I think it's high time we turned the tables back on the radical left. Just how long do you think this play would be 'allowed' to be performed if it was Obama getting assassinated night after night?
Those on the right have traditionally been rather tolerant and have been satisfied to watch the childish and/or illegal antics of the left, trusting that they would either burn themselves out or that the police would step in to get control.
No more!
With any luck, this protest will become more organized and will become a nightly event as long as the play continues to run
[This message has been edited by otakudude (edited 06-16-2017).]
This does not help our cause. If we stoop to using the same uncivilized tactics that are commonly used by the left, we have abandoned our principles. As abhorrent as the play might be, they still have the right to free speech. We have the right to speak out against it, but not to abridge their rights.
This does not help our cause. If we stoop to using the same uncivilized tactics that are commonly used by the left, we have abandoned our principles. As abhorrent as the play might be, they still have the right to free speech. We have the right to speak out against it, but not to abridge their rights.
Hmm.
We abandoned our principles when we revolted against England. We abandoned our principles when we engaged in Civil War. Who defines principles ?
When I get a beating, I get new principles.
You are in the minority sir. Read the comments.
If Nobama came for a public appearance, I would go. To exercise my First Amendment right. I would yell out "you lie".
I hope the next protest is better organized. They could get 20-30 people into the show. Then every 5 minutes, one of them blasts an air horn, yells and disrupts the show. They get thrown out, the show resumes for 5 minutes, rinse and repeat.
I guaranty that a week of that kind of disruption would end the show.
I think it would be funny if some people put together a Rocky Horror kind of thing (getting up on stage and doing goofy stuff) to distract from the show... maybe "do the time warp" or something. Hey, it's artistic expression!
This does not help our cause. If we stoop to using the same uncivilized tactics that are commonly used by the left, we have abandoned our principles. As abhorrent as the play might be, they still have the right to free speech. We have the right to speak out against it, but not to abridge their rights.
While I do agree that we all have the right to "free speech", that does not mean we are not responsible for our actions and speech. We are also not shielded from opposing view points. While I would not attend such a play, I agree that if the subject of the assignation was former President Obama, the left would be raising hell. I've got no problem with "Protests" done in a civilized manner from either side of the aisle.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
Minority? Perhaps, but Willie isn't alone on this.
I say protest the hell out of it if they want to, raise a ruckus, but try to stop or impede them by force or violence? ...NEVER.
It isn't even a First Amendment "free speech" issue.
The 1st Amendment only says that the *government* may not prohibit the free exercise thereof...
Each of us can "prohibit" any speech we wish as long as we don't violate the law or the rights of others.
I guess I am sick and tired, of being sick and tired, of the antics of the left.
I believe in the 'golden rule'. Unlike what my Dad says, it is not 'the guy with the gold makes the rules'. I believe we should treat each other how we wish to be treated. I also believe in treating people the exact way they treat me.
My objection is not to the protest, but to the tactic. It is the kind of behavior to which we object, when perpetrated by the left. Rushing the stage, interrupting the performance, shouting down opposing views are all counterproductive. We need to remain civilized. We should be a better example.
Originally posted by williegoat: My objection is not to the protest, but to the tactic. It is the kind of behavior to which we object, when perpetrated by the left. Rushing the stage, interrupting the performance, shouting down opposing views are all counterproductive. We need to remain civilized. We should be a better example.
I respect your feelings and in a strange way agree with them.
However, when the Germans carpet bombed London, the only thing which stopped it was the bombing of Germany. Ditto Japan. When a bully hits you, you can keep on getting hit, or hit back.
My objection is not to the protest, but to the tactic. It is the kind of behavior to which we object, when perpetrated by the left. Rushing the stage, interrupting the performance, shouting down opposing views are all counterproductive. We need to remain civilized. We should be a better example.
I see you point. But let's put things in perspective. As far as I can tell, none of these protesters destroyed any property or assaulted anyone. No windows were smashed. No cars were burned. Nobody was dragged out of their car and beaten in the middle of the street. So saying that this tactic is the same as the leftists is a red herring. These protesters ARE being more civilized than the leftists!
