Sounds like 1,400 still have their job. More than Jaski or I did. Except one of us is happy that Americans are still working, and the other one of us not so much.
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Originally posted by jaskispyder:
wow.... a whole 1400. What no parade? LOL.
So... if a president can save 1400 jobs, imagine what you would think of a president who saved 1.5M jobs.
Give it a year and we will really see what happens. Carrier just didn't say "hey, you know, you have a good idea, let's stay in the US".
Saved 1.5 million, but at what cost? We have a national debt that is, well, you can do math. I give credit to Obama for dividing and nearly conquering a nation. Ours.
I will give it a year. You will not. Even in defeat, you Pidgeon. So sad. Sad Pidgeon. Pecking at scraps. Peck away Sad Pidgeon.
How do you know what Carrier said? Oh wait, you do not. Or, were you that Pidgeon on a wire?
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 12-02-2016).]
Just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean they didn't happen.
Absolutely true that perception does not necessarily reflect reality.
And on the the question of reality, do you like obama's policies ? Are you happy with the economic conclusion if his administrative leadership? Do you think 4 more years would have been enough time To deliver their desired benefits?
Please give me some insight as to what you really stand for and believe. Your opinion about Trump is well expressed so I don't need a review on that subject. Do again please limit your response to your personal political values and sensibility.
Than you
Edit: Sorry I edited some unintended spelling Errors.....
[This message has been edited by jmclemore (edited 12-02-2016).]
Love the double standard... The obama hate is strong, Trump love is even stronger. He can do no wrong and you never ask how things get done.
Wait for it... wait for it... here comes the Trump surprise... bend over...
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Originally posted by Tony Kania:
Saved 1.5 million, but at what cost? We have a national debt that is, well, you can do math. I give credit to Obama for dividing and nearly conquering a nation. Ours.
I will give it a year. You will not. Even in defeat, you Pidgeon. So sad. Sad Pidgeon. Pecking at scraps. Peck away Sad Pidgeon.
How do you know what Carrier said? Oh wait, you do not. Or, were you that Pidgeon on a wire?
4 more years of Obama? Not possible. He isn't running, nor can he run.
Trump is the next prez... time to put him in the spotlight and question everything he does, like you and others have done with Obama. So far, he is as transparent as a lead wall. I guess you approve of a government that makes backroom deals and comes out and tells you how great things will be.
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Originally posted by jmclemore:
Absolutely true the perception does not necessarily reflect reality.
And on the the question of reality, do you like obama's policies ? Are you happy with the economic conclusion if his administrative leadership? Do you think 4 more years would have been enough time To deliver their dedired benefits?
Please give me some insight as to what you really stand for and believe. Your opinion about Trump is well expressed so I don't need a review on the subjuct. Do again please limit your response to your personal political values and sensibility.
I keep hearing lots of Hillary supporters like Jaski saying that this is a bad deal for the country, but by my simple math I can't help but see it as a huge win. 7 million of tax incentives spread out over 10 years, saving the jobs of 1,000 workers. This comes to a mere $700 a worker, who are now gainfully employed for the next 10 years and will be paying far more back into the federal coffers through income tax, and supporting the economy through their pay check. Had they been forced onto federal assistance, the cost to the tax payer would have been a whole lot higher than a mere $700 per worker. I know guys in Jaski would love to see American's unemployed and dependent on government handouts, because it would mean they would be voting for his party - the guys who have created the current government run system of enslavement. But for other who wish to have the dignity of having a job, this is a huge win. Good jump Trump.
WSJ Radio was saying it was around $900 / job. Still seems reasonable for the reasons stated above.
And keep in mind it is not like the State of Indiana or the Feds is giving Carrier a check for each job/ worker. They, Carrier, can take tax credits so their tax liability is lower so they pay less. The alternative is to collect nothing as pointed out above and payout in un-employment and welfare. My old adage... 50% of something is still better than 100% of nothing.
We don't know, like you said there isn't transparency at this point. But we can assume whatever we like.
What is Trump hiding? You know the old phrase, "if it is too good to be true..."
Trump got what he wanted (media attention)... Carrier got what they want (you know it wasn't for the tax credits... that doesn't offset the savings of moving to Mexico).... so, what did they get?
