It's the Law Firm of Dobey, Jazzman and ShaunIsItShaun?TheTotalOnlineTrollFromTheOtherFieroForum.
Jazzman!!! What happened to him? I remember he left with a lot of drama... kicking and screaming. Honestly, it's for the best that people like that leave. When they take message forums so seriously as to allow it to become "their life" so to speak, it becomes obvious you need a break.
I wonder if the errant, serial whiner has yet posted in this thread. (I have my suspicions)
Put some clip-ons on you horn-rims, climb out of your mother's basement, act like a man, stand up on your hind legs for a brief moment and tell us you are proud of yourself.
Damn... I really dislike using the word ugly compared to anything living... just feels wrong, but good God...
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Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:
Snicker...Well, here is an infidel they can try to Fatwa with
Not going to lie... that's pretty hot, and not because I want to be that dude, because I'm not into that. But if I was a single man, and didn't already know my wife...
Scanners is just one of those movies that you always can recall at a moments notice. The time we spent pausing the VHS tape at just the right spot must have stretched the shat out of the magnetic alignment.
I am going to respectfully disagree. Jazzman, while providing an insurmountable of Fiero related information, erased his history here so EVERYONE has to suffer. He made that specifically clear upon burning up in Earth's atmosphere during his decent.
Originally posted by Tony Kania: I am going to respectfully disagree. Jazzman, while providing an insurmountable of Fiero related information, erased his history here so EVERYONE has to suffer. He made that specifically clear upon burning up in Earth's atmosphere during his decent.
Shat happens, but we wright our own path.
I partially disagree. Yes, in the end, everyone Is responsible for their own decisions. But it also seems very odd that there is hardly ever any mention of those that poked & prodded & helped drive him to the very end that they seen coming, and in there own way helped to build. Not one person ever takes responsibility for their part in THAT part of it.
And these are the very same people who would condemn someone yelling "Jump!" to a person threatening to leap from a building...
I'm betting Jazzman didn't think it was HIM that was punishing others by removing the valuable information he provided to others. He probably thought that it was YOU (those that continued to poke & prod him just for the glee of it) that caused that information to be erased.
I guess the question is, in these situations, are we more interested is harming someone, or helping someone? Even when that someone doesn't seem to "deserve" help? I wonder what The Bible would say concerning this?
Maybe some of our more knowledgeable members in this aspect could speak on it. My understanding is quite limited in that respect.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-08-2017).]
Ya know, people gave Jazz a bunch of crap (some he deserved) but all in all, he was a nice guy. Super helpful, too.
I liked the guy... and I was trying to be nice to him early on, but he became so angry at everyone, that he took a scorched Earth type of attitude, and literally blasted everyone, even people who were trying to be nice. He was always screaming about decorum and something else, while berating people for their views. He went off the deep-end like dobey did near the end. I wonder how Jazzman's doing right now under Trump?
Yes, in the end, everyone Is responsible for their own decisions. But it also seems very odd that there is hardly ever any mention of those that poked & prodded & helped drive him to the very end that they seen coming, and in there own way helped to build. Not one person ever takes responsibility for their part in THAT part of it.
And these are the very same people who would condemn someone yelling "Jump!" to a person threatening to leap from a building...
Group much?
I am an advocate for responsibility. If any of the last paragraph is directed at me, then I kindly will say that you are VERY incorrect about me. I am OK with that though. No foul on you, and no disrespect in this post back.
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I'm betting Jazzman didn't think it was HIM that was punishing others by removing the valuable information he provided to others. He probably thought that it was YOU (those that continued to poke & prod him just for the glee of it) that caused that information to be erased.
The thread is in Archives. He knew what he was doing. You are incorrect about this assumption.
quote
I guess the question is, in these situations, are we more interested is harming someone, or helping someone? Even when that someone doesn't seem to "deserve" help? I wonder what The Bible would say concerning this?
I will help anyone deserving. Undeserving is where I am able to use my OWN judgement freely and without reparations from others.
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Maybe some of our more knowledgeable members in this aspect could speak on it. My understanding is quite limited in that respect.
You have every right to speak on it freely. But, please do not forget that we reserve the right also. I find that is where folks get in a twist lately. Threedog can call out "everyone" and it is ok, but if you hit the child with facts, he cries his azz off. So, again, I am allowed to judge. Folks forget this.
