It's Congressman or Representative "Shifty." He's not a Senator. And this is from the same report in Politico that "cliffw" referenced:
quote
The apparent mischaracterization, however, does not undercut Democrats' argument that Trump withheld critical military aid to Ukraine as a way to pressure Zelenksy into opening up investigations into the Bidens, including Joe Biden’s son Hunter, who was once a board member on Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-23-2020).]
First, Trump was allowed and invited and allowed to call witnesses. He opted not to. (Page 2)
quote
Consistent with House precedent, after the evidence arrived at the Judiciary Committee, the Committee invited President Trump and his counsel to participate in the process. Notably, and unlike past Presidents, President Trump declined to attend any hearings, question any witnesses, or recommend that the Committee call additional witnesses in his defense.
But per usual, Trump lied about it, and you're running with that.
I listened to the proceedings as I'm certain you will claim to have done as well. The Republicans would ask simple questions and then Schiff would tell the witness not to answer, or tell them they didn't have to answer time after time. The only questions allowed were the ones the Democrats allowed.
I have a friend that I discuss politics with from time to time, he is an ardent Bernie Sanders supporter, and truthfully believes Trump is the worst thing to have ever happened to this country... though he has tamed his responses quite a bit. We were discussing the impeachment proceedings, and I could tell he was really frustrated that none of us had really bothered to watch any of it. I was honestly trying not to get him upset, and he didn't get upset, but he seemed at least frustrated that I was both unconcerned and uninterested. He couldn't understand, saying that this affects us all, and it's part of history now that will be studied, etc...
I told him, here's the reality of the situation:
1 - Trump didn't break anyone's trust. There was no scandal, he came right out and forward on what he was being accused of. 2 - Trump did essentially what President Obama had done nearly 6 times during his administration, and President Bush several times as well (withhold aide money allocated by Congress to another Government). At that time, no one batted an eye or said anything. 3 - Trump ended up giving the money to Ukraine anyway, before any of this became an issue... so he didn't actually end up withholding anything. 4 - He's not being accused of any kind of crime for investigating Joe Biden, they are trying to attack him on a technicality for which they see he supposedly violated the act that was passed to prevent presidents from misappropriating money allocated by Congress. And I point you back to point #3, they got their money. 5 - Joe Biden actually committed significant crimes, for which President Trump still has every right to encourage Ukraine to support the investigation into. 6 - Finally, because of everything else that's led up to this... literally everyone recognizes this impeachment trial as an attempt to undo the 2016 election... and at best, it's merely a means for the radical left to "get back" at Trump because they're so angry with all of the policies he's implemented, and the undoing of all of Obama's policies.
With all of these 6 points I mentioned, literally everyone realizes, even Rinse (whether he wants to admit it or not), that this is a sham impeachment, so no one takes it seriously.
My friend then sent me an article talking about how 11 million people watched the opening day of the Senate Impeachment trial. He was so concerned about the fact that I was unconcerned, that he wanted to show me that people were taking it seriously. I read the article... it showed a nearly 3 million decline in viewership from the House impeachment to the Senate impeachment, and those numbers (11 million) were for only the first day. The subsequent day dropped by more than 60%. So you put this into context, with the total US population, less than 3% of the population bothered to watch the first day of the Senate impeachment, and barely 1% is watching currently.
As far as I'm concerned, with 1% viewership, it's obvious that no one cares, and everyone recognizes this for what it's worth... a complete and total joke.
If the U.S Department of Justice has received tangible enough evidence to justify the launching of a criminal or corruption investigation into either of the Bidens (Joe, and son Hunter) the investigation should be going forwards at the DOJ--quietly and under wraps, not with public announcements.
The DOJ could discretely, and without publicity, request assistance with such an investigation from their counterparts in the Ukraine. That's the way these things are supposed to proceed.
For all I know, one or both of the Bidens is already under investigation by the DOJ. An investigation that is being kept under wraps, as it should be.
Trump angling for a public announcement from the government of Ukraine, about their launching (or pretending to launch) a new investigation into Burisma--an announcement that would have singled out Hunter Biden by name? That's BULL **** .
He made it impossible for the Democratic-majority in the House of Representatives NOT to impeach him.
