I see no difference between a so called 'assault' rifle with a magazine, and a pistol with a magazine...other than accuracy at greater range. None of these shooters aim...they point and shoot, usually at close range. One of my handguns even uses the same exact ammo my so called assault rifle does. They keep referring to guns like these as being the same as military guns...they are not. A 9mm or a 1911 handgun IS the same as military. So in actuality a 1911 is a military gun and an AR 15 is not. Saying a handgun is no match is ridiculous. You can fire off a 10 round magazine from a pistol just as fast as you can 10 rounds from a rifle, and like I said, some even use the same bullets. At close range, both have the same accuracy. In a close fight id even prefer a handgun over an awkward rifle...no matter how 'scary' the assault gun looks.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 02-23-2018).]
AR15/M16 is not awkward at close range. They are a very balanced weapon and the tiny increased time it takes to swing the 20" muzzle around compared to a 1911 is negligible.
A report released Friday claims four of Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel’s deputies waited outside Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School while the attack was occurring. On February 22 Breitbart News reported that one deputy resigned after it was learned that he was on scene but failed to control Nikolas Cruz. Sheriff Israel told ABC 13 that video shows the deputy, Scott Peterson, “arrive at the west side of Building 12” and “take a position” outside the school — but never go inside. The sheriff’s office moved to suspend Peterson, who resigned before the suspension could take place.
Now CNN reports that the Coral Springs police officers claim three other Broward County deputies were outside the school but failed to go inside as well. They quote “Coral Springs sources” who said the three “deputies had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles” when Coral Springs officers arrived. They said “not one of [the deputies] had gone into the school.”
The sources indicate other Broward County deputies arrived on scene, and two of those new arrivals joined with Coral Springs officers and entered the building.
The sources said, “Coral Springs police were stunned and upset that the four original Broward County Sheriff’s deputies who were first on the scene did not appear to join them as they entered the school.”
Coral Springs Police Department public information officer Sgt. Carla Kmiotek would not comment on what Broward County deputies did or did not do. Rather, “The Coral Springs Police Department will speak on behalf of our officers and their response in that incident,” she said.
Getting worse, is right. I generally don't much question another's bravery or commitment but this is depressing. Yes, it's easy to monday morning qb any situation, but considering the inclination LEOs have shown in recent years to lethally protect their own individual lives, I do wonder what went wrong here when it came to protecting those lives of these children and faculty.
It sounds like the LEOs were operating on info that was exaggerated by their sources. Imagine how a story can grow in a school.....especially in today's charged atmosphere. I would much rather a response for a what turns out to be a non-threat, than to have no response.....
And with that said, I can see this getting out of hand for a while....
Just gonna leave this here, I don't know what I think...
At first glance, Lippel said she thought the shooter could be a police officer because of the way he was dressed -- in "full metal garb" complete with helmet, face mask and bulletproof armor. https://www.yahoo.com/gma/f...news-topstories.html
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 02-24-2018).]
I can speak from experience, in that response time in a rampage shooting, is essential. The first few minutes are critical and that is when all the initial killing is done and the victims are most vulnerable. To hear that an officer with a weapon failed to respond for whatever reason is just incomprehensible. He will have to live with himself for the rest of his life. How will he ever face those kids, any child, or their parents knowing he cowered.
In my particular circumstance, only one person passed away, though six people were shot. The local police were in the middle of a shift change, received the call, and were able to respond with their long weapons (M4s). They had also been recently trained in how to respond to a rampage shooter and how to sweep a building. They were on site, and moved into a V formation. They killed him and by responding so quickly saved many lives.
I believe the position at the school was given to a officer who probably never expected, nor did his superiors, that he would someday have to face such a predicament. I expect this was a cushy position, mostly wondering around, and citing kids for smoking in the bathroom. Possibly this was an older gentlemen who had done his time on the streets, and was looking close to retiring. That's who gets these school jobs.
Into the future these officers need to be well trained in single person response, know every corner of the building, and be alert to those high risk kids. It's not a position to be handed to some officer who is tired of working the beat and is in good with the chief.
There is no choice at this point. Forget gun control. The schools need to be defended. That means the all entries to the campus, and also to the building. And, most definitely an armed guard, at least one, on campus at all times.
I believe the position at the school was given to a officer who probably never expected, nor did his superiors, that he would someday have to face such a predicament. I expect this was a cushy position, mostly wondering around, and citing kids for smoking in the bathroom. Possibly this was an older gentlemen who had done his time on the streets, and was looking close to retiring. That's who gets these school jobs.