Take this with a grain of salt. I know that you can get your panties all wadded up, but that is not my intentions. I am not able to follow YOUR flow. Like you cannot follow mine. Forget not though that you look down upon me, yet I work for no man.
Originally posted by Boondawg: Not one person ever takes responsibility for their part in THAT part of it.
What does that mean ? I know I jumped his azz every time I had to hear him complain about something he chose to read and censor who wrote it. Responsibility ? I am not a braggart.
Really sounds like the "report this post" should be fixed not just b1tched about. It was only implemented as google wanted to pull ads, not at all for "our" protection. Cash speaks volumes.
I partially disagree. Yes, in the end, everyone Is responsible for their own decisions. But it also seems very odd that there is hardly ever any mention of those that poked & prodded & helped drive him to the very end that they seen coming, and in there own way helped to build. Not one person ever takes responsibility for their part in THAT part of it.
Drive him? Hmmm......... I remember that time frame fairly well and it seemed to me that 84Bill was "pedal to the metal" all on his own. I won't claim or deny anything, Bill was "nuts" IMHO and seeking self-destruction. Similar to Dobey, one did not have to do more than disagree for either of them to "launch". While I won't suggest I miss either one, I will say that if they had modified their behavior slightly, they'd both still be here. I'm sure there are folks who would like to see me leave, it is what it is but, IMHO, when walking through the barnyard and knowing there's are piles of fresh crap all over the place and an individual decides to dance right on through it without caring what they step in or on, then one should expect to have crap on their boots.
And yet, some are surprised when they slip and fall into that same crap even though, all the warning signs are there. Both 84Bill and Dobey had plenty of warning. ------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-09-2017).]
My point is that in extreme conflicts around here, the one's claiming the level-headed ground don't seem to be level-headed enough to back-off of the one they claim is off-the-rails. Why would one keep pushing at someone they see is obviously self-destructing?
Wouldn't the rational high ground suggest attempting to calm that person, and if that fails simply ignoring that person? Either way, it's definitely not the appropriate time for insults & name-calling.
I guess the real question is, in these sorts of confrontations, what is the desired end-game? Are you trying to verbally help, or harm the other person?
And if you simply don't care one way or the other, why continue to engage at all?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-09-2017).]
What does that mean ? I know I jumped his azz every time I had to hear him complain about something he chose to read and censor who wrote it. Responsibility ? I am not a braggart.
You didn't HAVE to hear him complain. Or jump his ass. You chose to.
I think a lot of it is related to the way the human brain is wired and reacts to stimuli, and even though this is an internet forum viewed on the screen the reaction is exactly the same, perhaps even harsher, that it would be to a similar person or situation in real life. In other words, people are triggered (yup, I actually said that ) by situations or concepts that have proven negative or harmfull to them in the past.
Probably even harsher because here the only real response is a keyboard while in real life there are other options (IE, a lot of times just a facial expression is enough to end BS)
I know in my case the 2 "triggers" are religion because I have spent over 40 years fighting off people (mostly family, a couple of employers) in real life who are too stupid to understand the concept of "I said no, now **** off, shut up and go away with that crap" AND that war has cost me immeasurable pain, grief and loss. So now I have a knee-jerk "fight" response if I perceive any of them as being forced on me....actually, for a variety of reasons, MOST humans do react poorly to thought-and-belief control. Or power-seekers in general.
The other "trigger" is waaayyyy to complicated and political to try and describe, but it still boils down to pretty much the same power struggle---they've been told "no" now stop pestering or you WILL be stopped---again something that is much easier to handle with more options in real life as opposed to a screen.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 07-09-2017).]
You didn't HAVE to hear him complain. Or jump his ass. You chose to.
Personal Responsibility.
As you direct others.
Hey, just enjoy this day. I am not here to destroy yours. Not in the very least. But, I have chosen to write my words. Not you. My choice. Freedom of speech and shat. You find issue with so many of us, judge freely, yet do not allow for the same? I find that hard to swallow. Swallow, that is my favorite bird.
Originally posted by Tony Kania: As you direct others.
