Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You can call me a snowflake all you'd like, but I'm not offended by the image. I do think it's in incredibly poor taste as it's literally making fun of the death of some 18+ million people (not counting Catholics, homosexuals, disabled, and minorities) who were killed in WW2 by an evil socialist regime.
Of all the posts I've made on Fiero.NL... literally the entire 20 years the site has been up... (I was 20 years old when I joined), plus every single e-mail I've ever sent on Peter Zurich's "Fiero List," and every other website I've been on, I've not posted anything this bad.
I am neither Jewish, nor offended personally... I just find it pretty sick that you'd post something literally that bad on this message forum. This image is not at all making your point, and I truly believed you were better than this.
This is a perfect example of what invariably happens when someone thinks they have some sort of "moral high ground" and tries to preach to others what is "civil" or not. It is particularly true of liberal / leftists who love to continually change definitions to suit themselves and their present situation. (moral relativism) IF you allow them to do that, what they define as a "personal attack" or "uncivil" will eventually be anything and everything they don't like.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-27-2019).]
Wait, now we're talking about decorum? I never demanded decorum. Decorum describes good taste. I never claimed good taste.
I thought we were talking about civility...
I didn't think I'd have to repeat it so soon.
Just ONE POST later you proceed to prove the point.
"This is a perfect example of what invariably happens when someone thinks they have some sort of "moral high ground" and tries to preach to others what is "civil" or not. It is particularly true of liberal / leftists who love to continually change definitions to suit themselves and their present situation. (moral relativism) IF you allow them to do that, what they define as a "personal attack" or "uncivil" will eventually be anything and everything they don't like."
"Civility", "decorum", "personal attack", "inappropriate", "offensive"....it really doesn't matter to you as long as YOU get to decide for everyone else as you please.
Inside every leftist is a totalitarian screaming to get out.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-27-2019).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You can call me a snowflake all you'd like,...
I was not referring specifically to you, I was referring to those here that refer to anyone that wants something changed solely because it hurt their feelings. I didn't think your feelings were hurt, I just thought you found the comedic image I used as my example to be disgusting. There's a difference.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Of all the posts I've made on Fiero.NL... literally the entire 20 years the site has been up... (I was 20 years old when I joined), plus every single e-mail I've ever sent on Peter Zurich's "Fiero List," and every other website I've been on, I've not posted anything this bad.
That is subjective, and your choice. Just as it was mine.
I'm not trying to make enemies. It is meant as an extreme example of the exploration of what is & isn't acceptable, comedicaly.
Am I then correct in gathering from your objection that you are in favor of censorship based on feelings?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-27-2019).]
I was not referring specifically to you, I was referring to those here that refer to anyone that wants something changed solely because it hurt their feelings. I didn't think your feelings were hurt, I just thought you found the comedic image I used as my example to be disgusting. There's a difference.
That is subjective, and your choice. Just as it was mine.
I'm not trying to make enemies. It is meant as an extreme example of the exploration of what is & isn't acceptable, comedicaly.
Am I then correct in gathering from your objection that you are in favor of censorship based on feelings?
The majority of the people on this forum are conservatives who believe the Government has no business dictating freedom of speech. You have every right to look at such pictures at home. Posting them here is at the mercy of Cliff's discretion. I'd guess he hasn't seen it yet since he lives 20 minutes from Anne Frank's house and would have already deleted it.
The only logical take-away I have from this post is that you must be going through a difficult phase... I don't know. This is genuinely unlike you... or at least what I've come to believe about you over the past 20 years. If there's something else you'd like to or NEED to talk about... I'm happy to discuss in PM. But I'd ask you seriously if this image that you've posted, is something you honestly want associated with you on the internet.
...my last response in this thread, as I don't feel like being a useful idiot in this game / psychosis.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Posting them here is at the mercy of Cliff's discretion. I'd guess he hasn't seen it yet since he lives 20 minutes from Anne Frank's house and would have already deleted it.
I doubt it, but it's his house & his choice. He may not like the picture, but I believe he understands the intent.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: ...my last response in this thread, as I don't feel like being a useful idiot in this game / psychosis.
Ditto.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-27-2019).]
Really? Show everyone here where I said that. I bet you won't, because you can't.
And when you can't, man-up and admit you just lied. No excuses, no word-twisting, show me & everyone else here where I said that. I DARE you.
I already made the definitive statement back on pg. 1
YOUR WORDS:
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
If this thread were to "trashcan" at this very moment, the point I was trying to make......