Somebody missed the mark Mr. President Obama Sir. Damn. It means very little to him though. He gave no hope to those people. Even basking in his words. This is our current leadership, and so many want this?
Again, congrats President Trump. No deflections. No Pidgeons. Just a thank you. Let's keep this ball rolling. Why argue when things are beginning? Do you need a safe space? If so, make it comfortable for your spongie azzez. It is going to be a long sit in for those not working and at least striving towards a worthy goal.
What is Trump hiding? You know the old phrase, "if it is too good to be true..."
Trump got what he wanted (media attention)... Carrier got what they want (you know it wasn't for the tax credits... that doesn't offset the savings of moving to Mexico).... so, what did they get?
4 more years of Obama? Not possible. He isn't running, nor can he run.
Trump is the next prez... time to put him in the spotlight and question everything he does, like you and others have done with Obama. So far, he is as transparent as a lead wall. I guess you approve of a government that makes backroom deals and comes out and tells you how great things will be.
Don't fret, Republicans will be sure to hold Trump as accountable as Democrats held Obama. Starting January 20th, it's your turn to sit in the back of the bus.
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Originally posted by jaskispyder:
What is Trump hiding?
Here come the Trumpers with their conspiracy theories. Please keep them coming. They'll make for great amusement.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 12-02-2016).]
4 more years of Obama? Not possible. He isn't running, nor can he run.
Trump is the next prez... time to put him in the spotlight and question everything he does, like you and others have done with Obama. So far, he is as transparent as a lead wall. I guess you approve of a government that makes backroom deals and comes out and tells you how great things will be.
Absolutely not. But I do have a very! Conservative view on what constitutes a backroom deal.
So we have The policies of; The Democratic party The Republican party The Libertarian party The Green party And Then there's Trump
Do you favor either of them? Or is there a party that I left out of the list that you find more appealing?
You didnt need to hunt out Obumas blunders. They were all obvious to anyone paying attention. The man was totally unfit to be of any importance. We just have the thank the founding fathers for limiting terms. Another 4 years of Obuma would have made the US a 3rd world nation like Iraq or Afghanistan. VERY lucky for us that Hillary, who would have just continued the downward spiral, couldnt get herself elected. Trump on the other hand is a businessman, and whether it goes well or not, he actually might know something about what hes doing. Obuma done questionable things but bordered on legal 'enough' to get by, Hillary on the other hand did everything under the sun that was illegal, but tried hard (unsuccessfully) to keep everything covered up enough to stay out of jail. That might still be a possibility depending on the FBI under Trump, even if he personally dont push it.
From the outside, Obama has been the worst president I have seen during my lifetime. The United States went from being one of the most respected countries in the world, to a laughing stock manipulated and pushed around by third world dictators.
Good riddance to bad rubbish. Hopefully it's back to Kenya for him and his family now that the damage has been done. Just please lord, keep them from coming to Canada!
[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 12-02-2016).]
What is Trump hiding? You know the old phrase, "if it is too good to be true..."
Trump got what he wanted (media attention)... Carrier got what they want (you know it wasn't for the tax credits... that doesn't offset the savings of moving to Mexico).... so, what did they get?
Originally linked by jaskispyder: ... the company said that they will still be moving forward with their plans to relocate the fan coil manufacturing lines to their Monterrey, Mexico facility.
What is so hard to understand about that, ? Carrier has a plant there, already. Carrier had entered into an agreement with the Mexican regime. With legal liabilities, as well as financial ones.
Gee, go figure. They couldn't bring back all the jobs. They will though. As soon as they can, provided the "Trump Tax Triumph" happens along with "Trump Realistic Regulatory Reforms".
Donald Trump took aim Friday at a second U.S. manufacturer that plans to move jobs from Indiana to Mexico, a day after he threatened consequences for business that shifted American jobs abroad.
“Rexnord of Indiana is moving to Mexico and rather viciously firing all of its 300 workers,” Mr. Trump wrote at 10:06 p.m. on Twitter. “This is happening all over our country. No more!”
I guess we'll have to see where this goes...... But, apparently rexnord was not invisible.
Sounds like 1,400 still have their job. More than Jaski or I did. Except one of us is happy that Americans are still working, and the other one of us not so much.