Hey, just enjoy this day. I am not here to destroy yours. Not in the very least. But, I have chosen to write my words. Not you. My choice. Freedom of speech and shat. You find issue with so many of us, judge freely, yet do not allow for the same? I find that hard to swallow. Swallow, that is my favorite bird.
I am directing no one. I am trying to silence no one. I am expressing an opinion.
I am directing no one. I am trying to silence no one. I am expressing an opinion.
You are not a victim.
As it should be.
As it should be.
As we should be allowed.
I am not saying that I am a victim.
I am so very much not sorry that you are grumpy at me. I can clearly understand Lambonuts opinion of you, but I still try and extend a hand? I must be the crazy one. I have offered help to you on several occasions as of late only to be bypassed. I offered solace about your Wife and truck, and still nothing?
Tell you what Boondawg, you keep on being a life long pinsetter, and I will continue to be my own boss. Next time I go bowling for fun, I will be sure to give respect to all of the other pinsetters out there in your honor.
If you can not take it, don't ****ing give it back.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 07-09-2017).]
My point is that in extreme conflicts around here, the one's claiming the level-headed ground don't seem to be level-headed enough to back-off of the one they claim is off-the-rails. Why would one keep pushing at someone they see is obviously self-destructing?
Wouldn't the rational high ground suggest attempting to calm that person, and if that fails simply ignoring that person? Either way, it's definitely not the appropriate time for insults & name-calling.
I guess the real question is, in these sorts of confrontations, what is the desired end-game? Are you trying to verbally help, or harm the other person?
And if you simply don't care one way or the other, why continue to engage at all?
All I'm going to say is this, I tried ignoring Dobey, it simply didn't work. Dobey and 84 Bill have/had a lot in common, both were determined to get banned IMHO. Behavior modification is not something that occurs often on this forum. High ground? Well, when stuff hits the fan, does it matter whether it's from the top of the pile or the bottom? Mud slinging is dirty, both Dobey and 84Bill were very good at it. I feel no sympathy for them.
Trying to hurt or help? Neither.................. They, you, and I have positions on many different issues, some we may agree on, others, maybe not. We are all responsible for what we say and do and should be prepared to live with the results of what we start. Regardless, making demands (like 84Bill), calling people whatever and being a jerk will typically get a result. It's not like they didn't know it was coming and could have easily turned the situation around by modifying their behavior. They didn't and now they are gone.
As far as the original topic of reporting posts, it most assuredly is not me. I did report some posts that Dobey made when I felt he crossed the line. Don't regret it one bit. I'm still surprised he stuck around with that huge red bar for so long. It still doesn't make sense to me unless, he was receiving "protection" from Cliff for some reason. I have no proof of that but, Dobey stuck around an awfully long time before he was finally banned. I distinctly remember seeing that Dobey was on "Probation" for a short period of time and then all of a sudden, he was off "Probation". How's that happen? It didn't take very long when 84Bill went south. Doesn't really matter, it's Cliff's house and we are here and must participate within Cliff's rules. I have no problem with that. ------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-09-2017).]
Originally posted by Boondawg: You didn't HAVE to hear him complain. Or jump his ass. You chose to.
Personal Responsibility.
Heh heh he. I chose too do so, . Jazzman would insert himself into a thread he disagreed with, more than multiple times. I actually thought he was begging for food and I fed him. Yeah, I chose to.
I work around guys in twelve hours of sun, Texas heat. Or frigid cold. A lot of times it was a bad azz rain storm or a combination of everything. I would jump their azz too when they complain. Like I don't know if it is hot, cold, or raining.
The only one I choose to listen to, complaining, is my wife. No wonder I am out of patience, .
Jazman, ... he reported threads to Cliff, many times. Daily I think. Demanding that Cliff ... Jazzman was instrumental in us having to have to pick/label topics before posting. Then he biatched about how a conversation drifted to politics that he didn't like, because some of us are not snowflakes who filtered their topics and didn't know someone had to label it politics to protect JazzMan.
Yet talk about a political topic he liked ....
Jazzman wanted Cliff to enable an ignore function, because, he (JazzMan) had no personal responsibility.
, Boondawg, you need to quit worrying about something I choose to do but thank you for your love, .
I was not a member when this Jazzman was here but, answer ne this.. as this is food for thought.
