I am looking for answers from unabashed, self described leftists, liberals, Democrats, etc. I am not looking for conservatives, right wingers or Republicans to tell us what they think the left believes. We hear plenty of that.
*Marked politics because it seems that to love your country is now a political position rather than a virtue.
I might have something more to say about the Topic here (as worded), in the coming days.
It's always kind of grated on me that it's common (especially on this forum) to refer to a person as a "Leftist", but I've not ever heard or seen (that I can recall) anyone being described as a "Rightist." Right-winger, I guess, comes the closest, of the words that come to my mind.
Maybe this matter of terminology should become a New Topic?
I might have something more to say about the Topic here (as worded), in the coming days.
It's always kind of grated on me that it's common (especially on this forum) to refer to a person as a "Leftist", but I've not ever heard or seen (that I can recall) anyone being described as a "Rightist." Right-winger, I guess, comes the closest, of the words that come to my mind.
Maybe this matter of terminology should become a New Topic?
That which is in the common lexicon is there because it is commonly understood. For a more detailed discussion, we will go to rinselberg's thread on Orwellian Newspeak.
I don't consider myself "left or right" or "democrat or republican"..
I tend to take each issue individually. Depending on the issue, i may have a more "liberal" stance/opinion, or i may have a more "conservative" stance/opinion. Just depends on the issue being discussed.
I not loyal to any party or "group".. I don't "follow" or "support" any politician, as im skeptical about every single one of them.
I prefer Liberal or Conservative, if one must catagorize.
More preferred is 'Citizen'.
Categories or labels facilitate discussion.
I could say, "one who might have voted for Hillary or Bernie, might be in favor of abortion, might see merit in socialism, might be opposed to private ownership of firearms, (and on and on, ad infinitum)" in a decidedly rinselberesque manner, or I could simply say "leftist" and be clearly understood by most reasonably intelligent people.
I don't say "rightest" because it is not in common usage and may not be understood.
I identify with the right, but don't often use the phrase "right wing" because it has been co-opted by propagandists to insinuate ideas that are not associated with the right. Depending on context, I might not object to being called right wing.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 01-28-2020).]
Based on the lack of response to the original question, I am going to draw a couple of conclusions:
1) No one wants to identify with the left.
or
2) Those who do identify with the left do not love America.
The common response to the question is: I love America, but I want to change America.
What kind of day would you have if you said to your wife, "I love you but I want to change you" ?
"Dear, you are out of step with the times, you leave trash all over, I don't agree with anything you say, you can't do anything right, and your parents are mean old bigots, but you sure are sexy. Wanna fool around?"
I could say, "one who might have voted for Hillary or Bernie, might be in favor of abortion, might see merit in socialism, might be opposed to private ownership of firearms, (and on and on, ad infinitum)" in a decidedly rinselberesque manner, or I could simply say "leftist" and be clearly understood by most reasonably intelligent people.
I don't say "rightest" because it is not in common usage and may not be understood.
I identify with the right, but don't often use the phrase "right wing" because it has been co-opted by propagandists to insinuate ideas that are not associated with the right. Depending on context, I might not object to being called right wing.
I know that we on the Right aren't supposed to chime in, but I've always suspected that the left refuses to call those of us on the Conservative side the "right" because that would paint the picture that we are ... right.. At least in words. Instead, they add qualifiers to the word like "wing" or "alt". And then they change the meanings of those words to make us into evil boogymen to try and justify their motives.
Expected response from people that have no ground to stand on. You may not like my words, but you always know exactly where I stand. No confusion. No definition changes to make myself "feel" better. Nope, just hate and negs from the quiet liberals of this board.
No work today. Just going to play in the garage with my award winning 87GT. Hopefully a four wheel alignment this afternoon, but no rush. What I will not be doing is making my neighbor change his ways, forgo responsibilities, or anything illegal. You know, right winger things.
Eye doctors and opticians use OD and OS to refer to Left eye and Right eye. D for the Latin "Dexter" and S for the Latin "Sinister.'
It's the "Optiboard" experience, speaking.Click to show
I was just thinking of the possibility of a new political terminology that would break away from the "baggage" of so much history.
No, you are attempting, hard I may say, to troll several members of this board, to include Randye. The very same mantra you are producing about the old O'Donnel freak out. You have been involved with that conversation in the past, and are playing coy for no apparent reason other than to continue to stir the pot.
Why are WE forced to deal with mental illness. Honest question here. There was a time when there was only one town loony. Now, WE do not let our children play out in the front yard without supervision!
Carry on Ronald, but history is written. You are an unkind troll with zero respect for your fellow forum members.
I know that we on the Right aren't supposed to chime in,....
I didn't mean to imply that the right is not welcome, I just didn't want the right to tell me that the left hates America. I wanted the left to tell me what they think.
I know that we on the Right aren't supposed to chime in, but I've always suspected that the left refuses to call those of us on the Conservative side the "right" because that would paint the picture that we are ... right.. At least in words.