There are a lot of people who are upset. It's not because they didn't want those jobs saved, but it's because the fact that Trump was able to do it. It legitimizes Trump. The scariest thing for many Democrats, whether they will openly admit it or not... is that Trump will actually succeed. I don't mean as in... pushing Conservative policy... I mean that the economy will actually prosper, companies will come back, and the economy will get back on track. The reason this scares them is that it delegitemizes the past 8 years, and re-affirms (in their minds) Republican ideology.
The reality is... this is probably neither, but a realization that both parties had become corrupt, and what Trump is doing is quite frankly... just common sense that's not blinded by lobbying.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: There are a lot of people who are upset. It's not because they didn't want those jobs saved, but it's because the fact that Trump was able to do it.
It's going to be very informative to learn who has a problem with Trump creating and saving jobs.......
There are people in both parties who want to increase incomes, not jobs. and those income increases would not be on wages and salaries....
If you've have a job with decent pay and is reasonably secure, you know how scary it is to lose that job. For those who have decent pay and security, it can come at a high price. Stress, excessive work hours, inadequate family time, no upward mobility, etc.
That is what some in our political oligarchy would like to save you from. If they could free us from the slave like relationship of employer dependency, we'd be free to do the work we want to do instead of being stuck in one that is killing us and our family.
Too bad, that the only way they can achieve it would require changing our income dependency from employers to the Federal Government.
But at least you won't be stuck in your job... right?
Just follow the ripples to the end result. If they control income? what controls cost of living?
Single Payer? -income/wages -healthcare/insurance -Bank/loans/mortgages -education/college
Give them responsibility and the will seek to control every factor that affects their result. They will deliver 80% and use you dissatisfaction to gain more responsibility (control). Ultimately they will control 101% because we have given them the responsibility. We expect it.....
If you think I'm wrong Are you collecting social security? would you give up your SS check right now for a lump sum pay out of -
$50,000 $100,000 $200,000 $500,000 $1,000,000
I assume those with higher pension or retirement savings income will accept a lower amount than those with little to no additional retirement income.
Well, the 'magic wand' is to cut all the bull crap regulations, give everyone tax breaks, and make companies WANT to stay in the US. His 35% proposed import tax may show them the light too. Under Obumas rule, I didnt even want to live here. He got his magic wand from some wicked wizard...and managed to pretty much destroy the US as people knew it in 8 years.
The scariest thing for many Democrats, whether they will openly admit it or not... is that Trump will actually succeed. I don't mean as in... pushing Conservative policy... I mean that the economy will actually prosper, companies will come back, and the economy will get back on track. The reason this scares them is that it delegitemizes the past 8 years, and re-affirms (in their minds) Republican ideology.
.
I'm not sure any amount of reality would do that for the die hards.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: There are a lot of people who are upset. It's not because they didn't want those jobs saved, but it's because the fact that Trump was able to do it. It legitimizes Trump. The scariest thing for many Democrats, whether they will openly admit it or not... is that Trump will actually succeed.
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Originally posted by dobey: Maybe you'll understand better if Trump does manage to take office ...
But even though the jobs aren't going to Mexico ... Many of the approximately 800 jobs will likely be lost to automation, reports The New York Times. In an interview with CNBC's Jim Kramer, Greg Hayes, CEO of Carrier's parent company United Technologies, was blunt. "We're going to make up [the] $16 million investment in that factory in Indianapolis to automate, to drive the cost down so that we can continue to be competitive. Now is it as cheap as moving to Mexico with lower cost of labor? No. But we will make that plant competitive just because we'll make the capital investments there," Hayes said. "But what that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs."
He also confirmed that he feared standing up to Trump because it could be costly to his conglomerate, which includes a lot of defense work. "There was a cost as we thought about keeping the Indiana plant open. At the same time - and I'll tell you this because you and I, we know each other - but I was born at night but not last night. I also know that about 10 percent of our revenue comes from the U.S. government."
Originally posted by jaskispyder: Will trump threaten (or provide tax dollars) to each an every company that says they will ship jobs out of the country?
No. PRESIDENT Trump will create an environment of which companies will not want to move jobs out of America.