When with buddies.. or Hell with it as it is a childish as school kids.. When you where in school, and a person bullied you or made fun of you. Did you do their homework for them? Write their reports for them, correct their ruff draft for them?? Me, nope.. So why would a member here that is getting the same treatment, going to leave tech and info behind for those that doing the same things an 5-17y/o does in school..? And you think only he was childish!!!.. You'd not get in a bar fight and then fix the guys car.. Well you would if your Irish , but we fight just to fight.. But You get my drift..
This is the downfall of most forums.. Throughout history the brilliant minds tended to not play nice with others.. And this is very true in motorsports and design and music.. Yet forums, do everything they can to push these type away.. here it's a rating bar and member poking the bear so to speak. Other forums it's moderators that play the popularity game.. Not knowing Jazzman I can see why he deleted all the info he had posted. You don't give to the ungrateful, not your kids, not the needy,(willingly) not in a hobby.. Yet many were oddly awed when he removed it all.
[This message has been edited by Keel (edited 07-09-2017).]
I am so very much not sorry that you are grumpy at me. I can clearly understand Lambonuts opinion of you, but I still try and extend a hand? I must be the crazy one. I have offered help to you on several occasions as of late only to be bypassed. I offered solace about your Wife and truck, and still nothing?
Tell you what Boondawg, you keep on being a life long pinsetter, and I will continue to be my own boss. Next time I go bowling for fun, I will be sure to give respect to all of the other pinsetters out there in your honor.
If you can not take it, don't ****ing give it back.
I will respond by simply quoting your own words. You make my point better than I ever could. Thank you.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 07-09-2017).]
Heh heh he. I chose too do so, . Jazzman would insert himself into a thread he disagreed with, more than multiple times. I actually thought he was begging for food and I fed him. Yeah, I chose to.
I work around guys in twelve hours of sun, Texas heat. Or frigid cold. A lot of times it was a bad azz rain storm or a combination of everything. I would jump their azz too when they complain. Like I don't know if it is hot, cold, or raining.
The only one I choose to listen to, complaining, is my wife. No wonder I am out of patience, .
Jazman, ... he reported threads to Cliff, many times. Daily I think. Demanding that Cliff ... Jazzman was instrumental in us having to have to pick/label topics before posting. Then he biatched about how a conversation drifted to politics that he didn't like, because some of us are not snowflakes who filtered their topics and didn't know someone had to label it politics to protect JazzMan.
Yet talk about a political topic he liked ....
Jazzman wanted Cliff to enable an ignore function, because, he (JazzMan) had no personal responsibility.
, Boondawg, you need to quit worrying about something I choose to do but thank you for your love, .
You seemed to have missed my point. I'm talking about taking the highroad. I'm talking about not adding to one's misery.
You seem to be talking about why Jazzman got what he "deserved"...
I was not a member when this Jazzman was here but, answer ne this.. as this is food for thought.
When with buddies.. or Hell with it as it is a childish as school kids.. When you where in school, and a person bullied you or made fun of you. Did you do their homework for them? Write their reports for them, correct their ruff draft for them?? Me, nope.. So why would a member here that is getting the same treatment, going to leave tech and info behind for those that doing the same things an 5-17y/o does in school..? And you think only he was childish!!!.. You'd not get in a bar fight and then fix the guys car.. Well you would if your Irish , but we fight just to fight.. But You get my drift..
This is the downfall of most forums.. Throughout history the brilliant minds tended to not play nice with others.. And this is very true in motorsports and design and music.. Yet forums, do everything they can to push these type away.. here it's a rating bar and member poking the bear so to speak. Other forums it's moderators that play the popularity game.. Not knowing Jazzman I can see why he deleted all the info he had posted. You don't give to the ungrateful, not your kids, not the needy,(willingly) not in a hobby.. Yet many were oddly awed when he removed it all.
Some words of wisdom is this post. I tend to agree with you. But, just one comment (there isn't an answer to it), OT is where most of the members get in a wreck. True some are a bit abrasive in other sections, but dancing around the flames of social hot button topics is where most "negative ratings" come from. This is just the nature of the beast, but the problem with most banned members is that they tended to hold grudges made in OT and carried them over to the other sections. VERY bad pattern, seen over and over.
I was not a member when this Jazzman was here but, answer ne this.. as this is food for thought.