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: Just to be clear, I never said it wasn't in poor taste. I actually agree.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
I think we can all agree that at the very least, it is in bad taste. And that's where i'll leave it.
YOU presumed the thread may go into the "trashcan" YOU claimed to be "trying to make a point" YOU admitted that the image was "in poor taste" YOU admitted that "in the very least it is in bad taste"
No "lies". No "word twisting". Just straight up OBJECTIVE FACT.
To any rational person YOUR OWN WORDS make it obvious that you were intentionally trying to provoke people.
THAT is an admission, i.e. You admitted to it.
Are drugs or alcohol to blame for you inability to understand that?
You didn't even stop for a moment to think that there might actually be Jews on this forum did you "Mr. Civil"?
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-28-2019).]
Originally posted by Boondawg: In Standup Comedy, Are There Any Limits?/
I will play.
The ?comedian? should not have been fined for hurting the feelings of another.
No, there are no limits unless they are self generated. For instance, are there any limits for playing pop music ? It better sound like pop if you want to be successful. That is for the artist to control, to self determine. One has to know their targeted audience.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: EDITED: To protect the "feelings" of others. I believe the popular term used around here is "Snowflakes". If that is not the case, then what is the difference between the feelings shown here, and those of a supposed "snowflake"?
To protect the feelings of others ? Thanks for the laugh ! You didn't protect the feelings of others. You capitulated to the feelings of your audience. You did not un-offend anyone. Leading by example ? By capitulating to the feelings of others so as they will capitulate to your feelings ?
The feelings expressed here and those of a snowflake are quite startling. I am not surprised you don't understand this. I don't think you know what it means when one uses the phrase "snowflake". Whether they use it correctly or not.
quote
Originally posted by GT-X: ... some things I disagree with, but that is life. Offense and disagreement are not the same thing. When people forget that, they become "snowflakes".
I disagree. The meaning of showflake would make a great topic. I will start one now before I am done 'playing' here.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: <<<<<<<P.S. And thanx for the Green!
I did not give you green as you have had on for many years.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: To everyone that PM'ed me; Thanx for your supportive words!
I wish you could feel comfortable enough to express your opinions here, but I understand your hesitance to do so.
Snowflakes.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: The difference this time is it's their feelings they want to be the catalyst for getting rid of something they don't like.
That is your opinion. I don't agree.
You clearly had a motive when creating this thread. You want to get rid of behavior you don't like, limiting a person's right to free speech, and equating that to an offensive (to some) image.
I say put the image back up. If someone offends you, do what was done here. Let your displeasure be known and ask that they remove the offensive [/]feelings[/i] of theirs. Just how are you ging to change someone else's opinion.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: For years Iv'e been sick and tired of people whoes feelings are hurt at any little thing. Everyone grow a pair.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: It not a "given" that "God" "gave" us anything. That's a personal belief.
Believe what ye may. Who gave us the right to be wrong ?
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg: Just to be clear, so you do agree with me NOW, that we have a responsibility to be civil & considerate in our interactions with each other?
I do not. Neither does a very large portion of the world. A 'for instance' : Are big business, big oil, etc. responsible to be considerate in my desires on how they should act ? I decide my responsibilities as I see fit. Or I accept them from employment/wife/etc as I choose to take on.
In my opinion (and we should not have to preface everything we say with that phrase), the image was obscene and to post it was inconsiderate at best. To disregard the feelings of others simply for some sort of personal gratification is antisocial.
There are some who have a very personal connection to the atrocity that was the subject of that image.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-28-2019).]
Boondawg I have not read every response to this post and when I clicked to show your imagine I clicked the imagine again because it was that easy to remove the imagine from sight.
I hope everyone has a great day and to not let things bother you that you have control to change in your lives.
[This message has been edited by Shonyman32 (edited 01-28-2019).]
Boondawg I have not read every response to this post and when I clicked to show your imagine I clicked the imagine again because it was that easy to remove the imagine from sight.
I hope everyone has a great day and to not let things bother you that you have control to change in your lives.
Of course we can close the image. We may also express our opinion of the image. If I understand correctly, the image was posted in order to elicit opinions.
Hmm, so what if the pile of cigarette ash and hair conditioner drizzled over the top had a caption of "Making love to an ashtray"?
If it had that caption, would we still be arguing over the vulgarity of the image, laughing, or simply continue trashing the hell out of Donnie just because some people have personal issues with him? Just wondering.
[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 01-28-2019).]
