MONTREAL — Comedians in Quebec will be afraid to make controversial jokes if a 2016 ruling against Mike Ward by the province’s Human Rights Tribunal is upheld, lawyer Julius Grey said Wednesday.
Grey sought to convince a panel of three judges on Quebec’s Appeal Court that a joke about drowning an “ugly” disabled boy might have been distasteful — but it must remain legal in a free and democratic society.
Ward, a popular Quebec comedian, is appealing a Quebec Human Rights Tribunal ruling that his performances included discriminatory comments about a young disabled singer, Jeremy Gabriel. The tribunal ordered Ward to pay $35,000 in moral and punitive damages to Gabriel and $7,000 to his mother.
“In this particular case, if the judgement is maintained, no one will be able to dare to be a stand-up comic, because normally you make fun of things that are controversial — otherwise it’s not funny,” Grey told reporters at the courthouse. “If anything that is controversial can authorize someone to say, ‘I was hurt, I’m going to court,’ then we’re finished.”
Gabriel was born prematurely in 1996 and has Treacher Collins syndrome, a congenital disorder characterized by skull and facial deformities. Known in Quebec as “Little Jeremy,” he became a minor celebrity in the province after he sang with Celine Dion and for the Pope.
In the joke Ward told at shows between 2010 and 2013, the comedian said he initially thought Gabriel’s illness was terminal. He said he assumed people were only nice to him and letting him sing with celebrities because he would soon be dead. After realizing the child was living a lot longer than anticipated, he concluded Gabriel was invincible. He joked that he had even tried to drown him at a water park, but he wouldn’t die.
Gabriel, now 22, has said kids at his school made fun of him by repeating Ward’s jokes. He said the stand-up routine made him question his value as a human being and gave him suicidal thoughts. A Quebec court judge, on behalf of the rights tribunal, ruled that Ward’s joke violated Gabriel’s right to dignity, honour and reputation, as well as his right to equality and to be safe from discrimination.
Grey argued Ward’s joke was not discriminatory. “Discrimination would have been if he wasn’t admitted somewhere, or if he was evaluated in a different way,” Grey told the judges. “It’s not enough to make fun of him to create a discrimination.”
Stephanie Fournier, a lawyer defending the rights tribunal, said the lower court judge was correct in his application of the law. She said the decision doesn’t prevent comics from talking about Gabriel or other people from groups protected under the charter.
“The nuance is that you can’t humiliate a person or violate their dignity … because they are disabled,” she told the judges. “Gabriel was targeted because he had a disability.”
It is not a matter of freedom of expression being less important than other rights, Fournier added. “The nuance, is that the exercise of freedom of expression should not violate the fundamental rights of another person,” she said.
WARNING: Comedic Image May Be Offensive To Those That Chose To Be Offended:
EDIT: I have been asked to remove the image. I have done so.
EDITED: To protect the "feelings" of others. I believe the popular term used around here is "Snowflakes". If that is not the case, then what is the difference between the feelings shown here, and those of a supposed "snowflake"?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-27-2019).]
I will remove my "click to show" after Don removes his image posted.
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
Obscene image.
Image link removed. I want no part of this. Disgusting.
I would never post such a thing, and you want to silence folks?
If I recall, most that have lost their mind here begin to post things of this nature to test the limits, point fingers, and just to be a dick to fellow members. Here we go again...
Edit: I gave you a negative here Don. Not for you being an azz to me, but for your lack of decorum on this forum.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-27-2019).]
Each of us has his limits, individually; and social groups have their collectively established limits. I can only infer from what was eluded in the article that the comedian overstepped the bounds of propriety, but I wasn’t there.
This situation took place in Canada so I cannot address it directly, but in my country, the government has no business establishing or enforcing limits in such matters.
Your image is far outside my bounds of comfort and I dare say that is likely true for most adults.
I respect everyone's freedom to say what they want, but I kindly and respectfully ask that you remove that picture. I won't do anything if you choose not to, but I will forever hold an opinion.
Our "human rights codes" up here are basically enforced political-correctness and universal acceptance (OR ELSE) of every-single-fracking-thing imaginable.
You are either a P-C-embracing, proper-pronoun-using liberal-leftist, or you are fined into submission. Truth is no defense against them https://www.cjfe.org/truth_is_not_a_defence and all they need to be is "offended" and have their feeewwwwiiinnnggggsssss hurt.
Quebec is a little different than the rest of the country, since they run on Napoleanic law (guilty until you prove yourself innocent) and have never signed the constitution, so lack constitutional rights or protections.
