I also think alot of people waste alot more money than they used to pre-80s.
This.
How many people have a cell phone with unlimited data/text? What about cable or sat tv? Big screen tv? I know my expenses have gone up, but that is mainly because I have more "stuff" then I did before.
How many people have a cell phone with unlimited data/text? What about cable or sat tv? Big screen tv? I know my expenses have gone up, but that is mainly because I have more "stuff" then I did before.
Cell phone with prepaid unlimited plan 35 bucks, land line 65-75 bucks. Big screen tv $150 used. Back in the 80's a 20 inch might cost you around that used. Sat/Cable is a waste, Netflix streaming is 9 dollars a month and a lot of people have went that route. In the 80's computers and TVs were pretty expensive, the original NES was 200 dollars in 80's dollars. People did the Columbia music thing, bought plenty of tapes and 8 tracks. Home stereos were popular, some of them running 400 dollars in 80s money. Cars, motorcycles, and boats were still toys. We have cheap tech now, that is the only difference I really see.
Correction TV's were much more expensive in the 80's-90's. Flat screens are a bargain and are given away and sold for song when outdated. So its hard to judge your neighbor on welfare with the 35" flat screen, that he bought off someone for 50 bucks because it was the cheapest thing he could get. Even new they come down to 200-300 dollars. Your neighbor made some one time cash and decided to buy the family a TV. That isn't why he is poor.
Cell phone with prepaid unlimited plan 35 bucks, land line 65-75 bucks. Big screen tv $150 used. Sat/Cable is a waste, Netflix streaming is 9 dollars a month and a lot of people have went that route.
That is all a waste if you cant eat or pay for a roof though. Any entertainment is. Landline $10 a mo and free over the air tv was it years ago, not good enough for people anymore.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 10-29-2015).]
While I will definitely agree that the economy has gotten worse over the past half-decade... I will say that I question the logic for this.
What exactly are we talking about $30k or less? Does it consider where people live?
A person making $30,000 a year and living in Brookfield, Missouri is king of the town... but a person making $30,000 a year in downtown Miami is at best... a day laborer that comes in on a pickup.
Originally posted by dennis_6:I am not speaking personally, I am not in a economic depressed area, though I have lived in them in the past, and yes it was hard to escape.
1. If you have kids, and you move to something sub par, or live in a car etc. Children services can and will take your kids, so moving for people with kids to much more expensive places is probably out of the question. 2. A lot of the places have family living 3 generations together, people typically move in with family. Here in the USA, that isn't accepted a lot of the time.
Pride is a terrible enemy. My brother has a hose near Stockton, down the street from a public housing project. The lady across took back in her ex-prisoner son and he has all the poopy people hanging around staring into my brother garage and house. Cars stolen, house burglarized, confronted, and threatened. My sister, my mom, and me have offered to let him stay, all closer to his work than his house. But, he stays, stressed and unable to sleep. Many people want to help other that are trying to better their lives. I have done it several times and in many different ways, sometimes at a fair expense. There no reason to not call on family and friends in times of need, except pride. During my term of long term unemployment, I was desperate to work but, far from desperate. My wife still had a very good job, our house had a crazy amount of equity, my retirement account, with more than 15 year of my annual wages. I did not call on family or friends for housing but, I did eventually get help from a friend to find a job.
That is all a waste if you cant eat or pay for a roof though. Any entertainment is. Landline $10 a mo and free over the air tv was it years ago, not good enough for people anymore.
Last place I lived, land line was 65 dollars a month, don't know what it is here. I have had multiple employers demand I have a cell phone, or look for work elsewhere, in case they need me at work. Of course they don't pay for the phone. However, once again not referring to my own problems. Just was surrounded by poverty and have seen how people struggle. Working full time in a area that is mostly min wage, well they had a salt mine but they only worked people 6 months a year, and encouraged them to go on unemployment for the rest of the time. I had one of the better paying jobs, but it was a joke compared to where I live now, and the cost of living really isn't that different.
People worked chicken farms and pig slaughter yards for 8 dollars a hour, full time. Small retail stores in town paid min wage, nearest town that paid better was 35 mins, and you might get 9-10 dollars a hour if you drove, but it wasn't really worth the gas and wear and tear on your vehicle.
