You neglected to mention,that WHO itself, early on,strongly suggested that Covid-19 (before it even had a name) would be seasonal and was likely to abate when the weather turned normal. So did the medical people in China and in our own country. I'm pretty sure it was discussed in the early pages of this thread as well.
well the cv-19 is spreading in s fla in 80+ deg temps we have had with a very few dips in the month of feb this year 4 cases around the port in ft L
so NO normal spring temps will not kill it or even limit the spread if local results are typical and full on summer temps is an unknown at this point
did see on the net 140 deg F will kill it but you only get that on metal in the full sun and most inside public places have a/c set below 80F so no help there !
I've got serious questions about the information going around about this Corona thing.
And, for the record, I still see it as another version of the flu. I know it's not the flu, but the symptoms are almost identical.
According to what I'm reading, the virus transfers "only" by getting sneezed on, kissing or licking someone that has it.
Meanwhile, masks won't protect you... And washing your hands will stop the spread.
And people locked in their rooms on cruise ships keep catching it somehow...
According to the map at Johns Hopkins , Missouri had two cases yesterday. I posted a photo on Facebook noting that every major city in the country had at least a case.
Today, one case in Missouri, and according to the website, there has only been one. Not two. Also, they stopped showing the cases on a city by city basis, and are simply showing a marker in the middle of each state for some reason.
I don't think it's a fake virus, but I do think we are being manipulated quite a bit. I'm not the smartest peanut out there though and I've been wrong before.
According to what I'm reading, the virus transfers "only" by getting sneezed on, kissing or licking someone that has it.
Meanwhile, masks won't protect you... And washing your hands will stop the spread.
And people locked in their rooms on cruise ships keep catching it somehow...
Also, they stopped showing the cases on a city by city basis, and are simply showing a marker in the middle of each state for some reason.
I don't know what your sources are but I believe there are some errors there.
Virus transfers are also possible from persons coughing in proximity, which I believe has been estimated to be within 3 to 6 feet and that it might remain suspended in the air for some period of time. It can also be transferred by handling or touching items that have been contaminated in probably the same way. I have read that the virus can live on some surfaces for as many as 9 days but I have no authoritative reference for this.
Masks have 2 uses...
The first is to protect others from being infected by someone already carrying the virus. These can be the surgical mask type which is typically used in hospital settings to prevent transmission of germs from medical personnel to the patient during medical or surgical procedures. But it is not suitable to protect the wearer from being infected by airborne particles (droplets) sneezed or coughed by others since they are not designed to seal to the wearers face. It may also be possible that the mask material is not rated to, or intended to, the level necessary to be capable of filtering viruses , bacteria, etc.
The second type of mask is that which has been rated N-95 or higher by NIOSH. These, when fitted properly, are designed to permit you to breathe through the mask, not around it. For that reason they are superior to the surgical masks that you see most people wearing in news reports.
The cruise ship issue may be the result of any number of causes ( it must be like being quarantined in a petri dish). There is still interaction between guests and ship staff during meal delivery and/or preparation. Surfaces or food may be contaminated by preparers before meals are delivered and consumed. Also, less likely according to media reports, it may be that the virus might be spread through the air via the ship-wide HVAC system.
I have been monitoring the same John Hopkins site that I think you are using.
I noticed today that they did indeed change the reporting method from city / county to the statewide method. I'm not happy with this change as it doesn't help me to identify nearby risks as they occur. When the first case was reported in the urban city where my daughter attends college a few weeks ago I immediately sent her N-95 masks and hand sanitizer.
When an local infected patient died in a hospital not more than 150 yards from my place of business I obtained another batch of masks for my family. Although we are not yet wearing them I felt it was prudent to offer my loved ones what protection I could. I was not able to find hand sanitizer for sale anywhere, except at profiteering prices, so I mixed up a batch at home using Isoprohyl Alcohol (minimum 70% alcohol) and Aloe Vera gel in a 2 to 1 ratio according to a recipe I found on line and distributed it in small plastic bottles from the dollar store.
Some may think this to be overly cautious, but think how would I feel If I could have taken some simple positive action, and didn't?
[This message has been edited by Rsvl-Rider (edited 03-10-2020).]
