I didn't look at the videos but just noticed that those two pictures contradict each other. The first says April 2019 the next says 5 days later in January 2020
No. It says "after 5 days" meaning that is the stage the building was in after only 5 days of construction. Construction on the site began on Jan 23 2020.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-02-2020).]
Modular building doesn't take long to complete compared to the structural steel type employed for domestic facilities. Their response time is incredible, but I doubt it is meant for long term use, as our facilities are.
I applaud their very media filled effort to build this facility.
With that said, China kept this virus from the WHO for 29 days.
Chinese infrastructure cannot be even remotely compared to acceptable, let alone good. They build shat.
While this virus was metastasizing, WE here in America were force fed how great China, the NBA, and all the communist companies loving the great Asian nation of China.
I don't believe that picture tells the whole story. The end of a section blew over, it did not fail mid stream. Perhaps those are merely line posts. Perhaps stronger 'corner posts' are meant for every 100'.
I watched the videos of the excavators and dozers at work. The excavators are pulling stumps and roots out. Dozers are leveling behind the stump holes. I've seen USN Seabees work the same way. Incredibly more efficient than how public engineers would do it with all their surveying and strings and stakes.
I don't believe that picture tells the whole story. The end of a section blew over, it did not fail mid stream. Perhaps those are merely line posts. Perhaps stronger 'corner posts' are meant for every 100'.
That was the leading end of the wall and under construction when the high winds hit it.
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The section of wall was under construction at the time, with concrete anchors being put in place. But the strong winds blew the panels over onto the Mexican side of the border before the concrete had cured.
I watched the videos of the excavators and dozers at work. The excavators are pulling stumps and roots out. Dozers are leveling behind the stump holes. I've seen USN Seabees work the same way. Incredibly more efficient than how public engineers would do it with all their surveying and strings and stakes.
OK......
Where are the stumps?
Where are the trucks hauling away the stumps?
There are 40 excavators in approx. 100k sq. ft........and 6 dozers........and one truck dumping rock or gravel.
I'm sticking with my strong suspicion that this a show put on by the PLA. They've done similar things before and the world is watching Wuhan right now.
Randy..the picture is too localized and is probably from a youtube video or officially released drone footage.
In the early video I saw, they didn't haul anything off, there is a big debris pile they just pushed off to one side. The excavators pulled the stumps, roots and some piping out of the ground and wheel loaders and dozers pushed it all off to one side., the dozers leveled it, and the excavators moved right back over the ground with their boom working the buckets up and down packing down what the dozers had spread. Looked like a bunch of chickens pecking but evidently it worked. There's a lake right by the location, and they pushed some of it off into the marshy edges of the lake. The high rise buildings we see in the background of some of the pics and video are actually across a fairly large road or highway.
Click to show Click to show Usual protocol for any on-slab construction is to first push all the topsoil off and get down to some firmer substrate. The next thing I saw happening was they brought in geo testile they rolled out, then some big concrete booms nozzles and started covering the whole area except for a big trench they had dug for underground infrastructure which I assumed was drainage lines.
Was some of it for show? Probably but whether it was or not, it worked..the hospital is definitely there today and it wasn't 2 weeks ago.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-03-2020).]
Yes we could. Using the same prefab construction. Let’s go back to visit this in a year though. It will have been torn down and replaced by then.
Do you have it already in storage, filled with equipment and ready to be trucked to a location? They did.
I'm pretty sure, outside military mobile hospitals or hospital ships, we would be hard pressed to do this. I'd love to believe we can, but I haven't seen any indication we have these units all stored and stacked somewhere and ready to go..not 1000 bed facility anyway.
In a year, it may be abandoned in place, may not be, may be sanitized, disassembled & put back in storage. The one they built for SARS IF I understand correctly, was abandoned in place after 3 years.