When with buddies.. or Hell with it as it is a childish as school kids.. When you where in school, and a person bullied you or made fun of you. Did you do their homework for them? Write their reports for them, correct their ruff draft for them?? Me, nope.. So why would a member here that is getting the same treatment, going to leave tech and info behind for those that doing the same things an 5-17y/o does in school..? And you think only he was childish!!!.. You'd not get in a bar fight and then fix the guys car.. Well you would if your Irish , but we fight just to fight.. But You get my drift..
This is the downfall of most forums.. Throughout history the brilliant minds tended to not play nice with others.. And this is very true in motorsports and design and music.. Yet forums, do everything they can to push these type away.. here it's a rating bar and member poking the bear so to speak. Other forums it's moderators that play the popularity game.. Not knowing Jazzman I can see why he deleted all the info he had posted. You don't give to the ungrateful, not your kids, not the needy,(willingly) not in a hobby.. Yet many where oddly awed when he removed it all.
This is a misrepresentation. I understand what you are trying to get at but one thing needs... a response and so does another. The first is the red bar fight and not helping another with a red bar. I have seen people trigger the insta-ban and Cliff toss him a positive just to see if his rating would un-ban them. It did and they realized and modified their behavior enough that they went on to be long term members. Heck they are still members even though one I can think of posts rarely and another has jumped ship. In the case of the one who jumped ship, Kris was still abrasive to others on the forum, but he learned to temper it with civility. Kris gained positive in his bar but kept a nice budding amount of red. Despite this, in times of hardship people here on the forum went out of their way to help him, Fats being one of those who went really far in that help. Bdub, started out having everyone think he was Shauna from the old. He turned it around more than Kris but still rubbed many wrong. If you search you will see people offering him help in multiple threads as well. You will even see a thread where he went down to Texas and spent some time visiting Maryjane ( I think he met up with cliffw at some point as well. Xercsess ( sp ) was part of the nemisis and pontiackid86 bunch back in the day. He had many problems later in his life and was well on his way to self destruction, yet when he was traveling back to Philli for his dads funeral ( I think it was ), I hosted him a nice steak dinner and a place to sleep for a night of his travel ( I also gave him a few things I had extra of to help him out because I knew he was on pretty hard times ). The point is the forum is filled with people helping those they have had disagreements with or exchanged harsh words with. Many a member who you see bickering viciously with another member would gladly sit down and have a beer or a dinner with them if they were in town. This is a forum and we argue political idiologies, religion and even approaches to how one chooses to lead their life but in the end we know there are real people with real struggles and real lives on the other side of those words. Their opinions we may disagree with. Their approaches we may disagree with. Their humanity most would respect and honor.
The other thing is the idea of the kid in class being bullied. Did the kid in the class stand up and say "Hey! F---stick! Your ugly and your mom smells like a ape!!!"? No, he got picked on because he looked like a easy target. He didn't berate or belittle other members endlessly. Even those who had never done anything saw the bitter end of his tongue. Nope, he got picked on for looking helpless and awkward. That's not what happens here. Dobey, 84bill, Jazzman and I will add another WhiteDevil88... Heck throw uhlanistan in there to, they got the attention they did by slinging feces around everywhere they went. That's not saying they were not poked and prodded. Most of them were as became apparent by the specifically aimed threads with them mentioned in the title. I still stand by my assertion that such things are wrong and call them out when I see them. Yet, I am still here. I still have about a 75% green to red ratio. Which shows you can point challenge others here without insulting them endlessly. One will work to help change others or at least promote civility, the other will only beget more of the same from others.