COVID-19 is a new disease and we are still learning how it spreads, the severity of illness it causes, and to what extent it may spread in the United States.
And then they go on to mention ways that it could spread, which is all a guess.
I noticed today that they did indeed change the reporting method from city / county to the statewide method. I'm not happy with this change as it doesn't help me to identify nearby risks as they occur.
Exactly, it took away people's ability to know about risks nearby.
I wonder what they covered up when they changed it.
Exactly, it took away people's ability to know about risks nearby.
I wonder what they covered up when they changed it.
It 'took it away' for the simple fact that as more and more new localities had new infections, they all overlapped and it was nearly impossible anyway to determine one red circle from another. It's the reason there is just one big red circle over the Houston or Texas area now, instead of one for Houston, another for Harris County, another for Fort Bend County and another for Montgomery County another for San Antonio etc. As Mark said, you can still 'zoom in' for each area and get a more detailed look at each area, but for 'the big map' it was just no longer feasible to show all the infections individually.
Of course, if one is a conspiracy theorist, there is nothing that is going to sway those flat Earther knuckle draggers to believe otherwise, but for the rest of us, the changes make perfect sense.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-10-2020).]
An interesting turn of events in Massachusetts this week in reference to how Covid-19 can spread.. The state now has declared a state of emergency and has about 90 cases. About 70 of those cases are related to a single management meeting of 175 employees and guests within a company called Biogen. Were all 70 of them sneezed, coughed, or otherwise 'aerosoled' on? Not likely.
Think about the # of times/day, that you touch a surface or object and within an hour, touch your face......
Last I saw, Houston metroplex had 6 cases. This month, is the big Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, held in NRG stadium which seats about 72,000 guests, plus the livestock exhibit area. It runs for 20 consecutive evenings and last year drew 2,506,263 paying guests and about 5000 volunteer workers. Will be interesting to watch how many Covid-19 cases show up in the Hou Metro area (if any) in the next twenty 14 day periods and how many are related to this event.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-10-2020).]
Last I saw, Houston metroplex had 6 cases. This month, is the big Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo, held in NRG stadium which seats about 72,000 guests, plus the livestock exhibit area. It runs for 20 consecutive evenings and last year drew 2,506,263 paying guests and about 5000 volunteer workers. Will be interesting to watch how many Covid-19 cases show up in the Hou Metro area (if any) in the next twenty 14 day periods and how many are related to this event.
I would be surprised if this event was not postponed or cancelled. The chance for propagation of the virus with those kind of attendance numbers would probably be too great for the local government and event planners to risk.
There has been talk of postponing the Tokyo Olympics.
[This message has been edited by Rsvl-Rider (edited 03-10-2020).]
Not a chance I don't think. It's already been going on since mar 3. It runs from March 3 - 22, 2020.
Concerts every night after the rodeo competitions. There is an on-line petition circulating but I don't think it's going to go very far. I think it has 4000 signers, but the Houston metro area is over 5 million people.
Yep, Rinse. Once again a bunch of hoooie. The stock market opened up today, up about 800 points on the Dow. Even with all the hate and scare mongering of the left and the media we are in a much better place than we would have ever been with Hillary in office. Or in a few short months when Trump is reelected we will be doing great.
The only ones contributing to the uncertainty is the Left and the Media. Its as if you guys don't care about the little people you are hurting with your destructive agenda.
Pareidolia
That's always something to think about, in terms of the ups and downs of the stock market, and what various people have to say about it.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
An altocumulus cloud that resembles a human hand. [Credit: Manchester Astronomical Society, via the Times of London.]
Discussion topics (or "threads") are like stage plays, and prior to this moment, my last appearance on stage was back on Page 15, when I uttered some "lines" that connected the U.S. stock market's large retreat on Monday with what I described as investors being "spooked" by the unknowns or uncertainties (the word I used) of the corona virus situation. On Tuesday, while I was offstage, the stock market advanced and regained some of the ground that was lost on Monday.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
The stock markets are "spooked" by uncertainty.
New vaccines to protect against Covid-19? Not anytime soon. Tamaflu (Tamiflu) and a few other drugs have some anti-viral effectiveness against the common influenza strains, but not Covid-19. When will there be any such drug(s)? Currently, unknown. President Trump has speculated that Covid-19 could be seasonal, like the common influenza strains, coming on strong as autumn turns to winter and then largely disappearing as spring gives way to summer, but that's just speculation.