Originally posted by jaskispyder: Those pesky details ...
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Originally championed by jaskispyder:
But even though the jobs aren't going to Mexico ... Many of the approximately 800 jobs will likely be lost to automation, reports The New York Times."But what that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs."
My my my, whaa whaa whaa. Tell that to the lamplight lighters, to the switchboard operators. Ruin their Christmas.
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Originally championed by jaskispyder: The New York Times. In an interview with CNBC's Jim Kramer, Greg Hayes, CEO of Carrier's parent company United Technologies, was blunt. I was born at night but not last night. I also know that about 10 percent of our revenue comes from the U.S. government."
Has Greg Hayes not figured out that the US Government taxes him at the highest rate than any other government on the planet ?
I rather the tax dollars spent in the US rather than sent to other countries, or wasted junk spending like Obuma does. The government SHOULD BE spending the tax dollars investing in the US. That is exactly why a businessman should be in charge instead of a 'community organizer' or an outright liar woman thief/traitor. Giving some company some financial incentives is a much better use of our money for the country than giving say Iran $100 million dollars. Here it keeps our companies running, there it keeps our enemies supplied. A perfect new example of Obuma wanting to spend 3 billion dollars to replace Air Force One. Trump is against the idea, as am I. Theres nothing wrong with the current ones and no benefit to anyone to have a new shiny toy. The person being careful with spending dont buy a new car every year or two just because he wants the latest new toy. A new one, exactly the same, is of no benefit at all and is in fact a total waste of 3 billion dollars. Put that into health care or backing up social security or medicare. Want it pretty and work like new, get a new paint job and 4 new engines. The average age of current airline 747s...that land and take off many times every day is around 30 years. The current AF1 is about 25, and sometimes dont fly for weeks at a time. Air Force B52s average 55-60 years old and still in use daily.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-07-2016).]
Originally posted by jaskispyder: Yup, on the backs of the tax payers....
Not sure how you interpret that.
But I'd rather the government, which is of course funded by taxes. Create an environment where business can succeed, than spend the taxes holding businesses down, making policies for people who don't pay taxes to come in and stay, and using taxes to hand money to people who won't work.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 12-08-2016).]
I rather the tax dollars spent in the US rather than sent to other countries, or wasted junk spending like Obuma does. The government SHOULD BE spending the tax dollars investing in the US. That is exactly why a businessman should be in charge instead of a 'community organizer' or an outright liar woman thief/traitor. Giving some company some financial incentives is a much better use of our money for the country than giving say Iran $100 million dollars. Here it keeps our companies running, there it keeps our enemies supplied.
Incentives are not paying off all of a companies bad spending and investments. I would have been fine giving GM some tax deferments on their buildings and equipment. If you bungle away 50 million dollars, the government should not give you a check for 50 million dollars. Bailout=handout, not an incentive. I think they should have went bankrupt myself without any US cash. The government didnt give me me cash to pay my debts.
Incentives are not paying off all of a companies bad spending and investments. I would have been fine giving GM some tax deferments on their buildings and equipment. If you bungle away 50 million dollars, the government should not give you a check for 50 million dollars. Bailout=handout, not an incentive. I think they should have went bankrupt myself without any US cash. The government didnt give me me cash to pay my debts.
hmmmmmmmmm back at you.
1.5 MILLION jobs saved. vs... what... 700? Yeah... ok... you would rather 1.5M be jobless and retirees lose their income and go on welfare, but praise King Midas for "saving" 700 jobs (which will go away, anyway).
So... 1 company down... thousands to go... The King will be busy for the next 4 years, handing out tax dollars to companies.
Originally posted by jaskispyder: 1.5 MILLION jobs saved. vs... what... 700? Yeah... ok... you would rather 1.5M be jobless and retirees lose their income and go on welfare, but praise King Midas for "saving" 700 jobs (which will go away, anyway).
So... 1 company down... thousands to go... The King will be busy for the next 4 years, handing out tax dollars to companies.
I agree, Mr. Trump will be busy straightening out the mess that this country and this economy is in, thanks to the poor choices made by previous administrations.
More than Jaski or I did. Except one of us is happy that Americans are still working, and the other one of us not so much. 
?
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