Here in Ontario, the key is "public" speech....I can say what the frack I want in private conversation, but cant publish it in a newspaper or something....the REAL grey area they like to play around with is the definition of "private" and "public" and its never been (legally) resolved....IE: If me and Jow Blow are talking on a street-corner and somebody 50 feet away overhears something they dont llliiikkkkeeee was it a private conversation and they should of minded their own fracking business, or was it deliberately said to be mean and provoke them in such a way that it was meant to be overheard.
Lawyers make entire careers out of this type of shat up here !! There IS one hell of big "underground" movement to scrap the entire concept, but it is a hell of a fight since Human Rigts Codes are the lefts golden goose. They provide the offended snowflakes with a virtually unlimited supply of free money simply because of their feeeeewwwiiinnngggsssss.
Now remember, use your pronouns or ELSE !! (Yes, more of Trudeau's leftist "peoplehood" stupidity.)
Is it a violation of the Code to not address people by their choice of pronoun? The law recognizes that everyone has the right to self-identify their gender and that “misgendering” is a form of discrimination.
As one human rights tribunal said: “Gender …may be the most significant factor in a person’s identity. It is intensely personal. In many respects how we look at ourselves and define who we are starts with our gender.”[1] The Tribunal found misgendering to be discriminatory in a case involving police, in part because the police used male pronouns despite the complainant’s self-identification as a trans woman.
Refusing to refer to a trans person by their chosen name and a personal pronoun that matches their gender identity, or purposely misgendering, will likely be discrimination when it takes place in a social area covered by the Code, including employment, housing and services like education. The law is otherwise unsettled as to whether someone can insist on any one gender-neutral pronoun in particular.
Gender-neutral pronouns may not be well known. Some people may not know how to determine what pronoun to use. Others may feel uncomfortable using gender-neutral pronouns. Generally, when in doubt, ask a person how they wish to be addressed. Use “they” if you don’t know which pronoun is preferred.[2] Simply referring to the person by their chosen name is always a respectful approach.
Yup, thats how bad its gotten here.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-27-2019).]
In practical terms, lets say you are running a small business and need to hire somebody for customer service or delivery driver or whatever and THIS shows up to apply for the job..
You gonna hire he/she/it/zi/zer/whatever-the-****-the-term-is ?
NOPE, I wouldn't either.....BUT the 1st thing it is going to do is go running and screaming discrimination and as a business owner you are now getting hauled in front of a leftist kangaroo-court tribunal not only for failing to speak correctly, but for discrimination in not hiring IT...and its going to cost you 50-grand plus...Basically they are getting a years pay for nothing, and in 6 months will go out and do it to another company.
As a result of this stupidity, an INSANE number of companies/jobs are done via temp agencies here. It puts the onus on the agency and not the employer to comply with the code, and the employer simply gives a list of requirements (including "professional appearance") to the agency to fill...Its now the agencies problem to deal with IT and pay the fines when IT goes crying.
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-27-2019).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I respect everyone's freedom to say what they want, but I kindly and respectfully ask that you remove that picture. I won't do anything if you choose not to, but I will forever hold an opinion.
The question is, can comedy go to far? The picture is an example.
But out of respect for the feelings of grown adult men who claim utter distaste for changing stuff to protect "snowflake " feelings, I will make it a click-to-show.
In practical terms, lets say you are running a small business and need to hire somebody for customer service or delivery driver or whatever and THIS shows up to apply for the job..
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
You gonna hire he/she/it/zi/zer/whatever-the-****-the-term-is ?
Sure, if my small business were a circus or an alligator farm.
WARNING: Comedic Image May Be Offensive To Those That Chose To Be Offended: Click to show
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
Fair enough. Out of respect for others, I have altered my action to better suit the feelings of others. It is now a "choice".
EDITED: To protect the "feelings" of others. I believe the popular term used around here is "Snowflakes". If that is not the case, then what is the difference between the feelings shown here, and those of a supposed "snowflake"?
Still not getting it? You have shown zero respect.
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-27-2019).]
Each of us has his limits, individually; and social groups have their collectively established limits. I can only infer from what was eluded in the article that the comedian overstepped the bounds of propriety, but I wasn’t there.
This situation took place in Canada so I cannot address it directly, but in my country, the government has no business establishing or enforcing limits in such matters.
Willie, that kid basically saw the chance for "free money" and ran with it...We have ALL been the brunt of jokes or been offended at one time or another, but Canada has managed to turn that into an industry. Its a JOB for them to go around looking for things to get their panties wadded about, file complaints and collect the penalties.