More uncertainty: Russia and Saudi Arabia are now at odds about oil and natural gas production, and U.S. oil and gas producers look like they are going to be damaged if the Saudis carry through with a stated intention of flooding world export markets and driving down the price of oil.
The Trump administration has either purposely or inadvertently contributed to the uncertainty that is roiling the stock markets by stumbling and slow-walking the rollout of Covid-19 testing across the United States.
The stock markets can recover, but the Stable Genius of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue (NW), Washington D.C. needs to start showing a steadier "hand."
Showing up at a Center for Disease Control press event and sporting a conspicuously incongruent campaign prop--that "Keep America Great" or KAG cap--and then spewing nonsense in front of microphones ... that's not a Presidential communications strategy for improving investor confidence.
'Flashback'
What are the likely (or at least possible) elements of Pareidolia that would explain (or at least partly explain) the lines that were given to the "rinselberg" character at that moment, when he was last onstage?
The very title of this play, in and of itself, invokes the corona virus, so it is to be expected that the "rinselberg" character would have had that in the front of his mind when he came onstage (back on Page 15) to talk about the stock market.
quote
Hudini...from your unique perspective, thoughts on the new Chinese corona virus(?)
That was on Monday, and there had been, on the Friday before (I think it was Friday), a public appearance by President Trump at the Center for Disease Control or "CDC" in a corona virus-related context, and so that also became part of the dialogue, in the lines that were given to my ("rinselberg") character.
Monday also came with remarks on the MSNBC television channel about developments attending the world's oil and natural gas supplies and pricing ("Russia"; "Saudi Arabia") and part of the background that audience members bring (or could bring) to these plays is that the "rinselberg" character is attuned to daily news reports from venues like NBC News(.com) and MSNBC, and can be visualized as reading from the NBC News(.com) website or viewing the MSNBC television channel when his character is offstage.
So there were the elements of a Pareidolia that could be conjectured, on the part of the "rinselberg" character, when we consider his lines about the stock market.
But what about these lines, from the "olejoedad" character of this play?
quote
Never let a crisis go to waste. Crash the supply chain, wreck the economy, get Trump defeated, get rid of tarriffs....... Make it all back in six months...
Those were the lines that preceded my character's previous appearance on stage, and set the context for that appearance.
Is that Reality... or Pareidolia?
Can anyone be expected to definitively resolve that dichotomy, given the complexity of the stock market that we have today, which is shaped not only by the decisions of human investors, but also by trading algorithms?
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 03-11-2020).]
Discussion topics (or "threads") are like stage plays
Stage plays, are almost always scripted and are presented exactly the same night after night from the opening lines to the final curtain. Threads are NOT scripted, having only a beginning but no pre-established middle and no known end. But, before anyone raises a complaint.......
I have always said no thread or post is "mine" and is free to 'go wherever it goes'. The second I click "Submit New Topic/Submit Reply" it belongs to the Fiero PFF community and not to me, so this thread, like all others in OT, is free to travel "where ever"....
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-11-2020).]
Sports matches are the most common type of events being canceled and or postponed across Asia, Europe, and the Americas. Second, are concerts and festivals. One of the most high-profile events postponed this week has been the Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival in Indio, California. Organizers moved the April 10-12 and April 17-19 dates to October 9-11 and 16-18 on hopes the virus crisis developing in the US would subside in the next six months.
Organizers are also pulling the plug on conferences, auto shows, film production, and even political events.
Another major event that was delayed this week has been the New York International Auto Show, postponed until late-August due to virus fears.
"We are taking this extraordinary step to help protect our attendees, exhibitors and all participants from the coronavirus," Mark Schienberg, president of the dealer group, said in a statement.