My objection is not to the protest, but to the tactic. It is the kind of behavior to which we object, when perpetrated by the left. Rushing the stage, interrupting the performance, shouting down opposing views are all counterproductive. We need to remain civilized. We should be a better example.
I see your point but that doesn't work with people who don't play by the rules. This video sums up the counter argument well.
A rodeo clown got it worse. A rodeo clown that wore a mask of Obama lost his job, was dragged through the media, and the nation puked. Democrats can continue to behead a sitting President, shoot him, stab him nightly, and damn near celebration?
Why/how is this even happening? Does this seem in any way even remotely normal?
Oregon just became the first state to allow YOU to choose your sex on a drivers license.
Originally posted by Doug85GT: This video sums up the counter argument well.
Very well.
He touched on Rules for Radicals.
quote
The Rules
1) "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood.
2) "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone.
3) "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
4) "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules.
5) "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
6) "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones.
7) "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news.
8) "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
9) "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
10) "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition." It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign.
11) "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.
12) "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem.
12) "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.
This does not help our cause. If we stoop to using the same uncivilized tactics that are commonly used by the left, we have abandoned our principles. As abhorrent as the play might be, they still have the right to free speech. We have the right to speak out against it, but not to abridge their rights.
I'm torn. On one hand I don't want to use the tactics of the Left, on the other hand not using them isn't working and something needs to happen.
This does not help our cause. If we stoop to using the same uncivilized tactics that are commonly used by the left, we have abandoned our principles. As abhorrent as the play might be, they still have the right to free speech. We have the right to speak out against it, but not to abridge their rights.
Oh this flipp'n nugget.. This mind set is exactly why we are still fighting a war.. and lost the last few.. The we need to take the higher ground. not stink to their level.. This is also why many time in elections liberals win, as they blast and slander and The "R"'s take the highroad.. and get run over..
Oh this flipp'n nugget.. This mind set is exactly why we are still fighting a war.. and lost the last few.. The we need to take the higher ground. not stink to their level.. This is also why many time in elections liberals win, as they blast and slander and The "R"'s take the highroad.. and get run over..
Originally posted by williegoat: This does not help our cause. If we stoop to using the same uncivilized tactics that are commonly used by the left, we have abandoned our principles.
As I said, I agree with you in a strange sort of way. This conversation has bothered me, in that I have to rethink my values. Help me out.
How do you suggest we stop the uncivilized attacks of the left ? When is enough, enough ?
As I said, I agree with you in a strange sort of way. This conversation has bothered me, in that I have to rethink my values. Help me out.
How do you suggest we stop the uncivilized attacks of the left ? When is enough, enough ?
I can only tell you how I try to do it. I do not make those that think differently then me the enemy. I do not apply the bad behavior of an individual to the whole.
We are talking about our fellow Americans, all bound under the same promise of Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. These are not "Enemies at the Gate". These are our brothers & sisters. And our children.
If we cannot even figure out how to work United (States of America), how can we ever deal productively with a whole World? What is our end-goal as a Person/American/Human/Child of God?
What do we want the World (and us) to look (and act) like in a 1,000 years?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-18-2017).]
As I said, I agree with you in a strange sort of way. This conversation has bothered me, in that I have to rethink my values. Help me out.
How do you suggest we stop the uncivilized attacks of the left ? When is enough, enough ?
We may, should and will meet physical attacks with defensive force. The play, however, was not a physical attack. It was simply mindless leftist drivel. It did not require a response.
That is not to say that a response was not warranted. It is in our best interest to speak out against such acts in appropriate forums. We can make our voices heard on our terms.
We speak out here. We speak out on the radio. We speak to friends, family and acquaintances. We can and should be involved in peaceful assembly and if appropriate and necessary, civil disobedience.
