quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: Christ Cliff how would we know what the sensor bots consider out of line, we have many picture threads that have pictures of younger women in them, think Girls without Fiero's thread. Some of those girls looked a lot younger than they were. Does the thread have to talk about the pedo**** thing? or just have picture of young girls in it? Really am trying to get a handle on this PC BS google is doing. it is pure and simple censorship on a very wide scale with a lot of leeway to them and little for us to go by as to what would put us in their sights. Steve

Steve, the posting rules for PFF are pretty clear and go a long ways toward preventing this problem, but there have always been some that ignored them.
Read the following post, and follow the link in it for google's definition.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/096651.html#p34

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Both words and images. Did you ever right click on an image anywhere on the web (includng at PFF) and see the option to "Search google for image"? The search engine isn't just looking for that file name, it's looking for that image, and any similar to it. That search brings up all links to images similar and exactly like it, regardless of file name or test description/caption. If Google offers that little option to the general public, I suspect their own ability to search out "offensive" images is even more powerful.

Yup, pictures are just as bad. Google has algorithms that analyses images.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: You may be on to something, but I have to wonder if a banned member or maybe multiple ones went to Google out of spite. This forum, at its worse is disney land compared to some of the others Google allows advertising on.

might be where the forum is hosted, The hosting country thoughts on having opinions on muslums and talking freely about it, isn't the same as the USA and CANADA..
Netherlands seems to take issue with picking on that group as a whole..
nevermind google questioning ad's for companies on this side of the pond on a forum on the other side..

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Its more than likely keying off words not links or pictures. Not saying that a thread isn't flagged then someone reviews the links. But the bot is looking for key words then flags the site. Perhaps they are just not generating any revenue from the ads and this is how they cut it. When was the last time anyone clicked one of the ads? I never saw them because my ad blocker was always turned on. I don't normally click on ads because I don't buy things on line. Besides the ads that do populate the correct content are not something I would buy. Most of the time they are generated after I purchased something.

Another good point with those ads...I never bother with them since I seldom buy online, and when I do it is someplace where I can order online and pick-up in store, and THOSE types of ads never show up.

We all know by now, (or should know anyway) that most of the ads we see are at least partially a results of our own browsing history.
I wonder 2 things about ads.
1. Are browsing histories prompting ads from questionable sites, but adsense software is kicking them out immediately before being included on a subsequently visited website?
2. Do google bots "take notice' of those excluded ads?

Once or twice, I posted a picture of Dawn Wells, Gilligan's Mary Ann eating a popsicle. It is a wonderful picture but could be considered a violation. The problem is, I don't remember the thread(s) in which I posted. I will continue to search, but if someone else remembers, please let me know and I will delete the pic.

What you need to do Cliff, is go to YouTube and put the video of the time they used this forum on the news and helped the young man before he died, then explain that if they do this (pull the adds) that you WILL show the world what you are trying to get rid of, people who try to come together and help out others in needs, now - what would that say about them.....publicize it, replicate it, place it everywhere. Two can play that game!!

That is worst case scenario of course.

or you could put it or more nice terms, wither way............my terms are aggressive to say the least.

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Notchie to Fast Back Conversion

After Market Steering Wheel Conversion
[URL=https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/128333-3.html]

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: that's not what was there... thanks for changing it

That's not what was there? That's what I saw when I first read it yesterday "petrol*****" (edited the last part of the word). Tolerant leftist on the other hand did actually use the words. Had Stubby79 used those words I would suspect he would have ended up banned like tolerant leftist did when Cliff edited tolerant leftists post and banned him.

I fully understand Cliff's actions and concerns.... But ya know, it IS a pretty sad state of affairs when ya can't even discuss a topic because some filthy sack of **** corporation has appointed themselves as the speech police...and either comply or else.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I fully understand Cliff's actions and concerns.... But ya know, it IS a pretty sad state of affairs when ya can't even discuss a topic because some filthy sack of **** corporation has appointed themselves as the speech police...and either comply or else.

No, it's about money. Google isn't obligated to be involved in anything they don't want to be involved in.

I don't know which thread it was but I do recall that those words were used in a thread here in OT. The thread was, if I remember correctly, a person asking about storing his Fiero because he was going to jail because he had inappropriate relations with a girl that "looked 18" but was actually only 12. I don't recall the posters screen name right off but I wouldn't be surprised if it was that thread that caused this? I seem to remember a sister thread being created in GFC because so many of us were outraged by this guys attempts to excuse his behavior. Real piece of trash in my book. I think his name had something to do with "Grease Monkey" but I'm not positive on that because it was several years back.