One thing is for sure, it beats a bunch of tents and FEMA trailers. (for Patrick...."FEMA trailers" is a pretty derogatory or sarcastic reference to what our federal govt has sometimes done after a major hurricane hits. Crappy mobile homes, with formaldehyde contaminated interior walls and floors)
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-03-2020).]
Was some of it for show? Probably but whether it was or not, it worked..the hospital is definitely there today and it wasn't 2 weeks ago.
Don, I am absolutely not arguing that it's not there. Clearly something is.
The question is, WHAT is there, does it actually function as it appears and, as Hudini pointed out, how long will it be there.
The Chinese communist government, just like the old Soviets and the current North Koreans, will go to extremes to try to impress the west.
What most folks don't realize is that the Chinese can instantly mobilize almost their entire PLA for things like this and simply appropriate civilian equipment, materials and labor along with it.... and without recompense.
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Originally posted by maryjane:
I'm pretty sure, outside military mobile hospitals or hospital ships, we would be hard pressed to do this. I'd love to believe we can, but I haven't seen any indication we have these units all stored and stacked somewhere and ready to go..not 1000 bed facility anyway.
I don't think we need to.
Like every other commodity in a free market, capitalist economy, we have an overabundance. That includes hospitals and clinics.
The United States presently has 6,146 major and community (civilian) hospitals with approx. 924,107 beds. They admitted and treated over 36.3 MILLION patients last year.
By contrast, the Chinese government CLAIMS to have over 33,000 hospitals (2018 data), but my personal experience in talking with Chinese medical professionals at trade shows indicates that number is VASTLY exaggerated and the actual number of available beds is also astonishingly low compared to the United States.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 02-03-2020).]
Environmental surveys and permitting would take a while to complete in the UIS. Not to mention the potential acquisition of the necessary property via eminent domain and the associated court tie ups.
I see there's a discussion here... couple of comments to make:
The Digging / Pictures:
The stumps appear to have already been removed from a prior picture. I'm sure it was needed; however, I'm inclined to believe this set of events (the 1000 diggers and bull-dozers) are all for show at this point. It's China trying to prove what it can do. We *know* unequivocally that this is what Communist regimes do. It's all about propaganda, and we know China is heavy with propaganda. Anyone remember when the state-run TV showed dog-fighting scenes from Top Gun to show what their new fighter-jet was capable of? (the fighter jet design that they stole from us, that is...)
China's Ability to Do:
China is an authoritarian regime. Communism can always succeed in getting things done quickly because it's through forceful coercion. China's form of Communism is especially conducive because they've given the people a taste of Capitalism which makes them believe the party is wholly responsible for everything they have... when in reality, it's that same party system that's probably held them back multiple decades (they've only recently gone through their industrial revolution which we went through over 100 years ago).
Doesn't mean it's right though... and I know that no one here is advocating for Communism, but the reason for that wall going down has a lot more to do with the fact that Democrats are doing anything they can to stop the Republicans from halting illegal immigration. And, as such, they still have to use those old shitty bollard walls (sp?) because there's no room in the budget to do anything else. If both Democrats and Republicans were totally on board with stopping illegal immigration, guarantee to you that wall would be the smoothest concrete you've ever seen in your life, complete with cameras every 100 feet, laser penetration detection systems, facial recognition systems, and rapid deployment vehicles ready to go at every entrance.
US and others Can ButThere is No reason to Build a "Hospital" in the US or many other places. That was just a PR trick by CCP that lied and still lies to everyone and MSM and Corrupt WHO still believe them... Worse, they push same knowing everything China says is a lie.
Even when you completely Ignore the 2 USNS Hospital Ships... Army CoE, State's Nat Guard, and others have Converted Javits Center, AC Con Center, etc. in 2-3 Days to a week Each depending how big. And still converting other venues in many places. Plus US Mil and others have "Blow up building" and related to make structures on any clear areas when needed like ones used in Central Park in NYC.
"Air Buildings" are not New. US Mil and others have them for 30+ years in several formats and only got better version in CenPark.