He could have been working on the positive messages of his reelection campaign. The economy--as he can frame it. The Southern border wall. Deregulation. Whatever he would want to brag about. But NOOOO... he just had to involve a foreign government, ignoring the obvious risks, leaving his very own fingerprints all over a "smoking" White House telephone, just to angle for some kind of dirt to use against Joe Biden. Angling for some on-air footage that would have been created on CNN, to use against Joe Biden in the Trump reelection campaign. Joe Biden, who is not yet even the Democratic candidate.
The House impeachment managers and everyone that's supporting them have crafted their presentation of the case against the President to near perfection, as a "Show and Tell" kind of exercise.
I can't see him being convicted and removed from office.
So it goes forwards, to the completion of the 2020 national elections in November.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-24-2020).]
Rinse... you might very well be the only person who's actually watching this... I'm pretty hard-core with politics, and I haven't even caught a minute of it. Not because of any frustration, but it's just been so silly and ridiculous.
I did try to watch the first day, tried again on day two. I actually put off a couple important projects because I see this as an historical event even though, I don't believe any impeachable actions have been shown. I eventually realized I had better things to do. I wondered how many citizens are actually watching this tribunal. As it turns out, the Dems apparently shot their wad early on and the networks carrying the live drama have the lowest viewership of the month.
This tells me, the vast majority of Americans either don't care about what DJT is accused of or, have already made up their minds and have grown tired of the drama.
If I thought there was the slightest chance of learning something new, I would watch. How many times can you listen to adults recite "I know you are, but what am I?", before you are forced to slam a shot of ipecac?
No one has deviated from the prepared script, on either side.
And this comes from a self confessed "political junkie". A man who watched all of the 2016 debates from both parties and every single minute of the Kavanaugh hearings.
Fox News host Laura Ingraham reported Wednesday evening that she obtained a chain of State Department emails stemming from a standard request for comment from New York Times journalist Ken Vogel, whose reporting helped generate scrutiny of Hunter Biden's ties to Ukrainian gas company Burisma. Hunter Biden, 49, is the son of Democratic presidential front-runner Joe Biden, and Republicans have called for him to testify during the Ukraine-related Senate impeachment trial against President Trump.
I don't generally like to post single source, unverified claims; but this looks pretty solid. We will see.
“Everything I tried to tell the press last March is now coming out, and more. I will now start to reveal the evidence directly to you, the People,” the former New York mayor tweeted. “The Biden Family Enterprise made millions by selling public office. Then when Joe was Obama’s Point Man, they ALL made millions.”
This story is being reported by multiple outlets and the source is Giuliani. Show us what you got, Rudy. Put up, or shut up.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-24-2020).]
The DOJ could discretely, and without publicity, request assistance with such an investigation from their counterparts in the Ukraine. That's the way these things are supposed to proceed.
As I had said before, I haven't really been paying attention. But if I'm not mistaken, that's exactly what was happening. It only came to light because they forced all this information into house impeachment...
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:
As it turns out, the Dems apparently shot their wad early on and the networks carrying the live drama have the lowest viewership of the month.
If I sit here and think for a minute, I have to assume the feeling that's going through the employees of these news stations, must be the same feeling that my friend is having... and that is, he cannot understand why no one cares, when in fact this is something he so deeply cares about.
As Randye said... these people aren't living in reality. So their confusion and frustration is built upon their own fallacy that others are not embracing.
But if I'm not mistaken, that's exactly what was happening. It only came to light because they forced all this information into house impeachment...
Exactly.
It's the same as the FBI "leaking" things to various newspapers around DC, and then using those articles as evidence in the proceedings.. From "unnamed sources" at that.
The DOJ could discretely, and without publicity, request assistance with such an investigation from their counterparts in the Ukraine. That's the way these things are supposed to proceed.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
If I sit here and think for a minute, I have to assume the feeling that's going through the employees of these news stations, must be the same feeling that my friend is having... and that is, he cannot understand why no one cares, when in fact this is something he so deeply cares about.
If you'll recall, Ronald expressed ZERO similar concerns with the DoJ maintaining discretion and secrecy during the Mueller investigation.