So ma and pa worked there and brought in a combined 16 dollars or so a hour, they had to pay child care so knock it down to a combined 7-10 dollars a hour. They both had cell phones, because employers might need to call you in and yes they expected that at that wage. I worked a government job, so I was paid better, but not a whole lot better, I learned to be frugal. I drove beaters, that were for the most part mechanically stable. Got netflix for the kids, it was far cheaper than cable. Internet was and was not a requirement. It paid for its self when I would have to had drove 3 hrs or so to pick something up I could order online, and it paid for itself when it came to looking up repairs. Cell phones were required, in my job. Utilities always seemed to be around 300 a month or so. Bought food from Aldis which was 30 miles away, so I tried to get enough for a month or so. My wife stayed home, it wasn't worth her working, most of the money would have went to child care. Health insurance was about 400 dollars a month, and it didn't really cover anything. But, would save your bacon in a serious pickle, one of those policies that don't cover your doctor's visits or your meds, but will cover 80 percent of a ER visit.
I watched my neighbors struggle, terribly struggle. Some of it was their fault, they bought a reliable vehicle with payments and didn't learn to work on cars like I did. They bought better homes, and had that payment. They had trouble buying food, and keeping the lights on, or keeping gas in the tank. This is working full time with both parents working.
Having been there and done that, I have a different perspective, maybe it was because I have been surrounded by poverty. None of the people were druggies, drunks, or lazy.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-29-2015).]
I grew up poor too on a farm. I have both perspectives too. The thing is, the fix for poor choices and lazimess is to make better choices and not be lazy. The fix for working hard and still not making it is moving, or what, forced raising of the minimum wage? Forced rasing of the minimum wage has been argued before.
I grew up poor too on a farm. I have both perspectives too. The thing is, the fix for poor choices and lazimess is to make better choices and not be lazy. The fix for working hard and still not making it is moving, or what, forced raising of the minimum wage? Forced rasing of the minimum wage has been argued before.
Some people will not move away from family. The fix isn't raising the min wage (despite thinking it is a little low), the fix is to end outsourcing, green card abuse, and illegal workers. That would put it back in a workers market, and new industry would be developed. Mc Donalds in metros pays above min wage, because of competition for workers, there is hardly any competition for workers anywhere, anymore, maybe in a few specialized fields, but obviously if everyone did those jobs, there would not be enough openings.
Small town America will be fine, tho the towns may be in newer or just different locations.
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You can either find a way, or you can find a reason not to It is not hard to figure out which of the above, that way too many will do nowadays. The "entitled" generations. The "wah wah wah" generations. The "Oh poor poor me" generations. The "OH, if [fill in the blank] would just [fill in the blank] then I, wouldn't have to [fill in the blank] generation will always try to blame someone else, anyone else, everyone else but themselves--always. This country doesn't need a new fiscal policy or new tax structure, or a new industry--it just needs a new people.
Stop making excuses and looking for excuses NOT to be proactive in finding and accomplishing personal economic stability and security.
Your proposal would pretty much kill small town America.
Economic depression kills towns. Once that happens staying doesn't fix the problem if nothing else changes. New small towns flourish where economic conditions are more favorable. That has been true ever since man stopped being a hunter-gatherer and started forming communities.
Staying in the Dust Bowl wouldn't have ended the drought. Staying in Allentown wouldn't have revived the steel mills. Staying in Detroit wouldn't have sold more cars.
This nation was founded by people who left everything behind to go someplace new. Countless immigrants, legal or otherwise, find a way to do it every day to come here.
Yep, every single day, someone does it. That's all lost on many of the American people in this era tho. They want--nay...expect/demand, the jobs and fiscal security to come to them. "I, shouldn't HAVE to move" is what they will defiantly say, as they open their last pack of ramen noodles..
I was fairly lucky, able to move as need be, tho twice, it meant selling everything I owned except the clothes on my back and my vehicle, pack the kids in the car and start anew in a different locale. My father did the same thing, selling everything, left the little farm community in extreme NE Texas and moved 500 miles down to Baytown where the oil refineries were providing jobs in their post war expansions. 20 years before that, he was in a CCC camp out in Colorado, skinning the bark off fir trees for $30/month, $25 of which went back to his family in Texas. There have been many times in this country where Americans would gladly do whatever was needed--this current time just isn't one of them--tho it isn't really the time that changed--it's the 'people'.