Good thing Philly had Temple Field House and other buildings to convert them.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
US and others Can ButThere is No reason to Build a "Hospital" in the US or many other places. That was just a PR trick by CCP that lied and still lies to everyone and MSM and Corrupt WHO still believe them... Worse, they push same knowing everything China says is a lie.
Even when you completely Ignore the 2 USNS Hospital Ships... Army CoE, State's Nat Guard, and others have Converted Javits Center, AC Con Center, etc. in 2-3 Days to a week Each depending how big. And still converting other venues in many places. Plus US Mil and others have "Blow up building" and related to make structures on any clear areas when needed like ones used in Central Park in NYC.
"Air Buildings" are not New. US Mil and others have them for 30+ years in several formats and only got better version in CenPark.
Good thing Philly had Temple Field House and other buildings to convert them.
That's a good point Ogre. China doesn't have the existing infrastructure, and they certainly don't have the naval hardware like the United States does. We've got... what? 11 commissioned air craft carriers? And I think another 3 in the works? China has 2 air craft carriers. Their primary is an old ski-jump design that was built off an old renovated 1970s Russian hull. Their second one is called Shagdong or some stupid name, and it's basically the same **** ... ski jump. It's been in trials, fitting, fixing, and all that jazz for something like 3 years now, and still hasn't been readied for use yet.
There does remain to be said though, do we need 11 air craft carriers, and, can we even afford them? I think they're awesome... but what do I know?
Maybe but, we don't work under the same rules. OSHA, EPA, Labor Unions and all the other stuff we have rules/regulations/contracts effects what and how we do things. Stuff China doesn't have to deal with. Don is also correct in asking if we already have such structures ready to go. I guess we could use CONEXs but build a hospital in two weeks, that would require suspension of a lot of rules and materials and labor to be available. Basically, this isn't China so, I'm skeptical it would get done like it was done in China. But, to be honest, I really don't wish to see that challenge. If our population would just do as they are being asked, the virus will die out due to a lack of potential victims. Then, we could all go back to what we call normal life.
Rams
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 04-09-2020).]
I guess we could use CONEXs but build a hospital in two weeks, that would require suspension of a lot of rules and materials and labor to be available.
Rams
There is a company here that churns those things out by the thousands, not only for storage, but as portable office buildings. They have a very efficient operation. I have been there many times over the years bringing them materials when I drove a lumber truck. Later, when I was the safety director for a flatbed company, we hauled the finished product all across the country.
Originally posted by williegoat: There is a company here that churns those things out by the thousands, not only for storage, but as portable office buildings.
Right now, just as the price of gasoline is down, so are the prices of shipping containers.
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 04-09-2020).]
Ok but probably because they want "new". The one I bought a few years ago was "wind and water tight". One can buy a "one use" container but they are much more expensive.
I find it odd that they are in demand in these times.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: That's a good point Ogre. China doesn't have the existing infrastructure, and they certainly don't have the naval hardware like the United States does. We've got... what? 11 commissioned air craft carriers? And I think another 3 in the works? China has 2 air craft carriers. Their primary is an old ski-jump design that was built off an old renovated 1970s Russian hull. Their second one is called Shagdong or some stupid name, and it's basically the same **** ... ski jump. It's been in trials, fitting, fixing, and all that jazz for something like 3 years now, and still hasn't been readied for use yet.
There does remain to be said though, do we need 11 air craft carriers, and, can we even afford them? I think they're awesome... but what do I know?
China has Hundreds to Thousands of building in big cities there that can be converted the same as Javits Center etc. They didn't want this to make the problem more easy to hide along w/ a PR/Propaganda stunt that "Western" MSM ate hook line & sinker.
You see how much we need everything the Navy has when China finally declares open war w/ US and others. "Cold War" didn't end when USSR collapsed years ago. Only moved most of it to China NK and some "Middle East" countries. Most forgets/ignore the Korean War didn't end too.
knowing everything China says is a lie.