It's a classic case of Leftists having "Shoe on the other foot disease".........and of course there is Ronald's raging, untreated, mental illness.
.................................................
Just try to imagine what it is like to be an unhinged Leftist right now.
For three long years, starting just 19 minutes after President Trump's election victory, Leftists have gone through an endless string of "WE FINALLY GOT HIM NOW!" .......to bleak, utter despair when their unrealistic fantasies have been crushed again, again, again and again.
Normal, rational, people would at least start to question their fantasies but, as we know, Leftists aren't normal, rational, people.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-24-2020).]
I have a friend that I discuss politics with from time to time, he is an ardent Bernie Sanders supporter, and truthfully believes Trump is the worst thing to have ever happened to this country... though he has tamed his responses quite a bit. We were discussing the impeachment proceedings, and I could tell he was really frustrated that none of us had really bothered to watch any of it. I was honestly trying not to get him upset, and he didn't get upset, but he seemed at least frustrated that I was both unconcerned and uninterested. He couldn't understand, saying that this affects us all, and it's part of history now that will be studied, etc...
I told him, here's the reality of the situation:
1 - Trump didn't break anyone's trust. There was no scandal, he came right out and forward on what he was being accused of. 2 - Trump did essentially what President Obama had done nearly 6 times during his administration, and President Bush several times as well (withhold aide money allocated by Congress to another Government). At that time, no one batted an eye or said anything. 3 - Trump ended up giving the money to Ukraine anyway, before any of this became an issue... so he didn't actually end up withholding anything. 4 - He's not being accused of any kind of crime for investigating Joe Biden, they are trying to attack him on a technicality for which they see he supposedly violated the act that was passed to prevent presidents from misappropriating money allocated by Congress. And I point you back to point #3, they got their money. 5 - Joe Biden actually committed significant crimes, for which President Trump still has every right to encourage Ukraine to support the investigation into. 6 - Finally, because of everything else that's led up to this... literally everyone recognizes this impeachment trial as an attempt to undo the 2016 election... and at best, it's merely a means for the radical left to "get back" at Trump because they're so angry with all of the policies he's implemented, and the undoing of all of Obama's policies.
With all of these 6 points I mentioned, literally everyone realizes, even Rinse (whether he wants to admit it or not), that this is a sham impeachment, so no one takes it seriously.
My friend then sent me an article talking about how 11 million people watched the opening day of the Senate Impeachment trial. He was so concerned about the fact that I was unconcerned, that he wanted to show me that people were taking it seriously. I read the article... it showed a nearly 3 million decline in viewership from the House impeachment to the Senate impeachment, and those numbers (11 million) were for only the first day. The subsequent day dropped by more than 60%. So you put this into context, with the total US population, less than 3% of the population bothered to watch the first day of the Senate impeachment, and barely 1% is watching currently.
As far as I'm concerned, with 1% viewership, it's obvious that no one cares, and everyone recognizes this for what it's worth... a complete and total joke.
My opinion on this matter is that this is a historic event. It is historic for a few reasons other than the rarity of it: 1) It is 100% partisan, ...almost. 4 times as many House Democrats voted against impeachment as Republicans voted for it. 2) No crimes have been committed and yet still an impeachment was successful. 3) The "mainstream media" are nearly 100% against Trump and reflect a clear and obvious bias that is so slanted that it can easily be considered embellished, selective or outright lies. And yet the outcome of the trial is predictable, against the "experts" in the media. Basically the media is unreliable and tainted, untrustworthy. Unscrupulously feeding false information to the public. 4) The biggest reason this impeachment is historic news, is that it will now be the first to become a weapon of partisan warfare. This is the first of many impeachments to befall Presidents who do not have the House. This impeachment is the first to to challenge the results of an election. Yes it is historic, BUT not for the reasons the faulty media advertise it to be.
