I also have no problem with having to be 21 to get a license. I rode a bicycle all the way thru high school. Worked for me. Everyone over 21 has the same identical rights across the board...thats as consistent as you can get. Why does everything you do have to come under a different age. Make 21 an adult and everything under 21 adolescent. Makes everything real simple. Like tax people, the governments all want to make everything as complicated as they can.
If they win this argument, everything is on the table for the 'need' argument.
Trying to take weapons away is just another step to try and make everyone more dependent, and less independent. Enough of that happens daily without legislation.
I also have no problem with having to be 21 to get a license. I rode a bicycle all the way thru high school. Worked for me. Everyone over 21 has the same identical rights across the board...thats as consistent as you can get. Why does everything you do have to come under a different age. Make 21 an adult and everything under 21 adolescent. Makes everything real simple. Like tax people, the governments all want to make everything as complicated as they can.
I was driving my dads milk truck with him when I was 12. I got my first license when I was 14. I was a pretty aggressive driver in my teens but I wasn't involved in any accidents.
We have been talking, and there is no way in hell she is shooting that 12 gauge.
On a more serious note, she is worthy of armament. She will sit here with me at the table an intently learn. So very proud. Baby steps, but not without reward.
My daughter at @ age 14 shot a 12 gauge, twice. Proper stance and holding it tight to your shoulder helps. I understand it's not for everyone.
A m4 carbine, is a great choice for petite shooters. Relatively inexpensive variants are out there. Ruger makes decent ones. Palmento State Armory has decent rifles, but shipping can take forever.
A .410 shotgun, not judge revolver loaded with 3" 00 buck will still get the job done.
I also have no problem with having to be 21 to get a license. I rode a bicycle all the way thru high school. Worked for me. Everyone over 21 has the same identical rights across the board...thats as consistent as you can get. Why does everything you do have to come under a different age. Make 21 an adult and everything under 21 adolescent. Makes everything real simple. Like tax people, the governments all want to make everything as complicated as they can.
Roger, You're avoiding the points I made. If, age is the discriminating or deciding factor, That's fine but, be consistent. If an 18 year old is to be denied the 2nd Amandment rights, then why shouldn't the privilege of driving for us older drivers also be based on age? Seriously, how many fatalities are the result of us older drivers versus the number of 18 year olds who go "postal"? Think about it.
I'm sure you feel that not all older drivers are dangerous just as I feel not all (or even a small minority) of 18 year olds a danger to society if allowed to own/purchase a weapon.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-03-2018).]
What points did I avoid. I said make the age for everything adult at 21. So everyone is either an adult or their not. What part baffles you ? Any driver from 21 to 101 has the same rights. They just all have to take a driving and laws test when they renew it. Cant pass, you dont get it till you retest and/or not pass. You have to be 21 to get a loan, to own property, join military, vote, drink, go to bars/strip clubs, possess a gun, drive unsupervised and anything else that requires being an 'adult'. Anything under 21 is a juvenile.
What points did I avoid. I said make the age for everything adult at 21. So everyone is either an adult or their not. What part baffles you ? Any driver from 21 to 101 has the same rights. They just all have to take a driving and laws test when they renew it. Cant pass, you dont get it till you retest and/or not pass. You have to be 21 to get a loan, to own property, join military, vote, drink, go to bars/strip clubs, possess a gun, drive unsupervised and anything else that requires being an 'adult'. Anything under 21 is a juvenile.
You are applying a double standard. If you can't see that, take off those blinders. Look at the number of fatalities caused by people like yourself (our age) driving then, look at the number of people killed with weapons by the (under 21) people you are trying to deny a constitutional right. It's not even close! My lord Roger, it's as clear as those speed limit signs you ignore. Based on the actual numbers you should be advocating getting all the old foggies off the road.
Resources for Family & Friends » Conversations About Driving » Facts & Research
Facts and Research Seniors are safe drivers compared to other age groups, since they often reduce risk of injury by wearing safety belts, observing speed limits, and not drinking and driving. However, they are more likely to be injured or killed in traffic crashes due to age-related vulnerabilities, such as more fragile bones. Medical conditions like heart disease, diabetes and other illnesses also make it more difficult for older drivers to recover from any injuries. With the exception of teen drivers, seniors have the highest crash death rate per mile driven, even though they drive fewer miles than younger people.
Although Americans are healthier and living longer than ever before, seniors are outliving their ability to drive safely by an average of 7 to 10 years. Most older drivers recognize and avoid situations where their limitations put them at risk. They drive less after dark, during rush hour or in bad weather, and avoid difficult roads such as highways and intersections.