Willie, that kid basically saw the chance for "free money" and ran with it...We have ALL been the brunt of jokes or been offended at one time or another, but Canada has managed to turn that into an industry.
To everyone that PM'ed me; Thanx for your supportive words!
I wish you could feel comfortable enough to express your opinions here, but I understand your hesitance to do so.
<<<<<<<P.S. And thanx for the Green!
I can't think of a single thing you have ever posted that has offended me. Maybe some things I disagree with, but that is life. Offence and disagreement are not the same thing. When people forget that, they become "snowflakes".
Originally posted by GT-X: Offence and disagreement are not the same thing. When people forget that, they become "snowflakes".
Back to lurking, Tyler
If this thread were to "trashcan" at this very moment, the point I was trying to make (to those here who in the past have viciously expressed the very concept you posted above) will have been made by your simple but accurate opinion above.
That being said, don't expect a whole lot of agreement with that concept in this particular incident. The difference this time is it's their feelings they want to be the catalyst for getting rid of something they don't like.
P.S. To The Reader: If you don't see yourself in the above, then I'm not talking about you.
For years ive been sick and tired of people whos feelings are hurt at any little thing. Everyone grow a pair. No one has to listen to anything anyone else says. Just change channel or walk away. The PC BS has gone way over the edge ages ago. This is like Tim Allens show Last Man Standing (comedy), getting cancelled by the ABC network because he always spoke negative about Obuma. It was a top rated show. Its now on Fox, and he makes perfectly clear every episode he loves Trump and hates democrats. Its still a high rated show and I watch it every week. I even watch reruns on other networks when nothing else is on. The show also has every stereotype there is.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-27-2019).]
If this thread were to "trashcan" at this very moment, the point I was trying to make (to those here who in the past have viciously expressed the very concept you posted above) will have been made by your simple but accurate opinion above.
That being said, don't expect a whole lot of agreement with that concept in this particular incident. The difference this time is it's their feelings they want to be the catalyst for getting rid of something they don't like.
P.S. To The Reader: If you don't see yourself in the above, then I'm not talking about you.
Clear as a bell.
Again, and for like literally the 8th time this week, I do not want you to stop posting. I am sickened by your pictorial attachment, but there is nothing that I can do about that other than express MY opinion. You are hurt, I am not. Or, perhaps I have you wrong and you are not hurt?
quote
Originally posted by Boondawg:
To everyone that PM'ed me; Thanx for your supportive words!
I wish you could feel comfortable enough to express your opinions here, but I understand your hesitance to do so.
<<<<<<<P.S. And thanx for the Green!
Truer words Don. I could not have said it any better myself. I too thank those that have PMed me in recent weeks regarding forum members. I WILL NOT make public those conversations. Thanks all!
[This message has been edited by Tony Kania (edited 01-27-2019).]
"Funny" also has another meaning; difficult to explain or understand; strange or odd.
The Most Controversial Comedians of All Time:
25. Chelsea Handler 24. Dick Gregory 23. Louis C.K. 22. Lewis Black 21. Andrew Dice Clay 20. Andy Kaufman 19. Lisa Lampanelli 18. Ari Shaffir 17. David Cross 16. Chris Morris 15. Tracy Morgan 14. Daniel Tosh 13. Denis Leary 12. Michael Richards 11. Sarah Silverman 10. Jon Stewart 9. Roseanne Barr 8. Frankie Boyle 7. Doug Stanhope 6. Paul Mooney 5. Bill Maher 4. Richard Pryor 3. Bill Hicks 2. George Carlin 1. Lenny Bruce
If this thread were to "trashcan" at this very moment............
Very interesting day you picked for your "joke".
International Holocaust Remembrance Day
January 27 is designated by the United Nations General Assembly as International Holocaust Remembrance Day. Since 2005, the UN and its member states have held commemoration ceremonies to mark the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau and to honor the six million Jewish victims of the Holocaust and millions of other victims of Nazism.
I choose what is right or wrong for me. You can decide on your own. Dawg the picture crossed the line with me, feel free to keep using it and other examples and I will soon be skipping all of your posts as I do with others that use the same tactics. I am not getting on you for what you post that is your decision but for me the picture is in poor taste.
I have also been told that this one is just as bad I will just leave this here
I choose what is right or wrong for me. You can decide on your own. Dawg the picture crossed the line with me, feel free to keep using it and other examples and I will soon be skipping all of your posts as I do with others that use the same tactics. I am not getting on you for what you post that is your decision but for me the picture is in poor taste.