My opinion on this matter is that this is a historic event. It is historic for a few reasons other than the rarity of it: 1) It is 100% partisan, ...almost. 4 times as many House Democrats voted against impeachment as Republicans voted for it. 2) No crimes have been committed and yet still an impeachment was successful. 3) The "mainstream media" are nearly 100% against Trump and reflect a clear and obvious bias that is so slanted that it can easily be considered embellished, selective or outright lies. And yet the outcome of the trial is predictable, against the "experts" in the media. Basically the media is unreliable and tainted, untrustworthy. Unscrupulously feeding false information to the public. 4) The biggest reason this impeachment is historic news, is that it will now be the first to become a weapon of partisan warfare. This is the first of many impeachments to befall Presidents who do not have the House. This impeachment is the first to to challenge the results of an election. Yes it is historic, BUT not for the reasons the faulty media advertise it to be.
I don't know that you're 100% correct but, I'm thinking you're damn close.
My opinion on this matter is that this is a historic event. It is historic for a few reasons other than the rarity of it: 1) It is 100% partisan, ...almost. 4 times as many House Democrats voted against impeachment as Republicans voted for it. 2) No crimes have been committed and yet still an impeachment was successful. 3) The "mainstream media" are nearly 100% against Trump and reflect a clear and obvious bias that is so slanted that it can easily be considered embellished, selective or outright lies. And yet the outcome of the trial is predictable, against the "experts" in the media. Basically the media is unreliable and tainted, untrustworthy. Unscrupulously feeding false information to the public. 4) The biggest reason this impeachment is historic news, is that it will now be the first to become a weapon of partisan warfare. This is the first of many impeachments to befall Presidents who do not have the House. This impeachment is the first to to challenge the results of an election. Yes it is historic, BUT not for the reasons the faulty media advertise it to be.
I think we're living in historic times, and not in a good way. History has shown, time and again, that democratic forms of government tend to devolve into tyranny. The current state of our Republic seems to be similar to that of the Roman Republic, just before it transformed into the Roman Empire.
I do NOT look forward to that. But our political climate is becoming extremely polarized. The behavior of our politicians is becoming more extreme. It's only a matter of time until a group of them decides to organize a coup of the federal government. And if that coup succeeds, we will probably end up living in a neo-feudal authoritarian state.
This is why, IMO, the government shenanigans in VA must be dealt with, harshly if necessary. They should be used as a cautionary example for any would-be tyrants in the federal gov't. If the tyranny in VA is not stopped, it will infect the rest of the nation like a disease.
Originally posted by Blacktree: This is why, IMO, the government shenanigans in VA must be dealt with, harshly if necessary. They should be used as a cautionary example for any would-be tyrants in the federal gov't. If the tyranny in VA is not stopped, it will infect the rest of the nation like a disease.
Right, but the problem is that nobody will deal with them harshly. The people on the Right, despite what the media proclaims, again and again, are the rule followers. Even if they don't agree with the rules, they attempt to work within them.
I don't see any way out at this point, but I maintain that I'm not as smart with this stuff as other people.
We're at the mercy of our "leaders", who are generally corrupt, and don't have the nation's best interest in mind.
The left's motto is "win at any cost". Remember that.
The left's motto is "win at any cost". Remember that.
The left cannot afford to loose. The DOJ is nipping at their heels and if they don't get the reins back in hand soon, their game will be over. That is why they are resorting to desperate measures and why they have so much hate for (actually fear of) Trump. Trump is the first outsider, the first "third party" player and he doesn't play by their rules.
Meaning no disrespect, but I've been hearing this for over 3 years now...
I've seen all the memes, I've seen all the Twitter posts, the teeth gnashing on Fox... and not a single person has been convicted of anything on the Democrat side.
And if they were, I'd probably not hear about it because the media wouldn't talk about it either.
Meaning no disrespect, but I've been hearing this for over 3 years now...
I've seen all the memes, I've seen all the Twitter posts, the teeth gnashing on Fox... and not a single person has been convicted of anything on the Democrat side.
And if they were, I'd probably not hear about it because the media wouldn't talk about it either.
I know it doesn't get a lot of attention, but I have been posting a steady stream of documents and articles in this thread: And so, it begins.
Even though the general public is completely unaware, the Democratic leadership is in panic. They know that if they don't regain power, their day of reckoning will come.
I know it doesn't get a lot of attention, but I have been posting a steady stream of documents and articles in this thread: And so, it begins.
Even though the general public is completely unaware, the Democratic leadership is in panic. They know that if they don't regain power, their day of reckoning will come.