Many other noteworthy events have been delayed or outright canceled in the last several weeks as the virus spreads. Here's a round-up of some top events that have been affected:
Concerts
Mariah Carey tweeted earlier this month that her scheduled performance in Hawaii on March 10 was canceled and will be rescheduled for November. Khalid informed fans last month that his entire Asian tour would be canceled this year. Korean boy band BTS recently canceled their performances in South Korea. Rapper Stormzy canceled his "Heavy Is the Head World Tour" to Asia. The London rapper called off his Zurich, Switzerland, performance on March 5, after the government banned any events with more than 1,000 people. Rockband Green Day canceled upcoming performances in Singapore, Bangkok, Manila, Taipei, Hong Kong, Seoul, Osaka, and Tokyo. Avril Lavigne said her world tour in Philippines, Taiwan, Japan, and several cities in China would be canceled. English singer Louis Tomlinson canceled his March 11 show in Milan, Italy, and told fans he would be back "in July." Madonna canceled two shows in Paris on March 10 and 11 due to France banning gatherings over 1,000 as the number of confirmed cases rise in the country. Pearl Jam postponed their four-month North American tour on virus fears. Miley Cyrus canceled her upcoming Australian tour. Zac Brown Band announced on March 10 they would post the Owl Tour.
Conferences
2020 South by Southwest was canceled after tech companies, including Apple, Facebook, and Twitter withdrew participation on virus fears. Tucson Festival of Books, slated for March 14-15, was canceled due to virus prevention measures, it's one of the biggest book festivals in the country. Google canceled its I/O developer event near Palo Alto, California, in May. New York International Auto Show was rescheduled to late August on hopes the virus crisis in the Tri-state area would subside in six months. Mobile World Congress, the biggest smartphone conference in the world, held in Barcelona, Italy, was canceled for virus fears. Game Developers Conference in San Francisco was canceled after Sony and Microsoft pulled out of the event. Google News Initiative Global Summit was canceled because of the outbreak. Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) in Las Vegas was postponed for new virus cases in the town. Shopify canceled its annual developer conference for virus issues. Seattle's Emerald City Comic Con was canceled for March 12-15 as cases and deaths soar in Washington. TED 2020 in Vancouver for April 20-24 was canceled. World Anti-Doping Agency Symposium on March 17-18 in Lausanne, Switzerland, was canceled.
Festivals
Coachella Valley Music and Arts Festival was postponed until October for virus fears in California. Ultra Music Festival in Miami was canceled for July because of virus fears. St. Patrick's Day parades in March were canceled across Ireland. Top fashion shows in Paris and Milan have been canceled for the next several months. Tomorrowland Music Festival at the Alpe d'Huez Grand Domaine Ski resort in the French Alps, slated for March 14-21, was canceled.
Sporting Events
Chinese Grand Prix slated for April has been postponed. Bahrain Grand Prix suspends ticket sales for March 22 event. Ladies Professional Golf Association (LPGA) canceled three upcoming tournaments across Asia. FIFA postponed the Asian qualifiers for the 2022 World Cup. 2020 BNP Paribas Open in Coachella Valley, California, was canceled after virus cases surge in the region. New York City Half-Marathon planned for March 15 has been canceled. Formula E's Sanya E-Prix on March 21 in China has been canceled. Formula E's Rome E-Prix on April 4 in Rome, Italy, has been postponed. The Olympic qualifying tournament in Taiwan has been postponed. BMX European Cup rounds March 19-28 in Verona, Italy, has been postponed. Hong Kong Rugby Sevens for April 3-5 has been postponed until October 16-18. Singapore Rugby Sevens for April 11-12 has been postponed until October 10-11. Asia women's rugby championship in Hong Kong for March 14-22 has been rescheduled to May 8-16. Asia Sevens Rugby Invitational, doubling as an Olympic Sevens test event for April 25-26, is now canceled. Barcelona Marathon on March 15 postponed to October 25. Seoul Marathon on March 22 canceled. Rome Marathon on March 29 canceled. Paris Marathon on April 5 postponed to October 18. Milan Marathon in Italy on April 5 postponed. Wuhan Marathon in China on April 12 canceled. Arsenal v. Manchester soccer match on March 11 postponed.
Political Events
Senator Bernie Sanders and former Vice President have both canceled political rallies for virus fears on March 10.
Launches and Premieres
Disney+ European Press Launch event in London for the second week of March has been canceled. Peter Rabbit 2's international release has been postponed until August. No Time to Die release has been shifted to November. Sonic The Hedgehog's Chinese premiere delayed.