Here are more key facts about senior drivers:
Fifty percent of the middle-aged population and 80 percent of people in their 70s suffer from arthritis, crippling inflammation of the joints, which makes turning, flexing and twisting painful.1 Weaker muscles, reduced flexibility and limited range of motion restrict senior drivers’ ability to grip and turn the steering wheel, press the accelerator or brake, or reach to open doors and windows.1 More than 75 percent of drivers age 65 or older report using one or more medications, but less than one-third acknowledged awareness of the potential impact of the medications on driving performance.2 Per mile traveled, fatal crash rates increase beginning at age 75 and rise sharply after age 80. This is mainly due to increased risk of injury and medical complications, rather than an increased tendency to get into crashes.3 Since older drivers are more fragile, their fatality rates are 17 times higher than those of 25- to 64-year-olds.1 In 2009, 33 million licensed drivers were over age 65 – a 20 percent increase from 1999. And by the year 2030, 70 million Americans in the U.S. will be over age 65 – and 85 to 90 percent of them will be licensed to drive.4 In 2014, nearly 5,709 senior drivers were killed and 221,000 were injured in traffic crashes.5 In 2009, more than 58 percent of deaths in crashes involving drivers over age 65 were older drivers themselves and 12 percent were their passengers. Twenty-eight percent of these deaths were occupants of other vehicles, bicyclists and pedestrians.3 By comparison, in the same year 40 percent of deaths in crashes involving at least one driver younger than age 21 were attributed to the younger drivers themselves and 23 percent were their passengers. Thirty-six percent were occupants of other vehicles, bicyclists and pedestrians.3
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-05-2018).]
How about a $1,000 per day fine for each violation of a Village ordinance?
Illinois village votes to ban some semi-automatic weapons; Residents who do not turn in guns face $1000/day fine Posted: Apr 05, 2018 5:50 AM PDT Updated: Apr 05, 2018 5:59 AM PDT
DEERFIELD, Ill. -
Members of the village board in the northern Chicago suburb of Deerfield have voted unanimously to ban certain semi-automatic firearms.
WLS-TV in Chicago reports the amendment to the village’s gun ordinance restricts firearms that village leaders define as assault weapons along with high-capacity magazines. That includes the AR-15, which has been used in mass shootings, including the Parkland, Florida school shooting.
The ordinance is based on Highland Park’s high-powered weapons ban, which survived a 2015 legal battle that went to the U.S. Supreme Court.
The ordinance states, "The possession, manufacture and sale of assault weapons in the Village of Deerfield is not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense or the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia."
The list of banned weapons is long and includes all the following models or duplicates thereof: AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle, Dragunov SVU, Fabrique NationalFN/FAL, FN/LAR, FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle, SAR-8, Sturm, Ruger Mini-14, and more.
Antique handguns that have been rendered permanently inoperable and weapons designed for Olympic target shooting events are exempt, as are retired police officers.
"If Highland Park, if Deerfield, if more towns say no to this type of weapon, maybe the state of Illinois says no," said Deerfield Village Manager Kent Street told WLS-TV.. "Maybe the Federal government says no."
Opponents of the ban say it makes Deerfield less safe.
"You are the bureaucrats that Thomas Jefferson warned us about," said Deerfield resident Dan Cox.
The new law goes into effect June 13. Residents who don’t remove banned weapons by then face a fine of $1,000 a day.? Click to show
How about a $1,000 per day fine for each violation of a Village ordinance?
Illinois village votes to ban some semi-automatic weapons; Residents who do not turn in guns face $1000/day fine Posted: Apr 05, 2018 5:50 AM PDT Updated: Apr 05, 2018 5:59 AM PDT
DEERFIELD, Ill. -
Members of the village board in the northern Chicago suburb of Deerfield have voted unanimously to ban certain semi-automatic firearms.
WLS-TV in Chicago reports the amendment to the village’s gun ordinance restricts firearms that village leaders define as assault weapons along with high-capacity magazines. That includes the AR-15, which has been used in mass shootings, including the Parkland, Florida school shooting.
The ordinance is based on Highland Park’s high-powered weapons ban, which survived a 2015 legal battle that went to the U.S. Supreme Court.
The ordinance states, "The possession, manufacture and sale of assault weapons in the Village of Deerfield is not reasonably necessary to protect an individual's right of self-defense or the preservation or efficiency of a well-regulated militia."
The list of banned weapons is long and includes all the following models or duplicates thereof: AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR, AR-10, AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, Olympic Arms PCR, AR70, Calico Liberty, Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle, Dragunov SVU, Fabrique NationalFN/FAL, FN/LAR, FNC, Hi-Point Carbine, HK-91, Kel-Tec Sub Rifle, SAR-8, Sturm, Ruger Mini-14, and more.
Antique handguns that have been rendered permanently inoperable and weapons designed for Olympic target shooting events are exempt, as are retired police officers.
"If Highland Park, if Deerfield, if more towns say no to this type of weapon, maybe the state of Illinois says no," said Deerfield Village Manager Kent Street told WLS-TV.. "Maybe the Federal government says no."
Opponents of the ban say it makes Deerfield less safe.
"You are the bureaucrats that Thomas Jefferson warned us about," said Deerfield resident Dan Cox.
The new law goes into effect June 13. Residents who don’t remove banned weapons by then face a fine of $1,000 a day.? Click to show
They are not coming to take your guns away. They just want common sense gun laws.
She will sit here with me at the table an intently learn. So very proud. Baby steps, but not without reward. 