'Rightist' is a pretty common term in academia, but not in everyday or media use. It infers to many, that the group, ideal, or person being spoken of is "correct" and those on the left aren't comfortable with that.
The fact is tho, that the term "rightist" in Europe's distant past, was used for and by those who wanted to establish or implement a return to a monarchy or authoritarian regime. We in this country (as a sovereign nation) have never had nor desired a king or dictator, so it would not be applicable to use the "rightist" term and thus, the term is simply not used in this country when discussing domestic politics.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 01-28-2020).]
Based on the lack of response to the original question, I am going to draw a couple of conclusions:
1) No one wants to identify with the left.
or
2) Those who do identify with the left do not love America.
The common response to the question is: I love America, but I want to change America.
What kind of day would you have if you said to your wife, "I love you but I want to change you" ?
A decent point, however since America has been being changed / changing for quite a while, some changes desired at this point may be corrections. Hand slaps back into line perhaps? INdividual accountability and responsibility perhaps?
"I love you and I don't want to lose you"?
"Change" the Constitution... no.
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 01-28-2020).]
I don't consider myself "left or right" or "democrat or republican"..
I tend to take each issue individually. Depending on the issue, i may have a more "liberal" stance/opinion, or i may have a more "conservative" stance/opinion. Just depends on the issue being discussed.
I not loyal to any party or "group".. I don't "follow" or "support" any politician, as im skeptical about every single one of them.
'Rightist' is a pretty common term in academia, but not in everyday or media use. It infers to many, that the group, ideal, or person being spoken of is "correct" and those on the left aren't comfortable with that.
quote
Originally posted by Fats:
I know that we on the Right aren't supposed to chime in, but I've always suspected that the left refuses to call those of us on the Conservative side the "right" because that would paint the picture that we are ... right..
There is very good historical and cultural reason why we refer to the right as being both correct and as a direction opposite to the left.
•Wisdom is to the right; foolishness is to the left ◦
Ecclesiastes 10:2, "A wise man’s heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man’s heart directs him toward the left." ............
Matthew 25:33, 41, "and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left. 41 Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels."
"The use of the left hand for ceremonial purposes is therefore severely limited and, in many religious Asian countries, the offering and acceptance of gifts is conducted exclusively with the right hand. In Buddhism, the right-hand fork in the path is the one that leads to Nirvana, while the left hand fork is to be rejected."
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 01-29-2020).]
I'm going to try to be as unbiased as I truly can be... I mean this... and then I'll give my biased opinion down below:
Most of society is *raised* into a political party, in as much as we are raised into a religion. I'm going to hold my personal opinions on this until after my break. As such, people are raised to believe one side is correct, and one side is wrong. We will follow this side almost to the grave, in the same way that warring factions are raised to believe one truth over another. Like the Palestinians believing Jews are inherently evil (even though they aren't). What we DO know is that for as much as the left and right is believed to have changed over the years, they've always maintained certain principles for the past 150-200 years that are unchanged.
Today, as a result of social media and improved communications (by everyone), the left, particularly the more impressionable youth who lack knowledge, experience, and wisdom, are gravitating to the most extreme constants on the left. By virtue of this, the left has essentially shifted SIGNIFICANTLY to the left. The majority of the left is *NOT OK* with this, and don't subscribe to socialism, or all this crazy stuff. But here's the problem...
If you are a huge Miami Dolphins fan, and they start losing a lot, do you then become a Patriots fan because they start winning? No, of course you don't. And... like our politics... this is where much of the problems lay. Even though a good 1/2 of the Democrats don't want Socialism, they'd never vote for a Republican.
On the other hand, if Donald Trump had registered as a Democrat, he would have won overwhelmingly the Democrat vote, and the Democrats would be proud of him, and even more so... they'd likely end up supporting almost all of his policies, except perhaps things like abortion. But all the perceived environmental concerns would be ignored by the media, because "their team was winning."
The reality is... Democrats make up almost 3/4ths of this country's population... they really do. Many of the red states we won are really blue states, but lower middle-class people are far more pragmatic about their lives, and far less idealistic. The media and coastal left would make fun of them, saying they don't know what they're voting for, but these are people who aren't voting for a cause other than economic freedom and patriotism. These are Democrats and Republicans who swing the vote, that the media always purposely ignores. They were called Reagan Democrats, and now Trump Democrats.
Here's where I'm going to be more opinionated. I was originally a Democrat, though my parents were Republican. I voted for Bill Clinton as the first president I could vote for. I also continued to vote for Democrat Senators and some Congressmen, while also voting for some Republicans. As I got older, I shifted more and more towards Republicans. I always felt like I was being pragmatic and voted on the issues. While the Republicans and Democrats equally seemed to never really fulfill their promises, the Democrats 100% absolutely never did. A simple example is Senator Bill Nelson (who was replaced by Republican Rick Scott). I voted for Bill Nelson twice. I believed that because he was an astronaut, he would improve the funding of NASA. So while I didn't vote for Obama either time, I did vote for Nelson twice (once during Bush, and once during Obama). This was Senator Nelson's big draw... and yet, not only did he not really do anything for NASA... in fact, NASA saw some of the most egregious cuts to their budget and space programs while Senator Nelson was in power. He did nothing to stop any of this, and voted for all the bills that directly impacted NASA. While Nelson was Senator,
- President Obama cancelled the Space Shuttle program, causing us to have to launch from Russia, using Russian rockets.
