I have a probably 10 year old welder that I have never had a problem with but the other day when I went to weld some truck body replacement panels and when I turned the welder down below 3 or 4 the wire feeder stops turning, it's not the liner that is clogged, I checked to make sure by just using the welder with the wire roller flipped out of the roller cam.

the welder is in my unheated shop all the time unless I am in there working so humidity may be my problem because of the feed motor wires may be corroded from the temp humidity.

Or maybe it is because I never used it that low and in that case it could be the wire speed control, anyone have any ideas how to test these parts individually? The wire feed control and the wirer feed motor?

Steve

------------------
Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

My spool was slipping on the spindle.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: My spool was slipping on the spindle.

don't think so as it only happens when on the lowest settings, but will check it in the morning.

Thanks, never thought of that one.

Steve

Is it the arc volts you're turning down or the wire speed?

I'm going to assume this is a gas unit and not a flux wire unit.

See if the feed wheel is slipping on the wire. There is a tension adjustment on the wheel. When the wire feed is fast, friction helps feed the wire but when the wire feed is set slower the wheel will slip causing the wire to stick.

Also, check the spool tension. If the spool tension is too tight the feed wheel will slip on the wire and not be able to feed it.

[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 01-07-2016).]

quote Originally posted by Thunderstruck GT: See if the feed wheel is slipping on the wire. There is a tension adjustment on the wheel. When the wire feed is fast, friction helps feed the wire but when the wire feed is set slower the wheel will slip causing the wire to stick. Also, check the spool tension. If the spool tension is too tight the feed wheel will slip on the wire and not be able to feed it.

Yeah, that, only eloquent!

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-07-2016).]

OK maybe I didn't explain it right, it is the wire feed motor with no tension on it, I pulled the wire tension wheel off the wire it self and pull the trigger and once I get down below 3 or 4 the Drive wheel below the wire is the one that is not moving, the one on the bottom, the one on the top and even the wire is not even touching the feed roller so it isn't a tension problem , I don't think. I could be wrong, it may not be the first time.

it is a wire feed with gas welder though I can use it for flux core I have never. I have narrowed it down to the drive motor, roller, now with boonies thoughts, or the wire feed speed adjusting knob, yes it has knobs not switches.

So to clarify,



That is not my welder, just the best picture of the way it is on my machine.

No wire is touching the roller, the only time it is a problem is on the lowest wire speeds, the rest of the time it works fine. The roller in question is number 5 in that photo

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-08-2016).]

Steve, it sounds like the reostat for wire speed is corroded from not being used in those settings, you might try turning the knob back and forth a few times to clean up the contacts.

Joe

quote Originally posted by motoracer838: Steve, it sounds like the reostat for wire speed is corroded from not being used in those settings, you might try turning the knob back and forth a few times to clean up the contacts. Joe

That is what I was thinking, I did that, move it a few times but who knows, maybe not enough times to clean it. Will try that again also in the morning. But that doesn't mean it is the problem, if it is I will be happy as hell, that is probably a lot cheaper than a motor. But not as cheep as the drive wheel, ether of those I would be happy with, now the motor that is expensive.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-07-2016).]

If the motor is working at the higher wire feed rates, its something with the switch itself, another possibility is a problem with the circuit board, I have a Hobart Betamig 170 that has had some "issues" with that, but my guess is that yours is the switch, that will be on of the least expensive of fixes.

Joe

Thanks Joe now all I have to do is have the time to look at it again, I almost took the shop down today, trying to get my yard plow in the shop, NO BRAKES

Tomorrow is another day.

quote Originally posted by motoracer838: Steve, it sounds like the reostat for wire speed is corroded from not being used in those settings, you might try turning the knob back and forth a few times to clean up the contacts. Joe

The speed control on that welder is not serviceable nor does it have a mechanical rheostat.

The unit is controlled by circuit board. That is is spinning at all tells me it is likely the motor that is the problem. They are cheap and easy to replace when they get weak.
Couple nuts and two slip on wires but they are unmarked for polarity so mark them or you may reinstall and have it go backwards.

Not sure Pokey, I haven't taken that side off the welder yet.



This is the wiring diagram, not that it does me any good, I keep forgetting what line I am following.

this is a picture I had on the computer of the front of mine, notice the knobs and switch are on the left side so it could be a board or rheostat soldered to a board, I forgot all about it today after almost running into the shop instead of just driving in. Tough to stop a vehicle with no brakes.