Edit: Found his name it was "greasemonke50613" but it looks like you already deleted that thread.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 04-23-2016).]

quote Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: My appeal has been denied... Not sure what to do next. I can't keep this forum running without the ads.

If it was me Cliff, I was being careful. If it was me, tell me. I want the forum to know. I would personally write your ad service with an apology.

If it wasn't me, I think the rest of us should write an forum group apology letter. Represent for Cliff.

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: I'd prune the whole O/T and let it start fresh, as it has nothing of value as far as Fiero's go.

You are wrong. Just as having a company BBQ some weekend at a lake has nothing to do with work. Or stopping by the bar on the way home for a cold one doesn't have anything to do with work.

PFF is the full package. No need for a bunch of forums to get any information that you want. If I need one, I trust someone here will get me where I need to be.

I don't see many guys in Chat, or Technical Discussion & Questions, post here. I don't have much to add to their love of conversation. I lurk though, and mine their knowledge using "search". I am not afraid to ask.
All of them have more than half a brain. They lurk here. They read ... what they want to. Filter be damned, or not. I have no doubt we are an entertaining bunch, .

They should know that we are the technical discussion of life, ... and we have a rich difference in experience. If they have HVAC problems, a good bet is to ask in T/OT. A reply might be a hyperlink pulled from "search".

I should be looking through T/OT "search". For a thread by fierofetish. About his health problems from not drinking enough water. Would an archived CD log have search?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-22-2016).]

I just thought of another possible which unfortunately would be to many numerous threads to try to remember. I can recall SEVERAL threads relating to Islam being on the topic that started all of this. Probably some on the Catholic church, Christian church and other things like teachers.

[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 04-22-2016).]

PFF is a wealth of knowledge about the Fiero, and will hopefully continue to be. If O/T and the Trash Can have become a dangerous liability, it might be time to get rid of them. Nuke O/T, nuke the Trash Can (RIP 'My FIero is Going'), and keep it Fieros. Would also eliminate a lot of trolls who only post in O/T just to start fights.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: PFF is a wealth of knowledge about the Fiero, and will hopefully continue to be. If O/T and the Trash Can have become a dangerous liability, it might be time to get rid of them. Nuke O/T, nuke the Trash Can (RIP 'My FIero is Going'), and keep it Fieros. Would also eliminate a lot of trolls who only post in O/T just to start fights.

The problem with that is I seem to remember Cliff posting awhile back that OT see's the most traffic out of the entire forum, possibly more than the rest of the forum combined. If you eliminate it, you will eliminate a lot of traffic on the forum that will result in less ad exposure making less ad income to keep the forum going. It'd be like removing your lungs because you got cancer. Sure it'd get rid of the problem but you'll die shortly after since you can't breathe anymore.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: PFF is a wealth of knowledge about the Fiero, and will hopefully continue to be. If O/T and the Trash Can have become a dangerous liability, it might be time to get rid of them. Nuke O/T, nuke the Trash Can (RIP 'My FIero is Going'), and keep it Fieros. Would also eliminate a lot of trolls who only post in O/T just to start fights.

If nuking T/OT saves the site, I say do it.
I will miss it, but the wealth of information and camaraderie for the Fiero is far more important than some blither-bathering about flibber-flabber.

That being said, I think it's a sad state of affairs when grown men can't have a discussion...about anything...without some mechanical money-generating over-seer dictating what can & can't be discussed, with the punishment of removing your financial means of support.

Earth has become a sh!thole...

"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,

Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more; and by a sleep to say we end

The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep;

To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub;
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come

When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause: there's the respect
That makes calamity of so long life."

I'm so sorry, Cliff.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 04-22-2016).]

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: If O/T and the Trash Can have become a dangerous liability, it might be time to get rid of them.

NOooooo. Like Chat and Tech each never sent some topics there, . Sometimes we need a place to continue a discussion. Channel back to high school. Fight. After school. People are gonna come watch.

quote Originally posted by RWDPLZ: Would also eliminate a lot of trolls who only post in O/T just to start fights.

Who made you the judge ? What do we do with the rest of the trolls ?