Possibly, but conjecture as well. You are describing the job of a member of faculty or even student that is a hall monitor, not that of a uniformed police resource officer.
I cannot imagine any police officer in this day and age that doesn't expect, in one way or another, to come face to face with danger. Right out of academy, they know this and will explain it to anyone who inquires about it. It gets no easier, regardless of the assignment. IOW, it comes with the job and territory and they all know it right from the git go. They aren't armed, for no reason.
Ok the other day a friend of mine had a good idea I thought why not build the Police station right on school grounds i know you cant do this on every school grounds or right next to the school grounds and split the police stations up and make them smaller but more of them so you cover all schools this would cut down on the cost while increasing security at and around the schools.
[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 02-25-2018).]
Another option is to have auxillary offices in each school. Off patrol officers could use those offices to file reports and other paperwork. Many police stations do not always have room to seat all of the off patrol officers and could serve "double duty".
Just keep in mind, most of these options/suggestions probably won't stop the killings, but some would certainly tend to decrease or minimize the casualties once the event begins to unfold. It's not like other crimes, (robbery, burglary, long term serial killers, rape etc) where the perpetrators believe they have a chance of success and a plan to escape...mass victim killers they don't think that far in to it. Their primary goal is the notoriety, and they don't really care if it is posthumous or not.
The posse comitatus thing probably wouldn't fly in Israel. But, I'm not sure that article is completely accurate either..especially the 'in both instances armed teachers killed the attackers" part. I suppose it depends which news article one wants to believe. They do have what I would deem a pretty restrictive 'gun law' too. https://www.cbsnews.com/new...ns-in-schools-claim/
The posse comitatus thing probably wouldn't fly in Israel. But, I'm not sure that article is completely accurate either..especially the 'in both instances armed teachers killed the attackers" part. I suppose it depends which news article one wants to believe. They do have what I would deem a pretty restrictive 'gun law' too. https://www.cbsnews.com/new...ns-in-schools-claim/
I would also be very suspicious of the 2012 CBS News article you cited when it says things like:
"Soldiers who carry assault rifles off base during their regular or reserves service turn them in when they complete their tours of duty."
Having been in Israel 8 times in the past 10 years and being intimately familiar with the IDF, I know for a fact that all Israeli military are *required* to have their weapon at all times until they leave the military. The "tour of duty" phraseology is purposely misleading.
"Automatic weapons of the type Lanza used to gun down his victims are banned for private ownership in Israel."
No need to go into that "automatic weapons" lie other than to point out that virtually ALL of the 600,000+ weapons in the constant possession of members of the Israeli active and reserve forces are fully automatic. In addition to that number, civilian, private security personnel are also allowed fully automatic weapons.
Although anecdotal, my son and his wife visited Israel for their first time this past year. He called me from Tel Aviv and said; "It's incredible. I've never seen so many people in public toting around Tavors and Galils ! (both are a type of automatic weapon),
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-27-2018).]
That pretty blond lady in the photo I added to my post up above has a PhD. in child development.
She is also employed full time as a teacher.
She also has a CCW and carries daily.
She is amazingly proficient with both a handgun and a rifle and I am often astonished at her accuracy on the range.
She is also pissed off that she isn't allowed to carry her concealed weapon at the school.
The democrats do not speak for all teachers.
The family teachers like your lady friend, who die, and those wounded or even traumatized, should sue because they were not allowed to protect themselves.
Hmm ... can private school teachers carry while at work ?
The family teachers like your lady friend, who die, and those wounded or even traumatized, should sue because they were not allowed to protect themselves.
Hmm ... can private school teachers carry while at work ?
Cliff,
That's my son and daughter-in-law in that photo. It was taken in Jerusalem, Israel last September.
While I do appreciate that you would think that an old coot like me would have a "lady friend" as beautiful as her, the fact is, she's my son's wife and the mother of 1 of my Grandchildren.
Interesting question about teachers in private schools concealed carrying.
I don't know what the law is here in Florida on that but your question has prompted me to find out.
She teaches in a public school though and we already know the Florida law on that.
It also brings up the question in my mind regarding public school shootings vs private schools. I may be wrong but somehow I think that nearly all of the school mass shootings have been in public schools which obviously then provokes a lot of other questions.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-27-2018).]
Basically what we have is a systemic failure, on multiple levels. And as a result, many people died (again). Both the Sheriff's office and the FBI were warned about the shooter... multiple times over the course of several months. The shooter himself said on social media that he planned to shoot up the school. The FBI and the Sheriff's office did nothing.
