouthpiece of the law talks, his officers are the ones brandishing the fire power. Rip through the victim type stuff. And, as recent media history has proven, cops are bad, m'kay. *Some wayward sarcasm spread throughout.*
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 05-23-2015).]