I just realized, in the "cheese puffs" thread, I posted a picture of a young lady in a tub full of Cheetos. Should I remove that?
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...HTML/116171.html#p14

I am still looking for the Dawn Wells Popsicle pic, but I haven't found it yet.

quote Originally posted by williegoat: I just realized, in the "cheese puffs" thread, I posted a picture of a young lady in a tub full of Cheetos. Should I remove that?

Sexy isn't the same as "adult", imo. PG, sure, but that's about it. You can see as much in commercials on tv.

[This message has been edited by Stubby79 (edited 04-22-2016).]

How about some kind of petition we all could "digitally" sign to vouch for the integrity of this forum ?

Here's a path to donate to Cliff.

Here's a path to donate to Cliff and to help keep this site running.. https://www.fiero.nl/cgi-bin/main.cgi?donate

[This message has been edited by CoolBlue87GT (edited 04-23-2016).]

Cliff,
Hoping you read this and do as I ask, Please delete any and all threads I may have started, contributed to or in any way had any input. While I've never posted a picture to this forum (don't know how), that doesn't mean I may not have committed some violation of the rules.

While I do not believe I am guilty of any gross infractions, minor ones are most surely present. I've tried looking through all the threads I've been involved and that just ain't gonna cut the mustard. There's way too many for me to have any success finding a violation or two. So, with that said, please delete any and all posts I may be associated with. Thanks.

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Ron

Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun?

My Uncle Frank was a staunch Conservative and voted straight Republican until the day he died in Chicago. Since then he has voted Democrat. Shrug

quote Originally posted by blackrams: So, with that said, please delete any and all posts I may be associated with. Thanks. Wouldn't that decline the forum's participation rate ? Surely important for add interest .

The add agency is just now getting around to our background check ? We only have one violation in 17 years ?

[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-23-2016).]

What I meant by deleting O/T is all the threads in the archive. Maybe even anything past page 5 in the current threads. Leave the sections for new posts here on out. We lose some cool stuff but not the whole forum.

quote Originally posted by Hudini: What I meant by deleting O/T is all the threads in the archive. Maybe even anything past page 5 in the current threads. Leave the sections for new posts here on out. We lose some cool stuff but not the whole forum.

Disagree 100%.

I felt this issue was important enough to drop in and express my opinion.

Originally posted in This thread

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Even though I no longer post in O/T (as I got SO tired of being subjected to the endless political bickering), I wouldn't want to see that section of the forum eliminated. Creating O/T was a good idea as it helps to keep most of the non-tech discussion out of the tech threads. I don't think many of the non-original members realize that there was no O/T when PFF first started. O/T was fun for quite awhile before it got almost completely taken over by political zealots. Kind of a shame actually. I'd like to see O/T cleaned up, but then I'd also like to see cancer eradicated.

quote Originally posted by Patrick: What exactly is a "reset"? If that means deleting everything that was ever posted in O/T... Hell no! Many of us have shared important personal events of our lives in O/T... births, deaths, relationships, pets, jobs, misfortunes, holidays, music, photographs, laughter, sorrow, etc. I've often searched through the archives to find posts (my own as well as other member's) from years ago. Yes, a lot of useless political nonsense has been posted (and I despise it), but there's no need (hopefully) to throw out the baby with the bath water. It would be an absolute shame to lose over 16 years worth of irreplaceable PFF member history.

Please read the exchange I had with Don (maryjane) starting Here.

quote Originally posted by blackrams and Others say: Please "NUKE" TOT, the Trash Can and all of those topics in the archives. I don't know that this will eliminate all of the potential threats but, it should help and we can all survive with out the topics in those sections. ...

Google and likely others already have cache and archive this entire site and Deleting or Hiding Anything Now Does Not Work. Often even after a few second or minutes.
Example: Look at Twitter posts by celebrities that are deleted but have been re-tweeted hundreds to thousands of times Plus many bots archive every tweet possible.

Might get pass Google's current rules but this will be a problem from now on. Google loves to change rules at a whim.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 04-23-2016).]

PC vaginas. **** You.

The quelling of words bothers me deeply. A Bill of Rights can be stomped on by the "rights" of a company.

quote Originally posted by Tony Kania: PC vaginas. **** You. The quelling of words bothers me deeply. A Bill of Rights can be stomped on by the "rights" of a company.