As for me, I would rather be Gandhi than Guevara. Both won. Only one kept his principles. Only one was right.
Originally posted by cliffw: How do you suggest we stop the uncivilized attacks of the left ? When is enough, enough ?
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:
We may, should and will meet physical attacks with defensive force.
That is not to say that a response was not warranted. It is in our best interest to speak out against such acts in appropriate forums. We can make our voices heard on our terms.
We speak out here. We speak out on the radio. We speak to friends, family and acquaintances. We can and should be involved in peaceful assembly and if appropriate and necessary, civil disobedience.
As for me, I would rather be Gandhi than Guevara. Both won. Only one kept his principles. Only one was right.
Can we make our voices heard at the University of California at Berkley ? Any college campus ?
Gandhi was imprisoned in 1922, 1930, 1933 and in 1942 for his beliefs. Guevara was not.
Gandhi's vision was religious pluralism and a united democratic independent India. This was, however, challenged by Muslim nationalism which demanded a separate Muslim homeland carved out of India. Eventually, in August 1947, Britain granted independence, but the British Indian Empire was partitioned into two dominions, a Hindu-majority India and Muslim-majority Pakistan. As many displaced Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs made their way to their new lands, religious violence broke out, especially in the Punjab and Bengal. Eschewing the official celebration of independence in Delhi, Gandhi visited the affected areas, attempting to provide solace. In the months following, he undertook several fasts unto death to stop religious violence. The last of these, undertaken on 12 January 1948 when he was 78. Some Indians thought Gandhi was too accommodating. Among them was Nathuram Godse, a Hindu nationalist, who assassinated Gandhi on 30 January 1948 by firing three bullets into his chest.
The Gandhi analogy was not meant to be taken quite so literally. I only meant that he was a peace loving man of principle, while Guevara was an unprincipled cold blooded killer.
In order to be heard in more venues, including on campus, we must win over the hearts and minds of the public. One way to do so is to project ourselves as a more civilized alternative to the opposition. If some of us act like hoodlums, that will not happen.
Originally posted by williegoat: In order to be heard in more venues, including on campus, we must win over the hearts and minds of the public. One way to do so is to project ourselves as a more civilized alternative to the opposition. If some of us act like hoodlums, that will not happen.
I have a feeling that students that don't agree with some of the ideals that are being presented to them as fact in College are fearful to speak up and challenge those ideals because they will be Immediately tagged & targeted as racist, communist, hateist, misogynist, etc. etc. etc.
Not just by their fellow students, but by the teachers, the administrators, and even the police. And then there is the explaining it to their parents, their loan officers, & eventually their employers, why they couldn't "hack" it in college.
So they just go along to get along. And get out of there.
Maybe the best we can do is to teach our children to stand up to bullsh!t, no matter what the cost, if you believe you're fighting for what's right. But wait. Isn't that the very thing the antagonist's themselves think they're doing?
As with everything Human, it's like unraveling a sweater that someone keeps knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting...
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 06-18-2017).]
We may, should and will meet physical attacks with defensive force. The play, however, was not a physical attack. It was simply mindless leftist drivel. It did not require a response.
That is not to say that a response was not warranted. It is in our best interest to speak out against such acts in appropriate forums. We can make our voices heard on our terms.
We speak out here. We speak out on the radio. We speak to friends, family and acquaintances. We can and should be involved in peaceful assembly and if appropriate and necessary, civil disobedience.
As for me, I would rather be Gandhi than Guevara. Both won. Only one kept his principles. Only one was right.
BULLSHITTA and here is why... The liberal judges in the liberal courts have already set a precedent, that movies/shows /music viewing or hearing can cause a person to act out, yes it is lame but they have tried to blame "entertainment" for actions of their own making, and have got off, or got a very short jail term because it wasn't their fault.. Get a country club roof over head and 3 hots and a cot.. cable,gym,schooling.(even if they never get out)
Do you see where I'm going or do you need it spelled out for you.. This isn't just a play or a show.. I get it ,if the crap hits the fan you'll get no check each month so you rather everyone just bend over and take it. cause when the bottom falls out you'll be dust/ash..