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Originally posted by Formula88:
Economic depression kills towns. Once that happens staying doesn't fix the problem if nothing else changes. New small towns flourish where economic conditions are more favorable. That has been true ever since man stopped being a hunter-gatherer and started forming communities.
Staying in the Dust Bowl wouldn't have ended the drought. Staying in Allentown wouldn't have revived the steel mills. Staying in Detroit wouldn't have sold more cars.
This nation was founded by people who left everything behind to go someplace new. Countless immigrants, legal or otherwise, find a way to do it every day to come here.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-30-2015).]
Small town America will be fine, tho the towns may be in newer or just different locations. Stop making excuses and looking for excuses NOT to be proactive in finding and accomplishing personal economic stability and security.
I wasn't speaking of myself, I wasn't working for min wage, I was working almost double that in a government job. I did move, and am not in a economically depressed area anymore and am even better off now. I was speaking of people who lived in my former town, that will always suffer, because they will not leave family and honestly the entire state is a depressed area, though some areas pay a little better. I can only think of two places in that state where wages are par with the nation.
I guess I can see the point, I chased jobs all over the country. On the other hand we are talking mass migration, because there are a lot of economically depressed areas right now.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-31-2015).]
Economic depression kills towns. Once that happens staying doesn't fix the problem if nothing else changes. New small towns flourish where economic conditions are more favorable. That has been true ever since man stopped being a hunter-gatherer and started forming communities.
This nation was founded by people who left everything behind to go someplace new. Countless immigrants, legal or otherwise, find a way to do it every day to come here.
That's great,, so you move, with no money, most likely no car.. so you can't live in that, and your job search will want an address.. a real one.. it isn't 1900 anymore,, or the 50's or hell even the 90's that you could fudge a job app. not now..
ever go looking for work,,,?? in this "recovery".. sure there are some job's but the employer can be mighty picky as they're many in that field looking for work.. many job's say things like this Help wanted.. cnc operator , must have 3 years prior experience, so, learning on the job is out, training as you go is out.. tons of help wanted like this.. very few say , help wanted, will train.. why because there is no shortage of people that are cnc operators looking for work.. and that is just one example... if, you have a green card, or illegal you can go to anytown and get hired on the spot at any landscape company, or construction job.. if you are a hard worker born here.. tuff shiity..
Mike Rowe had said for years that there is tons of unfilled good paying jobs in this country, and he is right, but he left out one important part.. those opening are looking for people to fill them that have years experience doing it, or something close to it..
first baby boomers allowed outsourcing jobs so their retirement accounts and investments would make a killing, and then online shopping is killing brick and mortar retail jobs.. fast food will be next with a touch screen.. jobs are gone or going bye bye.. but some, will say. staying in a place with no jobs and not moving is stupid, and any reason is a poor excuse . but they never look around and see that there isn't any jobs anywhere.. that a guy/gal that was working a min wage slow death job can be hired and train/learn on the job.. EVEN THE MILITARY isn't HIRING.. They are forcing people out early..
I'm really sick of those of the age that looked the other way as jobs left.. and have a nice nest egg because of it, telling others that, suck it up buttercup and figure it out.. I am lucky I have a job, and am going on 28 years at the same place.. I could have left many times, for more money.. and glad I didn't.. as every place I moonlighted that offered a full time gig, and more money than I make at the place I'm at.. have closed up.. or laid off tons of people.. sure it have been great to not have to work holiday's and week ends, and have a m-f job.. that paid more to boot.. but I'm still chugging away and they got pink slips..
I used the CNC operator as an example.. as I'd love to learn how to do that, and machining, and have looked into jobs at places that have had a help wanted sign up for a while.. they always want to fill it with someone that is drop in ready to go.. not someone they'd have to train.. Kids going to the local vo tec, are getting out of school and finding they can't get a job, because the construction companies want illegals or work visa/ green card holders.. as they can take advantage of them.. where the trained vo tec grad.. will ask why no check this week, or the check bounced.. or no I'm not working 80 hours and you pay me 40...
want to fix this mess.. stop work visa's stop allowing employers to hire illegals.. stop filling college seats with students from other countries.. stop supporting companies that send jobs out of the country.. Tank their stocks when they do this.. instead of buying more..
many that are retired and those that will soon, need to look in the mirror, instead of telling those looking for work, tuff..