Film and TV Shoots
The Bachelorette filming in Italy halted. Jeopardy! and Wheel of Fortune is filming without an audience. The Amazing Race filming production in England and Scotland postponed. Mission: Impossible 7 production in Italy halted.
To sum up, the cancellations and postponements of events around the world don't' bode well for the Tokyo 2020 Olympics that are expected to start in late July. An announcement next month by the International Olympic Committee (IOC) could decide the fate of the Games.
I just looked at the statistics page on this virus. China is almost done with it with 36 new cases. While Italy has 2313 new cases with 196 deaths today alone. It is obviously out of control in Italy. Italy is in serious trouble.
One other metric that no one is talking about is the rate of infection per million, China is 56.1, Italy is 206.1, Iran 107.2 and South Korea is 151.3. Compare that to the US of A, is 3.4, obviously the US has done something right so far. I think that is pretty amazing considering how connected the US is to the rest of the world.
I just looked at the statistics page on this virus. China is almost done with it with 36 new cases. While Italy has 2313 new cases with 196 deaths today alone. It is obviously out of control in Italy. Italy is in serious trouble.
One other metric that no one is talking about is the rate of infection per million, China is 56.1, Italy is 206.1, Iran 107.2 and South Korea is 151.3. Compare that to the US of A, is 3.4, obviously the US has done something right so far. I think that is pretty amazing considering how connected the US is to the rest of the world.
You can't trust the Chinese numbers. The government lies about anything that doesn't suit them. Especially economic numbers. Or anything that might jeopardize their grip on the populace
Italy is the current hot spot. They have essentially quarantined the entire country with travel restrictions into, out of, and around the country.
And this just in...
Italy has confirmed that it will order all stores in the country that sell items other than medicine and food to close. Factories can continue working, but all restaurants and bars must close as well. The prime minister stressed that there is "no need for a run on supermarkets."
Topline: Italy on Wednesday ordered the closure of all businesses except for pharmacies, grocery stores and banks—the most dramatic actions any government has taken to combat the coronavirus as Italy contends with the world’s most severe outbreak outside of China.
Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said in a statement all commercial and retail activities must shut down, including all shops, bars and restaurants. Factories can still manufacture products, but will be required to adopt safety measures, such as regulating work shifts, allowing employees to take days off and closing all non-essential departments. Farms and other agriculture companies will still be able to produce food, but they will also have to adopt safety measures. Essential government functions, such as transportation, utilities and the postal service will still be up and running. The measures will likely harm Italy’s economy and some are worried the virus may push the country into a recession. Crucial quote: “The country needs the responsibility of each of us, the responsibility of 60 million Italians who make small sacrifices every day for the duration of this emergency,” Conte said.
Key background: The move is an escalation of Italy’s lockdown on movement within the country, which banned all travel to, from and within Italy unless it is necessary for work or health reasons. The country had already banned large events and shut down schools in response to Covid-19.
News peg: Italy is facing the worst outbreak of Covid-19 outside of China, where the disease originated. More than 12,000 people have been infected in the country while 827 have died, according to Johns Hopkins, and the disease is continuing to spread. Covid-19 has overwhelmed the Italian healthcare system, which is dealing with a shortage of qualified doctors and nurses. Some doctors have said they must choose who to treat because the demand is so high, prioritizing young people because they have the greatest chance of survival.
One other metric that no one is talking about is the rate of infection per million, China is 56.1, Italy is 206.1, Iran 107.2 and South Korea is 151.3. Compare that to the US of A, is 3.4, obviously the US has done something right so far. I think that is pretty amazing considering how connected the US is to the rest of the world.
Current rate of infection per million - USA is 3.9 and Canada is 2.7
A lot of members here love to knock the socialized Canadian medical system. After the dust settles, it'll be interesting to see which country, Canada or the US, has the lowest rate of infection.
Current rate of infection per million - USA is 3.9 and Canada is 2.7
A lot of members here love to knock the socialized Canadian medical system. After the dust settles, it'll be interesting to see which country, Canada or the US, has the lowest rate of infection.
It will be the nation with the most area that is most sparsely populated and fewer international visitors i suspect.
Not a chance I don't think. It's (Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo) already been going on since mar 3. It runs from March 3 - 22, 2020.