It may be a rheostat type control soldered to a board, it is that old. I said it was 10 years old but it maybe older, will have to look at the label tomorrow for its exact manufacture date. But it isn't one of the newer models, I don't think, first I need to figure out what is wrong with the dam plow trucks brakes but all ideas are helpful as they give me a place to start my search.

I really don't want to send it in, the local place I bought it from charges $75 an hour. + parts.

Thanks for all the ideas so far.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-08-2016).]

Pretty sure that is a solid state speed control dial.

That model is circuit board speed control. If it is working at higher settings it is a good bet it isn't a speed control problem.
If it is a board problem they can be replaced easy enough but they are pricey.
I just replaced a bad diode on mine that killed the speed control completely.
Lucky I found it or I would have had to replace the board. Cost a couple bucks and a bit of solder.

Check the resistance on the motor or use a cordless drill variable speed trigger control and test the motor on a bench.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Pretty sure that is a solid state speed control dial. That model is circuit board speed control. If it is working at higher settings it is a good bet it isn't a speed control problem. If it is a board problem they can be replaced easy enough but they are pricey. I just replaced a bad diode on mine that killed the speed control completely. Lucky I found it or I would have had to replace the board. Cost a couple bucks and a bit of solder. Check the resistance on the motor or use a cordless drill variable speed trigger control and test the motor on a bench.

I HATE technology, WTF is wrong with the old way it worked on every other welder I have had or even run on jobsites. This one will be expensive if it is on a board, it was the top of the line highest powered welder they made on the small size back then and to add insult to injury it has infinite power settings on the heat knob, no detents and can be changed on the fly, welding. I didn't want a monster that would take up enough space in the shop to put a couch in. I also wanted some portability, the big ones are a little tough to put in a truck even with ramps with a bad back, even on all the drugs I am on.

Pain in the ass, I hate electrical problems, I would rather pound my balls flat than hunt down an electrical problem.

So how do I test the switch if it is the switch alone or if its the board ?

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-08-2016).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I HATE technology, WTF is wrong with the old way it worked on every other welder I have had or even run on jobsites. This one will be expensive if it is on a board, it was the top of the line highest powered welder they made on the small size back then and to add insult to injury it has infinite power settings on the heat knob, no detents and can be changed on the fly, welding. I didn't want a monster that would take up enough space in the shop to put a couch in. I also wanted some portability, the big ones are a little tough to put in a truck even with ramps with a bad back, even on all the drugs I am on. Pain in the ass, I hate electrical problems, I would rather pound my balls flat than hunt down an electrical problem. So how do I test the switch if it is the switch alone or if its the board ? Steve

Are you morally opposed to checking the motor out first?

Not morally opposed just think it will be the last thing I check or should say test, I know better than to throw parts at it. I looked at motors on fleabay and those are just used ones and the ones I found were all over $200 hoping that the switch or drive wheel may be the problem.

That side of the welder I have never had open and there is a wall between that side and the other the controls are on, hey I never had a reason before this. I haven't even pulled the welder out of the rack it is on with my plasma cutter and assorted welding tools, grinder and such in years and in order to pull the welder out to get at that side of it I have to roll the rack out into the shop. Not a lot of room in there as the plow truck in in there now.

Something tells me I will be spending the day in the shop tomorrow to make sure I have brakes in the truck before we get some real snow falls, so far it has just been a few 6" storms so we are due a good old nor'easter with a couple of feet or more and I need that plow truck running, and most of all stopping when I want it to.

I wouldn't know how to do that, this is a 220 unit and I have no idea how to test the motor alone? Hints

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-08-2016).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I almost took the shop down today, trying to get my yard plow in the shop, NO BRAKES Tomorrow is another day.

Tomorrow would be a great opportunity to not weld and put some brakes on that frigg'n truck before you don't have a shop to weld in. Think about it.

------------------
Ron

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug

The motor is DC not AC 220. Lincoln sells it for about 45 bucks.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: The motor is DC not AC 220. Lincoln sells it for about 45 bucks.

I couldn't find it in the manual or on their site as a part I could buy, where did you find it?

Steve

quote Originally posted by blackrams: Tomorrow would be a great opportunity to not weld and put some brakes on that frigg'n truck before you don't have a shop to weld in. Think about it.

Ya Think !

Steve

The grease in the motor gearbox on mine didn't appreciate being exposed to sub-zero temps, all the oil suspended in the grease leaked out and left the gearbox full of thick/stiff crap, and it drew too much current and fried the circuit board. Different brand, mind you...