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 10-31-2015).]
Originally posted by dennis_6:Your proposal would pretty much kill small town America.
That busted me up with LOL. There are plenty of ghost towns, always will be, and always should be. If a place becomes unlivable or a disadvantage to some or all of its' populace, it should be abandoned. If a town is cheap enough, tear it down and farm the land. Fence it in and raise more valuable critters. Dig a hole and hide from what fear, (well, except floods).
To raise the minimum wage to poverty wages in San Francisco, would be luxury living wages in those small, need to be abandoned, towns. I find the Federally applied rules for taxing and paying very unfair because they are not based on where people live. So, the logical next step is to move to where they would get you the most advantage. Leaving California would leave me 10+ additional % of my earned money to spend. I have to have this thought when doing my life math.
If I was retired military, I would definitely want to move to inexpensive rural America.
[This message has been edited by FriendGregory (edited 10-31-2015).]
That's great,, so you move, with no money, most likely no car.. so you can't live in that, and your job search will want an address.. a real one.. it isn't 1900 anymore,, or the 50's or hell even the 90's that you could fudge a job app. not now..
That is a very valid argument. Quite moderate one at that, seems to be to extremes here and in the real world. One stating we should pay people for just existing, and two stating if you are poor its your own fault, and you deserve your lot. I have seen people manipulate the system, and they deserved their poverty, I have seen people work their hands to the bone and not be able to escape. It is hard to break out of your income bracket anymore, for the reasons you described.
That's great,, so you move, with no money, most likely no car.. so you can't live in that, and your job search will want an address.. a real one.. it isn't 1900 anymore,, or the 50's or hell even the 90's that you could fudge a job app. not now..
Youi're right. It can't be done. All you can hope for is to panhandle for enough money to afford a bullet to put yourself out of your misery.
Youi're right. It can't be done. All you can hope for is to panhandle for enough money to afford a bullet to put yourself out of your misery.
yes I am right, there isn't any town usa that is hiring , good paying jobs without the hopeful to be employed already have done the job.. you can't get experience, when thee opening require it.. it's a catch 22.. sure if there is a will there is a way, but moving to another area isn't it..
This home is gorgeous. It's not huge by any stretch of the word, but I bet that house probably looked really nice when it was brand new back in the 50s. I'm sure this is in a horrible area, probably the place went down hill when the trains stopped coming by... but if this is in an area that's seeing rejuvenation, this would be a really nice home to restore.
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Originally posted by dennis_6:
Correction TV's were much more expensive in the 80's-90's. Flat screens are a bargain and are given away and sold for song when outdated.
Yup, I bought my Sony 51" rear projection TV, HD-Ready, from BestBuy back in 2004, for $1,299. AND... that was an amazing deal because someone had screwed up the price tag. The price was actually $1,599 but they went ahead and sold it to me for that, and quickly fixed the price tag.
I just bought a new 55" Polaroid LED IPS TV about 8 months ago for $490.
yes I am right, there isn't any town usa that is hiring , good paying jobs without the hopeful to be employed already have done the job.. you can't get experience, when thee opening require it.. it's a catch 22.. sure if there is a will there is a way, but moving to another area isn't it..
Ok. We agree there are no jobs, you can't get one and you can't move. Now what?
So you were disagreeing with me so you could essentially say the same thing, "you find a way." But now it was your idea.
my rant was toward another members post that a person has no excuse to stay somewhere if they can't find a good job, or better themselves, I don't understand why you feel what you posted.
want to fix this mess.. stop work visa's stop allowing employers to hire illegals.. stop filling college seats with students from other countries.. stop supporting companies that send jobs out of the country.. Tank their stocks when they do this.. instead of buying more..
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Yup, I bought my Sony 51" rear projection TV, HD-Ready, from BestBuy back in 2004, for $1,299. AND... that was an amazing deal because someone had screwed up the price tag. The price was actually $1,599 but they went ahead and sold it to me for that, and quickly fixed the price tag.
I just bought a new 55" Polaroid LED IPS TV about 8 months ago for $490.
Homes like that all over Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma. Literally falling apart, some of them because people did leave, to places that will pay more than minimum wage for back breaking work. Some because they stay in the areas of depression. In those regions farm land sells for 8-9k a acre, but homes can be had for under 30k all day long.