Concerts every night after the rodeo competitions. There is an on-line petition circulating but I don't think it's going to go very far. I think it has 4000 signers, but the Houston metro area is over 5 million people.
I was sure dead wrong about THAT! Houston cancelled rodeo and any other gathering that exceeds 250 people. The Rodeo BBQ cookoff was last Feb 28. 77,000+ people attended, (did I mention Houston Rodeo was a big deal?) and it was learned late yesterday, that one of the attendees had coronavirus.
The remainder of the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo was canceled Wednesday as officials in both Houston and Harris County declare a health emergency.
According to an alert from the Houston Rodeo app, the grounds at NRG Park will be closed as of 4 p.m.
Houston Mayor Sylvester Turner said the new presumptive positive case of coronavirus that was reported Tuesday in Montgomery County was not related to international travel, and there was evidence of community spread in that case. That is what led to the decision to cancel the Rodeo, Turner said.
“This decision has not come easily,” Turner said.
Harris County Judge Lina Hidalgo said it is believed that the Montgomery County coronavirus patient, identified only as a man in his 40s who lives in Montgomery County, attended the barbecue cookoff at the Rodeo on Friday, Feb. 28. She said epidemiologists are working to retrace the patient’s steps and determine whether the patient had symptoms when attending the event.
According to the rodeo attendance numbers, there were 73,433 people who attended the “World Championship Barb-B-Que Contest,” on Friday, Feb. 28. The total attendance numbers for that day were 77,632.
In other news, I took this photo today of the toilet paper/paper towel aisle in the local Walmart...
The only place I visited today that had any tp was the local CVS. I got 12 rolls in case my sisters needed some or in case my church ran low. Oddly, in Walmart, I saw a guy with a shopping cart plumb full of Nabisco original saltine crackers and about 40 boxes of regular table salt. I asked him why.."I'm just stocking up in case..."
What the heck is anyone going to do with that much salt???
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-11-2020).]
Current rate of infection per million - USA is 3.9 and Canada is 2.7
A lot of members here love to knock the socialized Canadian medical system. After the dust settles, it'll be interesting to see which country, Canada or the US, has the lowest rate of infection.
That would not be the metric I would chose to see which system was better. I would chose how many survived vs how many were infected. The number infected doesn't mean anything as to how well your medical system is working. And like maryjane said the dispersed population of Canada plays into the numbers too.
Current rate of infection per million - USA is 3.9 and Canada is 2.7
A lot of members here love to knock the socialized Canadian medical system. After the dust settles, it'll be interesting to see which country, Canada or the US, has the lowest rate of infection.
LOL its ****ing cold and where are you going to go?
Stage plays, are almost always scripted and are presented exactly the same night after night from the opening lines to the final curtain. Threads are NOT scripted, having only a beginning but no pre-established middle and no known end. But, before anyone raises a complaint.......
I have always said no thread or post is "mine" and is free to 'go wherever it goes'. The second I click "Submit New Topic/Submit Reply" it belongs to the Fiero PFF community and not to me, so this thread, like all others in OT, is free to travel "where ever"....
I was thinking of "Improv"...
"Pareidolia and the Stock Markets" is an idea that I may bring out again (an encore) but not right away.
I was at Lent Service at church tonight and talked to a woman there who had a daughter who was a doctor in Italy. She was talking about how bad it was in Italy. How many of the people who were in critical care in Italy there were, they didn't have enough ventilators to cover all of the patients. And so she and the other doctors had to decide who would get that type of treatment and it was devastating her and the other doctors. They felt they were being forced to play God and decide who might live and who might die.
And then I saw this video from Glen Beck where he read a letter from a doctor in Italy. This is quite troubling. All I can say is that my hope is we can prevent the mass infection of our citizens by our president's early reaction to block people from China from coming here right away in January. And now he has blocked people coming from Europe as a precaution too. How will this play out. I don't know. All I do know is that the president, the CDC and other medical groups and even the individual doctors are doing the best they can to prevent this virus from becoming as bad in our country.
In other news, I took this photo today of the toilet paper/paper towel aisle in the local Walmart...
The only place I visited today that had any tp was the local CVS. I got 12 rolls in case my sisters needed some or in case my church ran low. Oddly, in Walmart, I saw a guy with a shopping cart plumb full of Nabisco original saltine crackers and about 40 boxes of regular table salt. I asked him why.."I'm just stocking up in case..."