I remember hearing this same exact statement a few years ago describing the Republican party. Ad far as I am concerned, the Kennedy Democratic party is already dead. All they are doing now is arguing over hanging on to dead labels or admitting openly that they are now socialists.
Oh, it just kind of "popped" into my head, about the Mueller investigation. The Mueller team worked the Russian Election Interference investigation with a constant and exacting standard of investigative non-disclosure, from the first day to the final report. The Mueller team did not "leak."
There were witnesses and people of interest that were interviewed by the Mueller team and then made their own decisions to go public about their parts of the story.
There were parts of the investigation that emerged in public during Article Three (Federal Court System) interactions with individuals who were indicted; i.e., Mike Flynn, Rick Gates, Paul Manafort, George Papadopoulos, Michael Cohen, Alex van der Zwaan, Konstantin Kilimnik (never arrested or arraigned), Richard Pinedo, Roger Stone, Jenny Diver, Sukey Tawdry ... etc.
There was also information that became public in the indictments of Russian nationals associated with the Russian Federation's Main Intelligence Directorate or GRU, the Russia-based Internet Research Agency and Concord Management and Consulting, LLC--favored (or flavored) by "Putin's chef."
"Mueller's investigation is done. Here are the 34 people he indicted along the way" Bart Jansen, Tom Vanden Brook, Kevin Johnson and William Cummings for USA Today; March 25, 2019. https://www.usatoday.com/st...-charges/3266050002/
The Mueller investigation began with the appointment of Robert Mueller as a DOJ Special Counsel on May 17, 2017, some months into the President's first term, and after the President terminated the tenure of then FBI Director James Comey. Prior to May 17, 2017, it was not the Special Counsel or "Mueller" investigation. It was a James Comey FBI-led investigation into the suspected nexus between Russia and the U.S. national elections of 2016.
The official confirmation of an FBI-led investigation into the possibilities of direct coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia came on March 20, 2017, two months (to the day) into the President's first term in office.
Whenever you see an explicit reference to "Ronald" or "rinselberg" or other such references that are indirect but unambiguous, check to see whether it's coming from "that" one exceptional Pennock's user account. That confirms it's from an individual who is never more than a millisecond away from posting another one of thousands of inane, grade school level outbursts on this forum; outbursts that are animated by the ghost of Karl Marx. Or something like that.
Regarding that Pennock's user account, I used Google and Google Scholar to see if I could come up with some particularly likely medical (that includes psychological and psychiatric) diagnosis for the offending individual, but I didn't find the kind of reports that I thought might be available online.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-27-2020).]
About the same as the odds of a convincing explanation ever becoming known to the American public that President Trump's interest in Ukraine during the course of several months in 2019 was motivated by anything other than Joe Biden's high standing in voter opinion polls about who should become the Democratic Party's candidate for President in the national elections that will culminate on Tuesday, November 3, 2020.
About the same as the odds of a convincing explanation ever becoming known to the American public that President Trump's interest in Ukraine during the course of several months in 2019 was motivated by anything other than Joe Biden's high standing in voter opinion polls about who should become the Democratic Party's candidate for President in the national elections that will culminate on Tuesday, November 3, 2020.
You are absolutely right, because the purveyors of propaganda will not report the facts in either case.
In the middle of the last century, the Italian gangster (actually Sicilian) was a common stereotype. In modern times that has been replaced by the Russian gangster (actually Ukrainian).
Every presentation by the POTUS lawyers was based on facts of the case, writings of the Founding Fathers as they deliberated on the structure of the Constitution, and on precedent set throughout our nations history.
Unlike the House's case that was based on hearsay, mind reading, lies and partial quotes from misapplied law.
Every presentation by the POTUS lawyers was based on facts of the case, writings of the Founding Fathers as they deliberated on the structure of the Constitution, and on precedent set throughout our nations history.
Unlike the House's case that was based on hearsay, mind reading, lies and partial quotes from misapplied law.
The defense blew the prosecution to pieces.
And, they have yet to site a single law broken...………..
I think the question/answer sessions today and tomorrow will be very interesting. The media hype about calling witnesses is premature, but the media is always looking for something to draw in the audience.