On the day of the shooting, the school resource officer (a Sheriff's deputy) failed to engage the shooter. Three more Sheriff's deputies arrived on scene, and they also failed to engage the shooter. All 4 of them were seen hiding behind patrol vehicles. The shooter was able to go on his rampage and then flee the scene, without ever being confronted by the Sheriff's deputies. He was later found and arrested by local police.
To add insult to injury, the Broward County Sheriff seems to have no remorse and no guilt for his department's failure to do their jobs. He even has the gall to make smartass remarks when people question him about it.
But the systemic failure doesn't stop there. Now the newsmedia gets involved. They seem to be more interested in pushing a political agenda than reporting the facts. So almost immediately, the newsmedia turns the shooting into a referendum on gun control. They get the Broward County Sheriff to go on TV and blab about how gun control would have stopped the shooting. (Actually, the sheriff deputies doing their jobs would have stopped it!) And then they try to blame the shooting on the NRA, so-called 'assault rifles', bump-fire stocks, etc.
On a side note, here are some of the smartass comments that the Broward County Sheriff has made:
-- When told that he was being accused of corruption, he said "Lions don't care about the opinions of sheep". -- When asked if he would take responsibility for his deputy's failure to act, he said "I gave him a gun. I gave him a badge. I gave him the training. If he didn’t have the heart to go in, that’s not my responsibility.” -- When asked why his department didn't act on the many warnings they were given about the shooter, he said “I’m the sheriff. My name’s on the door. The people responsible are the ones who took the calls and didn’t follow up on it."
What a jackass!
[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 02-28-2018).]
TAPPER: Are you really not taking any responsibility for the multiple red flags that were brought to the attention of the Broward sheriff’s office about this shooter before this incident, whether it was people near him, close to him calling the police--
ISRAEL: Jake, Jake — Jake, I can only take responsibility for what I knew about. I exercised my due diligence. I’ve given amazing leadership to this agency--
TAPPER: 'Amazing leadership?'
ISRAEL: Yes, Jake. There’s a lot of things we’ve done throughout this — this is — you don’t measure a person’s leadership by a deputy not going in to — these deputies received the training they needed.
TAPPER: Maybe you measure somebody’s leadership by whether or not they protect the community. You’ve listed 23 incidents before the shooting involving the shooter and still, nothing was done to keep guns out of his hands, to make sure that the school was protected, to make sure you were keeping an eye on him — I don’t understand how you can sit there and claim amazing leadership?
There is a lot of talk about tearing down a school that is the site of a mass shooting and building a memorial. I understand the sentiment, but I have an alternative idea that might do more good in the long run, and be easier on the taxpayers.....
Rather than razing these buildings, simply put up a plaque as a memorial, maybe a quiet green space.
And then turn the building into a First Responders training center, auxillary police station and other related uses. Take your CCW classes there, train teachers or school Marshalls there, maybe even Air Marshalls.
There is a lot of talk about tearing down a school that is the site of a mass shooting and building a memorial. I understand the sentiment, but I have an alternative idea that might do more good in the long run, and be easier on the taxpayers.....
Rather than razing these buildings, simply put up a plaque as a memorial, maybe a quiet green space.
And then turn the building into a First Responders training center, auxillary police station and other related uses. Take your CCW classes there, train teachers or school Marshalls there, maybe even Air Marshalls.
Surely you are aware that logic of that sort will explode the heads of a certain segment of our society!
AR15/M16 is not awkward at close range. They are a very balanced weapon and the tiny increased time it takes to swing the 20" muzzle around compared to a 1911 is negligible.
In close quarters ill still always prefer a handgun. Try using an AR15 on a guy trying to carjack you. It may be very well balanced for a 2 foot long weapon. Military is probably just great with rifles since most of their shooting is done at least 50-100 yards away. I doubt many officers carrying a side arm have ever used it except for practice. My military stint used 30 and 50 mm caliber cannon/machine guns, or just rockets, missiles and bombs from 1/2 mile away.
Not much about this guy has come out yet, but judging from his facebook page which is still up, there just might be some questions about what he posted:
Other than seeming to be a tad bit "juvenile" for being 53 years old, there isn't really anything on his FB page that is "of interest" other than this picture he posted 10 days before he decided to hold up in his locked, empty classroom and fire off his gun *after* police arrived and tried to enter.
It's glaringly obvious he wasn't unaware of the guns in school issue. He even expressed his own sentiments about it......
He clearly decided to "Do Something".
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-28-2018).]
the Dumbocratic polititians are saying that teachers don't want guns.
