What does a healthy person stand to gain by taking this hastily prepared vaccine? How do the risks weigh against that benefit of taking the vaccine?
Altho a healthy person is much more likely to survive being infected, that healthy person still sheds the virus and infects other people, healthy and not-so-healthy 'other people'. If a healthy person looks at it from only their own perspective, then the gain is probably seen as minimal. If that person views things from a wider and more accurate perspective, then the gain is much more significant.
US fatality from covid today is stated as 1,019 per 1 million cases.
I suppose, once again, it's up to the individuals,whther to do the right thing for the overall population or to just consider their own personal lives and risks against the risk to the nation.
but, as head of state of a large South American nation recently said: If you turn into a crocodile, it’s your problem […] If you become superhuman, if a woman starts to grow a beard or if a man starts to speak with an effeminate voice, they will not have anything to do with it.”
(of course, he is also on record as saying covid19 was just a 'little flu'..
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-26-2020).]
You've added data and even made assertions presented as fact when they are not at all facts. But that answers the question that I asked, so thank you.
Well I'm not prone to join the collectivist movement in this form either, as you would have ascertained. But there has been a death from the vaccine reported then unreported. There are confirmations of Bell's Palsy.
This woman herein will be viewed as someone near death already: my mother (79 years old) in a nursing home with her mobility limited to a wheelchair just recovered from it with no vaccine. She's diagnosed as obese and has very poor motor skills now. Can't pick up a sticky note or write her name. There are days she doesn't even get out of bed. But she has a strong will and I call her healthy in her limited capacity. She didn't die of covid.
If a teenager commits suicide from being locked down in isolation the world has lost tons of quality life hours of that person's life. And with it their contribution to the collective we're sacrificing to 'protect'. Compared to an aged obese person in retirement or near retirement and considering their quality hours of life, we've made a huge mistake in locking everyone down.
The same way that smoking sees few immediate negatives, we're now seeing more fallout from these lockdowns that easily will outweigh the benefits. No tax revenue, more drug abuse, more domestic strife, more moral ambiguity, more social stresses/anxiety causing health and behavioral problems.
[This message has been edited by sourmash (edited 12-26-2020).]
Suggestion. Idea. Not "pushing it" but putting it on the table (so to speak).
Find your bracket, in terms of your age and your gender, in the data tabulation that is at the very beginning of this weekly Covid update from the CDC. This is the most recent weekly update, from December 23.
If someone has never gone directly to the CDC website before, this one long page of data (need to scroll to see it all) would be a good one to have for a "first encounter."
What does a healthy person stand to gain by taking this hastily prepared vaccine? How do the risks weigh against that benefit of taking the vaccine?
I guess each individual would have to make that decision. Got word today that MadernaTX is “Un-Blinding” the study and will let us know next week whether we got the placebo or the vaccine. Those that got the placebo will be offered the vaccine at their next appointment if they chose to get it. Not sure which I got but if I got the placebo, I’ll be getting two more shots.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 12-31-2020).]
I'm a huge Warp Speed fan, and as far as the protestations from those who say that these vaccines have been developed and made ready for distribution with undue haste, they are overlooking some very important aspects of the situation.
These Covid-specific vaccines are just the last milestones of research projects that have been underway for years. Many years especially for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, which are mRNA (messenger RNA) kinds of vaccines that already have a track record in the farming and ranching sectors, in terms of inoculating livestock.
The "Warp" in "Warp Speed" has a lot to do with the commitments to manufacture the new vaccines in quantity before the Phase 3 trials were completed, and before the clinical trail data was ready to present to the FDA for the Emergency Use Authorizations. Risk was assumed, but the risk was that the extra expenditures to manufacture the vaccines in quantity would have to be written off as financial loss if the Phase 3 trial data did not have favorable outcomes. In that scenario (which has not happened) the vaccine that was manufactured would have been destroyed.
It's not "your father's vaccine" but this is called "progress."