Boonie trolled us. Not you, but he put in a bobber and line to upset the aquarium purposely. **** him. Tell me to be quiet.
Again, for all to see and read... Post away Don. Just don't expect folks to be silent when you are the one making threats and accusations to many here.
Folks should read into Donnie boyz life, just like he asked of mine. ****ing pinsetter.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-29-2019).]
Hmm, so what if the pile of cigarette ash and hair conditioner drizzled over the top had a caption of "Making love to an ashtray"?
If it had that caption, would we still be arguing over the vulgarity of the image, laughing, or simply continue trashing the hell out of Donnie just because some people have personal issues with him? Just wondering.
In that case, it would just be an absurd image. It is the idea behind the image that makes it obscene. Kind of like the image of the female comedian holding a severed head, that was the subject of some discussion last year.
I could post two different images of a nude female form and one would be accepted as art while the other would get me removed from the forum, though the images would be nearly identical.
I could post a picture of the KKK. If it were for historical context, it would be acceptable; but if it bore an inappropriate punch line, it would be unacceptable.
Boondawg asked for opinions and he got opinions. I can not think of a topic that is less funny than the one that he chose.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-28-2019).]
Comedy / "free speech" there should be no limits. We will embrace or ostracize based of how feel about the words and actions. If a club or website, the host has the option or having a limited free expression zone. A nation does not have the option or having a limited free expression unless it has become a repressive totalitarian government and at that point, overthrow of the government starts with a Preamble of a Constitution. We have done it before, it sucks but, it can be done again. I like voting when it works!
Boondawg asked for opinions and he got opinions. I can not think of a topic that is less funny than the one that he chose.
While very true, I have never quite understood why one particular group in a myriad of 20th century genocides should be held as "untouchable" subject material while the rest aren't held to that standard.
While very true, I have never quite understood why one particular group in a myriad of 20th century genocides should be held as "untouchable" subject material while the rest aren't held to that standard.
Just an opinion on something that doesnt make sense to me.
How would you (or someone else) like to have the Holocaust "touched"..?
I can't remember the last time I saw a standup comedian or an artiste provocateur try to get some laughs or create some dark comedy about what happened to the Armenians in Turkey, way back towards the start of the 1900s. Or about what happened in Cambodia, under Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Or what's still happening now with the Rohingya minority in Myanmar (Burma). Any kind of "art" or image that would be alike to the Holocaust-related image that Boondawg posted, which I have not actually seen, but have been able to imagine from the comments about it in this discussion.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-30-2019).]
I would assume that if you research, take time off, pay for and travel to see a Comedian you will know what to expect. That said if the comedian then states something you don't like or are not able to stomach then nothing is keeping you in the chair.
Case in point. We purchased tickets to go see "Fluffy" made sure we were off and drove over. The venue put us in horrible seats, they didn't use the stadium sound system and it was not only hard to hear but also hard to see the comedian on stage. While this did not offend me it did piss me off, we left after 20 minutes and I voiced my opinion and reached out to the venue management and the comedian "Fluffy" No one responded, I do not want the government or the state of California to fine him or the venue. But I will not be giving any of my money to them in the future
See how that works, no fit, no rage and no tasking the government to chastise them.
Now if you are a POS and are looking for drama then you will probably look for someone that is going to offend you, put your self in a position to be offended and then jump on the chance to be offended.
WARNING: Comedic Image May Be Offensive To Those That Choose To Be Offended:
EDIT: I have been asked to remove the image. I have done so.
EDITED: To protect the "feelings" of others. I believe the popular term used around here is "Snowflakes". If that is not the case, then what is the difference between the feelings shown here, and those of a supposed "snowflake"?
"Offensive to those that choose to be offended..."
That's not such a good thought.
Do black Americans or other people--even people of white or Caucasian and perhaps even literally Anglo-Saxon lineage and Protestant Christian beliefs--"chose" to be offended when (hypothetical, but rooted in reality and not so distant history) their city or neighborhood becomes the venue for a KKK rally or other white nationalist-themed gathering?
I think that deployment of the verb "to chose", as in "to select" or "to opt for" is an oxymoron.
However, I do not think that Anti-Semitism was a motive for the image that was originally presented and then removed.
In particular, I remember when the Original Poster or "OP" once remarked here on a Holocaust documentary that he was about to set aside some of his time for, to watch the TV presentation. It came across as a sincere and respectful interest on his part. It's just something that came up here that kind of "stuck" in my memory.