Its not stepping on anything. PFF gets paid for ADs and has to adhere to the conditions.
No different than any job I have had in the last 40 years.
Want paid here are the conditions. Sucks but that is it.
Just pointing that out

**** you that's why

Ironic and/or hypocritical, considering the smut you can find on their image search.

denigrating the entity that holds the purse strings to PFF's continuance is probably not helpful.

quote Originally posted by maryjane: denigrating the entity that holds the purse strings to PFF's continuance is probably not helpful.

Sure it is. It helps us feel better about the hassle. Just like you badmouth your boss when he's not around.

So long as it's not against their rules, why not?

Wipe out all the topics in T/OT, and the Trashcan, and start them fresh, might wanna clear out the archives too just to be safe. Start everything fresh, see if that takes care of it.

Google isn't the bad guy here. They have standards they require in order for a site to use their ads.
Would you do business with someone who is rude, surly and curses at you? If you said you'd take your business elsewhere, is that stepping on their rights?

The bad guys are us. Me, you, anyone who has ever posted something inappropriate. We've all known the rules and I know I've tip toed around them in the past. Perhaps not with any malice, and maybe with a bit of mischief, but I still knew it was against the rules.

Just as this is Cliff's house and we must respect that, Cliff invited Google to the party. If Google doesn't like the company Cliff keeps, they're going to leave.
WE are the problem.

(looking in the mirror) *I* am the problem. I'll do what I can to fix that.

quote Originally posted by Stubby79: Sure it is. It helps us feel better about the hassle. Just like you badmouth your boss when he's not around.

It doesn't make me feel one bit better about 'the hassle', and if you think the 'boss' (Google's bots in this situation) isn't around, you are likely mistaken.

While I have posted my share of pictures. I don't think any of them crossed the line.
That said I apologize because I have posted inappropriate links. Sure they were marked but still they lead to inappropriate sites.

I am not alone but I do take responsibility for my actions and apologize.
As for hate speech I do not participate, when things head that way I leave.

Cliff I don't know what I can do to help. I can buy you a beer but that's just a band aid.
Perhaps its time to revamp the site but I know what kind of work that would be and know you don't have the time.

Perhaps its time to archive the entire site and just start over.
Could you host a clean forum and get your ads back?

Perhaps you could import the parts of the forum that meet their scrutiny.

Again I apologize for any part my posts played and you are welcome to purge any that I didn't find.
I even got rid of my avatar I don't think she was inappropriate but such is life.
I hope this gets sorted out as I would really miss OT and PFF should it change or not exist.

Oh, plenty of blame to go around Jake. Even my "snowblower man" with his blurred out back side is a violation according to their policy guidelines. Sad part is, we each and all have known from day one, that this is supposed to be a family oriented-family-kid safe 'G-rated' board, even and especially OT.

I suggest deleting all threads that deal with Islam and catholicism. Not that I have an issue with them, but that the subject matter usually turns to abusive language related to this thread Topic.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Google isn't the bad guy here. They have standards they require in order for a site to use their ads. Would you do business with someone who is rude, surly and curses at you? If you said you'd take your business elsewhere, is that stepping on their rights? The bad guys are us. Me, you, anyone who has ever posted something inappropriate. We've all known the rules and I know I've tip toed around them in the past. Perhaps not with any malice, and maybe with a bit of mischief, but I still knew it was against the rules. Just as this is Cliff's house and we must respect that, Cliff invited Google to the party. If Google doesn't like the company Cliff keeps, they're going to leave. WE are the problem. (looking in the mirror) *I* am the problem. I'll do what I can to fix that.

Exactly. The problem isn't Google. They don't post here.

I for one, am 100% in favor of wiping O/T and the Trash Can altogether, bring it back with more stringent rules, a stronger "firewall" so to speak and sticking to the rules like a poltice. Break 'em ONCE and you're done. No Tolerance policy.

Regardless of if it's big money or chump change, the simple reality is you're playing with someone else's chips here.

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 04-23-2016).]

quote Originally posted by Khw: I just thought of another possible which unfortunately would be to many numerous threads to try to remember. I can recall SEVERAL threads relating to Islam being on the topic that started all of this. Probably some on the Catholic church, Christian church and other things like teachers.

I suggest deleting all threads of this type. They are not productive, edifying or informative and often brake down to insults that some may view as offensive. Not to mention that their content rarely reveals any "new" information.