If (G_d forbid) a new strain of the Covid virus emerges that proves resistant to these new vaccines, the vaccine manufacturers will (likely) be able to "tweak" the vaccine formulas that they already have to target any new strain of the virus. That would be like a small model year update that changes the programming of the ECU or ECM to advance the spark plug timing under certain very specific conditions to reduce hydrocarbon emissions. What potential customer is going to "fret" about that?
A sore arm for a day is better than no arm for the rest of a lifetime, or no more days.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-31-2020).]
Originally posted by rinselberg: A sore arm for a day is better than no arm for the rest of a lifetime, or no more days.
That, misses the whole point of vaccinations. It's the small view, the narrow and short sighted view and IMO, is not a much better view than is being held by those that won't get the vaccination. It's not about my arm, or yours, or Blackrams or anyone else's arm.
It's about US collectively preventing or minimizing the spread to other people, thus preventing THEM from being hospitalized or dying. . Period. That, has always been how vaccination programs work. I saw and listened to a nurse last week as she was about to be vaccinated with the first dose of the Pfizer vac, and she explained why she was getting it much more clearly and eloquently than I ever can.
It is also how, in centuries past, natural community herd immunity worked, tho at a staggering cost in lives and misery.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 12-31-2020).]
1. A Nurse or Pharmacist intentionally takes enough vaccine to vaccinate 500 people, out of cold storage and leaves it out to 'spoil'. Fired and criminal charges have been filed by the police. reckless endangerment, adulterating a prescription drug and criminal damage to property, all felonies. What could possibly be the motive for such an act? https://www.foxnews.com/us/...e-wisconsin-hospital
2. The new covid variant, already found in 1st Colorado, then Calif, has also shown up in a 20 yr old man with no history of travel, in Martin County Fla, which is on the SE coast of Fla north of Palm Beach. I suppose that means he was infected locally. Genie is definitely out of the bottle.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-01-2021).]
That, misses the whole point of vaccinations. It's the small view, the narrow and short sighted view and IMO, is not a much better view than is being held by those that won't get the vaccination. It's not about my arm, or yours, or Blackrams or anyone else's arm.
It's about US collectively preventing or minimizing the spread to other people, thus preventing THEM from being hospitalized or dying. . Period. That, has always been how vaccination programs work. I saw and listened to a nurse last week as she was about to be vaccinated with the first dose of the Pfizer vac, and she explained why she was getting it much more clearly and eloquently than I ever can.
It is also how, in centuries past, natural community herd immunity worked, tho at a staggering cost in lives and misery.
I guess each individual would have to make that decision. Got word today that MadernaTX is “Un-Blinding” the study and will let us know next week whether we got the placebo or the vaccine. Those that got the placebo will be offered the vaccine at their next appointment if they chose to get it. Not sure which I got but if I got the placebo, I’ll be getting two more shots.
Rams
Pfizer and BioNTech have made the same offer to their trial participants.
"Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to offer their Covid-19 vaccine to any clinical trial volunteer who received placebo by March 1, several months earlier than initially planned." https://www.statnews.com/20...-placebo-volunteers/
Pfizer and BioNTech have made the same offer to their trial participants.
"Pfizer and its partner BioNTech plan to offer their Covid-19 vaccine to any clinical trial volunteer who received placebo by March 1, several months earlier than initially planned." https://www.statnews.com/20...-placebo-volunteers/
Had not heard that but I am not surprised. My understanding is that there was a mutiny brewing among the participants. My own thinking is that anyone who joined any study believed in the science and was hoping they received the vaccine versus the placebo. We all had to decide if the risk was worth it.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-02-2021).]
Absolutely, although that would be at my own expense. I would have to read our agreement again to verify but I believe doing that would not be within the spirit of our agreement. I know cutting in line and getting vaccinated from another source goes against our agreement and would nullify my value of participating in the study.
To clarify, there is guidance contained within the agreement addressing several different scenarios/protocols, especially if contracting COVID-19 and other potentialities. Getting additional testing is not something I would consider. IMHO, you either get and go with the program or don’t.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-02-2021).]