So, a very late comment here, on my part. It may be that the OP gets an email notice whenever there is a Reply added to this thread. That would be a "real world" consequence of my opting to come in here, so long after the last Reply before this one.
------------------ Keeping It Civilized, One Message At A Time
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-04-2019).]
"Offensive to those that choose to be offended..."
That's not such a good thought.
Do black Americans or other people--even people of white or Caucasian and perhaps even literally Anglo-Saxon lineage and Protestant Christian beliefs--"chose" to be offended when (hypothetical, but rooted in reality and not so distant history) their city or neighborhood becomes the venue for a KKK rally or other white nationalist-themed gathering?
I think that deployment of the verb "to chose", as in "to select" or "to opt for" is an oxymoron.
One may certainly choose not to be offended. That skill should be in the "tool kit" of every successful adult.
quote
However, I do not think that Anti-Semitism was a motive for the image that was originally presented and then removed.
In my opinion, the motive was to offend, without regard for race, creed, color, etc.
quote
In particular, I remember when the Original Poster or "OP" once remarked here on a Holocaust documentary that he was about to set aside some of his time for, to watch the TV presentation. It came across as a sincere and respectful interest on his part. It's just something that came up here that kind of "stuck" in my memory.
I have watched documentaries and read articles and books on may subjects, because I had a sincere interest in the subjects. That does not mean that I support any particular position regarding the subject. I have read about Ronald Reagan and Lyndon Johnson. I have a great deal of respect for one and hate the other.
quote
So, a very late comment here, on my part. It may be that the OP gets an email notice whenever there is a Reply added to this thread. That would be a "real world" consequence of my opting to come in here, so long after the last Reply before this one.
This is me butting in so I will apologize in advance . I really appreciate this little Fiero community, more than I can say, and sometimes wish that Cliff would nuke the O/T category and we could focus on the cars. Yet I acknowledge that some of the threads in here have made me really Think and others have made me really Laugh. Ugh, what's a body to do?? How about burying the hatchet and lets get back to talking those awesome cars that bind us together.
I really appreciate this little Fiero community, more than I can say, and sometimes wish that Cliff would nuke the O/T category and we could focus on the cars.
Should that ever happen, THIS would be Ronald:
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 03-04-2019).]
How about burying the hatchet and lets get back to talking those awesome cars that bind us together.
Pollyanna
OK, now you've gone and done it! You've manages to offend both Elizabeth Warren and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez with just a single sentence. (oops, the word "sentence" probably scares Hillary Clinton)
This is me butting in so I will apologize in advance . I really appreciate this little Fiero community, more than I can say, and sometimes wish that Cliff would nuke the O/T category and we could focus on the cars. Yet I acknowledge that some of the threads in here have made me really Think and others have made me really Laugh. Ugh, what's a body to do?? How about burying the hatchet and lets get back to talking those awesome cars that bind us together.
Pollyanna
Haha, ok, ok, ok. So, are you one of those people that want drugs made illegal because otherwise you would surely be a drug addict? I believe in you man, you can stop O/T anytime you are ready. Do not wait to hit bottom.
This is me butting in so I will apologize in advance . I really appreciate this little Fiero community, more than I can say, and sometimes wish that Cliff would nuke the O/T category and we could focus on the cars. Yet I acknowledge that some of the threads in here have made me really Think and others have made me really Laugh. Ugh, what's a body to do?? How about burying the hatchet and lets get back to talking those awesome cars that bind us together. Click to show
Pollyanna
I have rarely seen this put into such a polite form.
This is me butting in so I will apologize in advance . I really appreciate this little Fiero community, more than I can say, and sometimes wish that Cliff would nuke the O/T category and we could focus on the cars. Yet I acknowledge that some of the threads in here have made me really Think and others have made me really Laugh. Ugh, what's a body to do?? How about burying the hatchet and lets get back to talking those awesome cars that bind us together.
Pollyanna
There wasn't an OT section at first, from what I have heard it caused the other sections to be polluted with OT threads that didn't belong. While sometimes the OT section goes into the dark nether regions of our social experience for the most part I enjoy the conversation. The sharing. The cars
[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 03-08-2019).]
OK, now you've gone and done it! You've manages to offend both Elizabeth Warren and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez with just a single sentence. (oops, the word "sentence" probably scares Hillary Clinton)
Welllllll....he didnt say WHERE to bury the hatchet. Billary might be a good choice, but I think Justine would be a better one !
territory.
****ing pinsetter.