This was not just a play/show this was a battle cry for all the "triggered" progressive liberals. Hay there is a play/show about it , it must be ok.. I got support of the same thoughts as mine.. and off they go..
I have a feeling that students that don't agree with some of the ideals that are being presented to them as fact in College are fearful to speak up and challenge those ideals because they will be Immediately tagged & targeted as racist, communist, hateist, misogynist, etc. etc. etc.
Not just by their fellow students, but by the teachers, the administrators, and even the police. And then there is the explaining it to their parents, their loan officers, & eventually their employers, why they couldn't "hack" it in college.
So they just go along to get along. And get out of there.
Maybe the best we can do is to teach our children to stand up to bullsh!t, no matter what the cost, if you believe you're fighting for what's right. But wait. Isn't that the very thing the antagonist's themselves think they're doing?
As with everything Human, it's like unraveling a sweater that someone keeps knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting & knitting...
We have to be stronger than that. We can't allow ourselves to be intimidated. It isn't always easy to maintain our principles, but in the end, it's all we have.
BULLSHITTA and here is why... The liberal judges in the liberal courts have already set a precedent, that movies/shows /music viewing or hearing can cause a person to act out, yes it is lame but they have tried to blame "entertainment" for actions of their own making, and have got off, or got a very short jail term because it wasn't their fault.. Get a country club roof over head and 3 hots and a cot.. cable,gym,schooling.(even if they never get out)
Do you see where I'm going or do you need it spelled out for you.. This isn't just a play or a show.. I get it ,if the crap hits the fan you'll get no check each month so you rather everyone just bend over and take it. cause when the bottom falls out you'll be dust/ash..
This was not just a play/show this was a battle cry for all the "triggered" progressive liberals. Hay there is a play/show about it , it must be ok.. I got support of the same thoughts as mine.. and off they go..
I think it's high time we turned the tables back on the radical left. Just how long do you think this play would be 'allowed' to be performed if it was Obama getting assassinated night after night?
Those on the right have traditionally been rather tolerant and have been satisfied to watch the childish and/or illegal antics of the left, trusting that they would either burn themselves out or that the police would step in to get control.
No more!
With any luck, this protest will become more organized and will become a nightly event as long as the play continues to run
"Just how long do you think this play would be 'allowed' to be performed if it was Obama getting assassinated night after night?"
--> Long enough to be performed as scheduled, from opening night to closing night, in several American cities, including the "Big Apple" ..?
Of course, that was way back in 2012, which seems like ancient history after the first 148 days of the Trump misadministration.
"CLICK" this thumbnail image to enlarge Bjorn DuPaty was cast as an Obama-like Julius Caesar in The Acting Company's 2012 production of "Julius Caesar".
There's a long tradition of casting contemporary political figures in the role of Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar." The very first production of the play, in 1599, could be interpreted as having been a sly way to put satire about Queen Elizabeth I on stage, without running afoul of censorship that had been imposed by the Anglican Church. The Atlantic's Sophie Gilbert holds court on the subject: https://www.theatlantic.com...ulius-caesar/530037/
For an even deeper dive into "Julius Caesar" and its connections to politics over the centuries, consult the U.K.'s Malcolm Hebron. He's a "rocket scientist" when it comes to such matters: https://www.bl.uk/shakespea...ion-in-julius-caesar
Here's part of what Jesse Green had to say in the New York Times theater section about the Trump-inspired production of "Julius Caesar" that's been playing in New York City:
quote
[But] the loudest alarm in this cacophony of cautionary Trump tales is the one now sounding from the Delacorte Theater in Central Park, where the Public Theater’s wild production of “Julius Caesar” has been in previews since May 23. Its depiction of a petulant, blondish Caesar in a blue suit, complete with gold bathtub and a pouty Slavic wife, takes onstage Trump-trolling to a startling new level.
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