People suggest Dobey had some kind of protection from Cliff? No, what he had was the same core of protection that kept Stan and WD88 around. Dobey had a core group who would give him a positive nudge as often as they could to try to keep him from getting banned. It's funny, because I was here for all of those names. Though I will admit, I joined when 84bill was flaming out. I got into a discussion with him before it happened, my first real political thread I got involved in on the forum. Back then, a large number of green was a protection of sorts as it took quite a large number of red to counter it and become a ban. The forum had enough traffic then to make that still a threat so it curbed behavior to an extent. Declining traffic caused that green to actually become protection as there just wasn't enough posters to counteract the green enough to result in a ban. This made the forum a real brutal place for awhile. Cliff introduced the trending arrow and suddenly people lost that green bar protection. No longer did they need 2 or 3 or whatever number of negs to positives to get banned. All they needed now was enough negative nudges to move the arrow left all the way. But, Cliff built in something to protect it from abuse. You see rather than just allow a negative nudge, people can nudge the arrow the other way by giving a positive nudge. That's what happens in cases like Dobie, WD88 and Stan. Some give a neg nudge others a positive and it takes awhile for the one to accumulate more than the other before a ban happens. Say you need 50 nudges left to ban and the person gets 10 each week left and 5 right, it will take 10 weeks for the needed number to happen. But, Cliff also made nudges fall off after every so many days ( he never said how many ) so each week you may only see 3 of those nudges hold over to the next week and you could end up with 15 or 20 weeks before a person gets enough negs to be banned by the nudge arrow.
Originally posted by Boondawg: You seemed to have missed my point. I'm talking about taking the highroad. I'm talking about not adding to one's misery.
You seem to be talking about why Jazzman got what he "deserved"...
I am not missing your point.
You talk about this mythical high road. You go over the mountain, I will go around. Or build a tunnel. You talk like I added to Jazzman's misery. What would you have done ? Not talk about politics he didn't like because he was a snowflake ? This is a discussion board and he could not handle the discussion on this forum and set out to have his way. He added to his own misery, as I do mine.
This is a misrepresentation. I understand what you are trying to get at but one thing needs... a response and so does another. The first is the red bar fight and not helping another with a red bar. I have seen people trigger the insta-ban and Cliff toss him a positive just to see if his rating would un-ban them. It did and they realized and modified their behavior enough that they went on to be long term members. Heck they are still members even though one I can think of posts rarely and another has jumped ship. In the case of the one who jumped ship, Kris was still abrasive to others on the forum, but he learned to temper it with civility. Kris gained positive in his bar but kept a nice budding amount of red. Despite this, in times of hardship people here on the forum went out of their way to help him, Fats being one of those who went really far in that help. Bdub, started out having everyone think he was Shauna from the old. He turned it around more than Kris but still rubbed many wrong. If you search you will see people offering him help in multiple threads as well. You will even see a thread where he went down to Texas and spent some time visiting Maryjane ( I think he met up with cliffw at some point as well. Xercsess ( sp ) was part of the nemisis and pontiackid86 bunch back in the day. He had many problems later in his life and was well on his way to self destruction, yet when he was traveling back to Philli for his dads funeral ( I think it was ), I hosted him a nice steak dinner and a place to sleep for a night of his travel ( I also gave him a few things I had extra of to help him out because I knew he was on pretty hard times ). The point is the forum is filled with people helping those they have had disagreements with or exchanged harsh words with. Many a member who you see bickering viciously with another member would gladly sit down and have a beer or a dinner with them if they were in town. This is a forum and we argue political idiologies, religion and even approaches to how one chooses to lead their life but in the end we know there are real people with real struggles and real lives on the other side of those words. Their opinions we may disagree with. Their approaches we may disagree with. Their humanity most would respect and honor.
The other thing is the idea of the kid in class being bullied. Did the kid in the class stand up and say "Hey! F---stick! Your ugly and your mom smells like a ape!!!"? No, he got picked on because he looked like a easy target. He didn't berate or belittle other members endlessly. Even those who had never done anything saw the bitter end of his tongue. Nope, he got picked on for looking helpless and awkward. That's not what happens here. Dobey, 84bill, Jazzman and I will add another WhiteDevil88... Heck throw uhlanistan in there to, they got the attention they did by slinging feces around everywhere they went. That's not saying they were not poked and prodded. Most of them were as became apparent by the specifically aimed threads with them mentioned in the title. I still stand by my assertion that such things are wrong and call them out when I see them. Yet, I am still here. I still have about a 75% green to red ratio. Which shows you can point challenge others here without insulting them endlessly. One will work to help change others or at least promote civility, the other will only beget more of the same from others.