What the heck is anyone going to do with that much salt???
It's even more odd since COVID19 does NOT cause diarrhea.
That said, during the last hurricane scare down here I was amazed and amused at the weird stuff that people decided to hoard.
Current rate of infection per million - USA is 3.9 and Canada is 2.7
A lot of members here love to knock the socialized Canadian medical system. After the dust settles, it'll be interesting to see which country, Canada or the US, has the lowest rate of infection.
Heh heh, the excuses are already pouring in.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
It will be the nation with the most area that is most sparsely populated and fewer international visitors i suspect.
I'd like to dispel the notion that the population of Canada is evenly dispersed throughout the entire Arctic tundra. Facts are, 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles of the US border. In regards to international visitors bringing the virus to North America, I should be in real jeopardy living here in Vancouver then. It's quite a tourist mecca... and those enormous floating petri dishes (cruise ships) dock here on a regular basis.
quote
Originally posted by MadMark:
That would not be the metric I would chose to see which system was better. I would chose how many survived vs how many were infected. The number infected doesn't mean anything as to how well your medical system is working. And like maryjane said the dispersed population of Canada plays into the numbers too.
Well, you are the one who mentioned it initially, Mark... Here. We can choose whatever other metric you'd prefer... but with Canadians not needing to pay for a doctor's visit, it stands to reason that Canadians will be diagnosed much sooner and then quickly quarantined and treated... long before they spread it to everyone else within their social circles.
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
LOL its ****ing cold and where are you going to go?
I like that response, even if it's not entirely true.
It's even more odd since COVID19 does NOT cause diarrhea.
quote
What are the symptoms? Similar to other respiratory illnesses, the symptoms of COVID-19 may include fever, cough, and shortness of breath.5
People infected with COVID-19 may experience any range of these symptoms along with aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat and diarrhea.
What are the symptoms? How can you tell the difference between the novel coronavirus and a cold or influenza (flu)? The symptoms are similar, including fever, cough, and shortness of breath. Some patients with novel coronavirus have had gastrointestinal problems or diarrhea.
Two laboratories from China recently reported that they “successfully” isolated live 2019-nCoV from patients’ stool, according to Gu and colleagues.
Before respiratory symptoms, many patients with COVID-19 had diarrhea, nausea, vomiting and abdominal discomfort, according to Jinyang Gu, MD, of the department of transplantation, Xinhua Hospital Affiliated to Shanghai Jiao Tong University School of Medicine and colleagues.
With COVID-19, doctors are still trying to understand the full picture of disease symptoms and severity. Reported symptoms in patients have varied from mild to severe, and can include fever, cough and shortness of breath, according to the CDC.
In general, studies of hospitalized patients have found that about 83% to 98% of patients develop a fever, 76% to 82% develop a dry cough and 11% to 44% develop fatigue or muscle aches, according to a review study on COVID-19 published Feb. 28 in the journal JAMA. Other symptoms, including headache, sore throat, abdominal pain, and diarrhea, have been reported, but are less common.
But, I don't think this mysterious run on TP is solely because of Covid-19symptoms being reported. In our modern society, right or wrong, we assume the nation will be able to feed the food/nutrition pipeline no matter what, because we've seen it true after major weather events when electric power is interrupted for sometimes weeks and grocery stores basically have empty shelves. We know too that the gov (via USDA) keeps a large staple food stuff supply in inventory, including frozen boxed beef, pork, chicken and most certainly a huge supply of milk and cheese. The govt does not tho, keep much paper goods in reserve. They rely on the normal manufacturing logistics train from paper mill to distribution centers to trucking to retail stores. If, this pandemic affects the manufacturing end (upstream) of things, the women of this nation will be raising holy hell about no TP, as they are by far the biggest user of the stuff. I've seen my own wife indicate several times that it might be ok if we run short on this food or that food by by gawd we better not run out of toilet paper and certainly not her preferred brand.