- President Obama turned the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in San Fran to the Center for Climate Research (most scientists quit or retired, massive knowledge drain)
- President Obama focused Goddard Space Center on "Muslim Outreach," even sending a prince of Saudi Arabia into space *AT NO COST TO HIM*
- President Obama cut funding for NASA every budget bill that he actually passed that wasn't a continuing resolution
I suspect people will get upset and start sending me links, but Nelson did very little for NASA, and rarely used his platform to advance the cause for which most of the Space Coast voted for him.
I can find a lot of wrong with the republicans I've voted for too... but they've been far more successful than they've been unsuccessful. Furthermore, I've found that the only thing I got with voting for Democrat politicians, is a slow but methodical progression towards more liberalism, more Government control, and more curtailment of rights and freedoms, and pretty much against everything that I've come to believe makes this country what it is.
I was not a bandwagon voter. Trump is one of the most liberal Republican Presidents we've ever had. Every issue he brought forward were real issues that we all were concerned about, that every other politician refused to tackle or even talk about because it was believed to be politically unsavvy. Every politician before him (except Reagan) came into office trying to be as meek as possible, and say the least amount of things necessary to keep the base and not offend the other side.
Trump came out swinging. I was excited when he was considering a run in 2012, so when I heard he was going to make an announcement... I could not have been more excited.
Why would anyone bother replying to your question. You've already made up your mind on what each member here is as far as "R" or "D" No matter if that person took time out of their life to thump for those in his town/state running as "R's " The o/p just wanted to have a bashing thread. nothing more. While you're sitting on your ass. I'll be helping those in my LIBERAL state, try to win against the dem running. but you'll say the same crap you have in other threads.
I don't have to list the reasons I love my country. I let my volunteer work, and actions speak for it. Anyone can type on a keyboard and make claims of their love of thy country. O/P what are you doing in your local town/county and state to help those running with an "R" beside their name campaign ? What are you doing to help make your local area better?
other than maybe getting off thy butt to vote? Do you volunteer at the va? or any other vet support group? And by support I don't mean throwing money at them and say'n you did your part to help. what have you DONE. or any other worthy cause, or would that be helping leaches.
[This message has been edited by E.Furgal (edited 01-29-2020).]
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Most of society is *raised* into a political party, in as much as we are raised into a religion. I'm going to hold my personal opinions on this until after my break. As such, people are raised to believe one side is correct, and one side is wrong. We will follow this side almost to the grave, in the same way that warring factions are raised to believe one truth over another.
True to some extent I suppose, & "Most" is perhaps an accurate modifier. A lot depends on one's 'social environment' once they get out on their own as adults. Both my parents were hard driven Dems having lived thru the Great Depression and WW2 and thought FDR and the New Deal were the best things that ever happened to the country. (I can understand that too) I and all my siblings are Conservatives and always have been.
I am looking for answers from unabashed, self described leftists, liberals, Democrats, etc. I am not looking for conservatives, right wingers or Republicans to tell us what they think the left believes. We hear plenty of that.
*Marked politics because it seems that to love your country is now a political position rather than a virtue.
As a life long Conservative, a registered Democrat and a Veteran, I'm stuck with no response. This I will say, I love the Constitution and what it stands for.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-29-2020).]
As a life long Conservative, a registered Democrat and a Veteran, I'm stuck with no response. This I will say, I love the Constitution and what it stands for.
Rams
So that would mean Bloomberg is out, Bernie is out, Hillary is out, who is in as far as Democrats to vote for who love the Constitution and what it stands for?
So that would mean Bloomberg is out, Bernie is out, Hillary is out, who is in as far as Democrats to vote for who love the Constitution and what it stands for?
Hmm.. As of this moment in time, I see no candidate on the Dem side I could vote for. Be assured, I will vote. But I don’t see a single Conservative in the group.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-29-2020).]
Hmm.. As of this moment in time, I see no candidate on the Dem side I could vote for. Be assured, I will vote. But I don’t see a single Conservative in the group.
Rams
That's part of what had me confused, is the "registered D" thing old and not relevant to you today? Maybe like above, do you vote based on major issues that are important to you regardless of party affiliation?
That's part of what had me confused, is the "registered D" thing old and not relevant to you today? Maybe like above, do you vote based on major issues that are important to you regardless of party affiliation?
I will say this, I always vote Conservative, I have never voted a straight ticket in my life. Unfortunately for my registered party, they are not conservative in nature or policy. I could easily vote for a Conservative Dem, I just don't see any and haven't for a long time.
lol