People suggest Dobey had some kind of protection from Cliff? No, what he had was the same core of protection that kept Stan and WD88 around. Dobey had a core group who would give him a positive nudge as often as they could to try to keep him from getting banned. It's funny, because I was here for all of those names. Though I will admit, I joined when 84bill was flaming out. I got into a discussion with him before it happened, my first real political thread I got involved in on the forum. Back then, a large number of green was a protection of sorts as it took quite a large number of red to counter it and become a ban. The forum had enough traffic then to make that still a threat so it curbed behavior to an extent. Declining traffic caused that green to actually become protection as there just wasn't enough posters to counteract the green enough to result in a ban. This made the forum a real brutal place for awhile. Cliff introduced the trending arrow and suddenly people lost that green bar protection. No longer did they need 2 or 3 or whatever number of negs to positives to get banned. All they needed now was enough negative nudges to move the arrow left all the way. But, Cliff built in something to protect it from abuse. You see rather than just allow a negative nudge, people can nudge the arrow the other way by giving a positive nudge. That's what happens in cases like Dobie, WD88 and Stan. Some give a neg nudge others a positive and it takes awhile for the one to accumulate more than the other before a ban happens. Say you need 50 nudges left to ban and the person gets 10 each week left and 5 right, it will take 10 weeks for the needed number to happen. But, Cliff also made nudges fall off after every so many days ( he never said how many ) so each week you may only see 3 of those nudges hold over to the next week and you could end up with 15 or 20 weeks before a person gets enough negs to be banned by the nudge arrow.
I have been here long enough to recognize all those names, even names those members used to come back after they have been banned, and the previous name used (in some cases). I even helped Pontiackid get across the Country during some hard times he fell on. Met up with him in Coalinga at the Harris Ranch rest stop area. Gave him a few things and on a bus he went. Ironically you mentioned people who are at odds with other members having "a beer" or such, I just sent a PM to a member that I have regular "disagreements" with. I offered to get together with this member. I hope that some day, soon we will accually do it. The first "beer" is on me.
You seem to be talking about why Jazzman got what he "deserved"...
I don't know what Jazzman deserved, I know he got what his behavior begged for.
The fact that he went back and deleted all his other posts in Tech speaks volumes about him IMHO.
We can discuss most topics without getting upset but Jazzman always was looking for a fight about something. Just my opinion. When he was "hospitalized", I went so far as to call him and try to cheer him up. That, was a waste of time and effort.
BTW, I didn't get that PM about anyone buying me a beer. That's OK though, I gave up the "spirits" when I turned 21.
------------------ Ron
Isn't it strange that after a bombing, everyone blames the bomber, his upbringing, his environment, his culture, his mental state but … after a shooting, the problem is the gun.... Open your frigg'n minds, think about all the other tools that can be made into WMDs.
I sincerely hope that life is never discovered on another planet because, sure as hell Progressives and Socialists will want to send them money.
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 07-09-2017).]
I don't know what Jazzman deserved, I know he got what his behavior begged for.
The fact that he went back and deleted all his other posts in Tech speaks volumes about him IMHO.
We can discuss most topics without getting upset but Jazzman always was looking for a fight about something. Just my opinion. When he was "hospitalized", I went so far as to call him and try to cheer him up. That, was a waste of time and effort.
BTW, I didn't get that PM about anyone buying me a beer. That's OK though, I gave up the "spirits" when I turned 21.
When Jazzman deleted his posts, I think he had every right to, he posted it. When someone gets banned all their post should go away as people say "we don't want you or your info here" Saying "you should go away, but all the helpful info you provided should stay" is wrong, well at least not letting them delete their info, if they want. People should have control over what THEY post. As they are the author, and usually anything written by an author is their intellectual property.
Religion and/or politics should NOT be tolerated on a car forum, (as most other car/any forums don't). If you want help with your PC, find a computer forum, if you need help with your kids, find a family forum, but keep a car forum to cars. Last thing I or other want, is to look up Fiero info and find a detailed prostate exam. But Religion and/or politics, people WILL ALWAYS fight. Get rid of it.
With the rating system, no one should be able to be banned by members, but should throw up a red flag to Cliff and let him decide, he is the ONLY moderator of this forum.
[This message has been edited by sardonyx247 (edited 07-10-2017).]
The time we spent pausing the VHS tape at just the right spot must have stretched the shat out of the magnetic alignment.
You find issue with so many of us, judge freely, yet do not allow for the same? I find that hard to swallow. Swallow, that is my favorite bird.
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