The other part of it is that a HUGE # of people in this supposedly intelligent nation, in spite of all the information out there to the contrary, still equate Covid-19 to the flu and a big part of that belief goes back to that 'misnomered' term "stomach flu"which is actually a form of dysentery or some other kind of gastro (usually bacterial) problem and those DO result in diarrhea. Anyone that has ever had dysentery knows you will go thru tp like mad, tho real dysentery with bloody stool is actually pretty rare in this country. Some people, (as I did earlier in this thing) read 'norovirus"but think corona virus and one of the hallmarks of norovirus is vomiting and diarrhea..
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-12-2020).]
Originally posted by Patrick: but with Canadians not needing to pay for a doctor's visit, it stands to reason that Canadians will be diagnosed much sooner and then quickly quarantined and treated... long before they spread it to everyone else within their social circles.
I like that response, even tho there is SO much wrong with it. Only 8.5% of Americans today (25.6 million) are without basic health insurance. (as of Sept. 10, 2019) That of course means that 91.5% (305.4 million) of Americans do have health insurance. Among that 8.5% tho is about 2% that choose not to have it because they have the financial ability to pay cash for almost any health problem, so that means 93.5% of Americans have the ability to be seen free or virtually cost free for their health needs. The population of the USA Jan 2020 is 331 million people. The population of Canada is approx 37.5 million people today. The US has 267.9 million more people with health insurance than Canada does.
The other side of that is US federal law prevents any medical facility to ever turn away anyone with life threatening health problems and in this declared pandemic, that includes anyone with symptoms of or history related to Covid-19.
I very much suspect that the largest demographic that fails to seek medical aid at this time are those who simply think it is just a cold and it will be resolved by OTC medications and of course, those conspiracy nutjobs (like the antivaxxers) that won't go to the doctor under any circumstances, financially able or not.
I read yesterday, that Germany, a nation with mandatory health insurance coverage laws for all citizens is prepared for up to 70% of it'c citizens to become infected with Covid-19. The virus doesn't give a crap if one has health coverage or not. And, because it is so strongly held that perfectly healthy appearing infected people are shedding the virus, few will have any apparent reason for seeking health care until after symptoms appear. General health, age and pre-existing conditions/risk factors will play the biggest role in determining how many end up dead no matter which nation it is. Among the highest influencers for death in regards to Covid-19 is high blood pressure. About 30% of all Americans (103 million) have hypertension/high blood pressure. Add diabetes or COPD or congestive heart failure to the mix and the odds are really stacked against ya, and these factors will be much bigger than whether one has the ability to get medical care for 'free' or not. About 17% of Canadians have high blood pressure.
I went to my primary care doctor today. About 8 miles from home in the nearest little town. Previously scheduled appointment for diabetic blood work and I've had a dang runny nose for about 5 months now. Doc had previously told me it was likely just pollen allergies. (Pine is the big winter pollen producer here, as well as Ashe Juniper..aka 'cedar'. ) I wanted some relief from the runny nose. Since I had a bunch of them available, and didn't want to chance anything with healthcare givers since I had been a recent visitor to a hospital full of ill people, I wore a surgical mask when I went in. The woman at the desk asked: "Are you wearing that mask because you have a respiratory problem or because you are afraid of getting something?"
Me: I'm wearing it because I have a runny nose, a sometimes cough, and partly because I'm selfish in that I have something and don't want YOU to have it" She wasn't amused. Instead of telling me to take a seat in the waiting room (there was only 1 other person there) she pointed down the hall, said "Go in the first room there on the right, shut the door and stay there until someone comes in to check you."
The 'someone' person came in shortly, with a better mask than I was wearing, disposable gloves, took my temp remotely via my ear, listened to my chest and asked me where I had been recently, what all my symptoms were etc. I heard her telling the doctor and about 30 minutes later he came in and examined me. He was in no mood for small talk and was noticeably more standoffish than when I had seen him many times before.
They are taking no chances either. Ended up getting a steroid shot (my 1st ever) and a prescription for Clyndamycin and a some kind of nasal spray. Limited to what I can take because I am allergic to almost all versions of penicillin and all sulfa drugs. (My diabetes workup looked fine)
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-12-2020).]
Honestly, I'm not worried about it. I know if I get infected (which I someone hope I do), I will recover just fine and then will be immune to it.
It's a respiratory virus, from my understanding. If you are old, have health issues such as diabetes and high blood pressure, and especially if you are a smoker, then this virus is bad news.