But, yeah, I'd check the motor/gearbox, and check the output of the speed circuitry to the motor...if the gearbox is stiff, it might be enough to stall the motor at lower speeds. Or there is a corrosion in the connections along the way, and it takes a certain voltage to overcome it. Or, finally, yes, the rheostat has gone bad...it's probably a pulse-width modulation circuit that uses a small rheostat as input to tell it how much power to put out, rather then a simple big rheostat that directly controls the motor by adjusting the resistance getting to it. There are dirt cheap PWM boards on ebay that would probably be suitable as a replacement...

Ah the weekend crew has arrived, with some new info, thanks will look into that, after I fix the brakes on the dam plow truck.

Steve

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Ah the weekend crew has arrived, with some new info, thanks will look into that, after I fix the brakes on the dam plow truck. Steve

Lincoln no longer sells the motor separate from the gear box. I just checked.

But!!!!!!

You don't read for **** .

Test the one you have first. Just test it god damn it!!

It is no ac. It is DC 24 vac max speed Variable. Use a battery and find a trigger from an old broken cordless drill to use as a variable trigger switch.

If the motor spins but not at lower speeds it may just need to be cleaned..
I could be something else but this is most likely and the easiest.

To check the output of the board to the motor use the meter set to 200 not 20 as shown and turn selector up and down to read the DC volts.
IF they go from zero to 24 then it isn't the board of the or the dial.
Connect to the two wires that connect to the motor via flat terminals. They just pull off and push on.


To test the dial use the ohm meter and connect to the two wires coming off the dial. Roll dial up and down and read resistance.

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[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 01-09-2016).]

It's much easier to just guess. Testing is harder--guessing is effortless.

Harbor freight will order parts for you. they have a welder that you can probably modify to fit in your lincoln.
The pdf show the parts and to me they look feasible to fit with a little adaptation.


HF
Name 180 Amp-DC, 240 Volt, MIG/Flux Cored Welder
SKU 68886
Brand Chicago Electric Welding

http://manuals.harborfreigh...8000-68999/68886.pdf

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: You don't read for **** . Test the one you have first. Just test it god damn it!! It is no ac. It is DC 24 vac max speed Variable. Use a battery and find a trigger from an old broken cordless drill to use as a variable trigger switch. If the motor spins but not at lower speeds it may just need to be cleaned.. I could be something else but this is most likely and the easiest. To check the output of the board to the motor use the meter set to 200 not 20 as shown and turn selector up and down to read the DC volts. IF they go from zero to 24 then it isn't the board of the or the dial. Connect to the two wires that connect to the motor via flat terminals. They just pull off and push on. [

You are right Pokey I don't remember sht I read or say or even sometimes have trouble finishing a sentence. one of the reasons I want it in writing on what to check, even if I can't remember it after reading it I can reread it. My memory is shot and getting worse as time progresses. remember Pokey I have short term memory loss since the stroke and it seams to be getting worse to the point of having to read things several times or in such short parts that it is literally a pain in the ass to try and fix anything, hell I can't remember how to change a master cylinder for the life of me and I have done it litteraly dozens of times on dozens if not hundreds of vehicles.

Don't you find it unusual that I write something's a couple of times in a single post? STML and even if I do proof read what I write I forget that I said it already. I have gotten better at catching those though because I do now proof read my posts, but like I said,

I can't remember sht anymore !

I will be talking to Melanie and just forget what I was talking about in mid sentence. Fun, Fun, Fun !

I did however say I wanted ideas on what it could be and how to test those parts or what to look for, that is so I can print this thread out and go back to it in the shop. Hell Lincoln doesn't even sell my model anymore, they do however sell just the feed motor drive system that was if I remember new over 300 bucks, hell I only paid 800 for it brand new. One thing I have to know before replacing anything is it the right size, speed to work in my welder so all the questions and even repeated questions.

The latest version of my welder is this one,

http://www.eastwood.com/eas...der-lew-k2698-1.html

I bought this unit before my stroke in '03 and wanted portability to be able to just get up and go, throw the welder and extension cord in the bed of the truck and help a friend, if need be I could also throw my generator in the back and go out into a field and fix something.

http://parts.lincolnelectri..._PART_CODE=9sl7801-1

So $175 for the unit and the gear box comes with it. you can't buy the motor alone, so I need to find the time and remember to look at it before I start throwing money at this problem, I know all about testing parts just don't know how to test these parts and like others have said it may very well be grease in the motor has seized/hardened, hey it has sat in my un heated shop for at least 10 winters here in Maine where temps can get way down below zero for weeks on end at times. Could I possibly find just the motor from another place, sure but I want it to be the right part that will match up to mine, meaning I don't want it to run to fast or to slow, or to only last a year.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 01-09-2016).]