Well said.
quote
I have also been told that this one is just as bad I will just leave this here
Perhaps it will balance the Karma
You know what I don't like about that picture, Jake? It's too small!Click to show
Whether intentionally or because of a lack of understanding, some people confuse the distinction between our God given rights, governmental rolls and responsibilities, and personal responsibility.
God gives us the right to be wrong. Government may not take away what God has given us.
In order for civilization to exist, each of us has a responsibility to the other. If we are not considerate of others, society crumbles. Whether or not we care to admit it, each of us has a threshold of offense. That does not make us week, that makes us human.
With all the discussion here regarding civil behavior as of late, these things should be understood.
As regards comedy, if a young man slips on a banana peel, that may be regarded as comedy. But what if a frail, 90 year old woman slips on a banana peel on the way to her husband’s funeral. Is it still funny?
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I choose what is right or wrong for me. You can decide on your own.
Just as it's always been. For everyone. Which was my point.
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Dawg the picture crossed the line with me, feel free to keep using it and other examples and I will soon be skipping all of your posts as I do with others that use the same tactics.
Which has always been your right to do. I wish more people would follow your simple solution to things the don't want to subject themselves to.
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I am not getting on you for what you post that is your decision but for me the picture is in poor taste.
Just to be clear, I never said it wasn't in poor taste. I actually agree. But "poor taste" (which is subjective) wasn't my point.
That being said, I would like to thank you and others here for the civil responses. No name calling, no insults, no mud-slinging. Nothing personal, just the expression of one's opinion about the subject at hand, and my right/choice to post it. Thank you.
Whether intentionally or because of a lack of understanding, some people confuse the distinction between our God given rights, governmental rolls and responsibilities, and personal responsibility.
God gives us the right to be wrong. Government may not take away what God has given us.
It not a "given" that "God" "gave" us anything. That's a personal belief.
quote
Originally posted by williegoat: In order for civilization to exist, each of us has a responsibility to the other. If we are not considerate of others, society crumbles.
Where were you with this highly evolved idea when I was continually being drug through the mud by some here? I may have missed it, but I did not see you remind them of that principle, then.
quote
Originally posted by williegoat: With all the discussion here regarding civil behavior as of late, these things should be understood.
See above.
quote
Originally posted by williegoat: As regards comedy, if a young man slips on a banana peel, that may be regarded as comedy. But what if a frail, 90 year old woman slips on a banana peel on the way to her husband’s funeral. Is it still funny?
Well, it definitely sounds funny! I guess it could be visually funny if you didn't know the person, or she wasn't hurt, or she just got through yelling at an interracial couple, or she laughed about the fall, too. So many variables.
Let me ask you; Would it be funny as a comedy skit?
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-27-2019).]
It not a "given" that "God" "gave" us anything. That's a personal belief.
That is a founding principle of this great nation. As an American, I accept it as fact.
quote
Where were you with this highly evolved idea when I was continually being drug through the mud by some here? I may have missed it, but I did not see you remind them of that principle, then.
As I have told you before, you are an adult and can fight your own battles.
As I have told you before, you are an adult and can fight your own battles.
I guess the question should be, why did you choose to inform me & choose now to make this opinion known, when I have been suggesting this very thing for quite some time now. I very well may have missed it, but I believe not once did you mention you agreed with that concept when I spoke of it. You did have other things to say, but that wasn't one of them.
Just to be clear, so you do agree with me NOW, that we have a responsibility to be civil & considerate in our interactions with each other?
quote
Originally posted by williegoat:In order for civilization to exist, each of us has a responsibility to the other. If we are not considerate of others, society crumbles.
The question is, can comedy go to far? The picture is an example.
But out of respect for the feelings of grown adult men who claim utter distaste for changing stuff to protect "snowflake " feelings, I will make it a click-to-show.
You can call me a snowflake all you'd like, but I'm not offended by the image. I do think it's in incredibly poor taste as it's literally making fun of the death of some 18+ million people (not counting Catholics, homosexuals, disabled, and minorities) who were killed in WW2 by an evil socialist regime.
Of all the posts I've made on Fiero.NL... literally the entire 20 years the site has been up... (I was 20 years old when I joined), plus every single e-mail I've ever sent on Peter Zurich's "Fiero List," and every other website I've been on, I've not posted anything this bad.
I am neither Jewish, nor offended personally... I just find it pretty sick that you'd post something literally that bad on this message forum. This image is not at all making your point, and I truly believed you were better than this.
was it a private conversation and they should of minded their own fracking business, or was it deliberately said to be mean and provoke them in such a way that it was meant to be overheard.
....(Notice he goes after the easy-target comedian and wont "complain" about the media)
