So many complete Idiots bought masks π· "to fight _____ virus" then use them so they are uselessβNo, not good as that because It gets Worse so will make it More likely to have what their are Terrified of.
Just in one trip alone in < 4 hours I saw: Guys w/ Beards w/ Masks. Multiple people putting on and taking off the same mask several times. When off hanging of anything or even crush to put in pockets etc. Several think can move mask down to rest on chin and leave it until "needed" again. π€‘ 1 guy gave the mask to GF/Wife/whatever... Why? To Go into a Port-a-Potty. π Then got worse because she Stacked the 2 used masks like maker did in the box... β οΈ
If you are not going to even the very basic research how to use them right and follow the rules Every Time then don't even try to think a mask will help you. Not even for simple dust masks for sanding whatever or sweeping a floor. This is a big reason that OSHA and Smart Companies require Training and Fitting to use them.
If you one of the leaches hording masks and other PPE or started to sell before Ebay et al cancelled the plan then suggest you cut your lose and give them to Hospitals and get someone to sign for proof you did before Cops, SWAT, Nat Guard or Feds come to search for your inventory. π π Amazon Ebay and likely others have already reported sellers to many local, state and "federal level" governments. Visa and other Card Processors and even stores can report or govmnts demand data for the hording of PPE too because most buy w/ Credit/Debit cards.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
For most people, a handkerchief works just as well as a mask. Except for the better niosh N-95s or better, & the little over the ears, rectangle shaped rubberband mask they hand out at hospital entrances is to protect others from YOUR respiratory droplets. There is a big difference between a mask and a respirator.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-21-2020).]
Originally posted by maryjane: There is a big difference between a mask and a respirator.
I group all as "Masks" here because very few even know the difference. The cheap Soft mask/respirator w/ "rubber band(s)" are not really one size fits all. Size and shape of head and matters as well as just how you use them. More so w/ small or large heads near or over mask design spec Because band(s) are too big or small and won't seal or break easy.
I have a box of them in my workshop that I bought from Harbor Freight a few years ago. I use them when I'm doing electrical work in the attic, and even when I'm going through my closet once a year to pull out clothes for donation, and do an annual thorough cleaning when I empty the entire closet and put everything back, and to see what fits and what doesn't.
I always get a kick out of it though when I see people wearing them backwards (blue side out). I don't suppose it makes too much of a difference, but you're pretty much defeating one layer of particulate filtration by doing that.
That pic also shows 2 common problems for just people in focus or not hidden... (And found another didn't get memo...) Likely others didn't bent the metal right but harder to see even zoom in to edit.
"Rebel" is not that. All kinds of colored often "reusable" masks are sold in China Japan and other countries. Look at pictures in China and Japan for last 10 to 20 years and see even Hello Kitty etc masks for Adult and Kids. IOW His Black mask is common and likely tame compared to many. How good is that and other at filtering "N-95" size crap? That is another story w/ many likely failing to meet US NIOSH N-95 or the EU P/FFP 2 or 3 ratings. Not just because made cheap to rip off users but made only to handle bigger crap like cheap "Dust masks" here.
Guys, Masks like Vacuum Filters have different ratings... Most vacuums for home, shop and commercial use handles most crap on/in whatever but used them to clean up the wrong things like a Toner Spill from a Laser Printer and the whole area is now coated w/ Toner. Even most vacuums claiming to have HEPA filter can't handle Toner and is why many in the IT world buys $200+ 3M "Toner Vac" make for this job.
I use many cheap masks when working w/ fiber glass insulation, sweeping, etc. so can throw them in trash when done plus they are light and doesn't heat up like most "Hard masks." But When working w/ Roundup, "Oil base" paint, sweeping garage floors, and worse, I have P-100 filters w/ and w/o Carbon to trap VOC problems. (Even N-95 to P100 filters alone can't trap gasses/fumes from paint etc.)
I wore several different kind of "masks" in the few years I worked in radioactive site remediation. It's one of the worst aspects of the whole job, having to breath thru them for hours on end, not to mention I had to shave each morning, which I detest.. I looked about like this on days where the levels and risk were low:
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-21-2020).]
Dean? Rebel without a clue sums him up precisely..He didn't know. He was an unsuspecting test subject and the first death from coronavirus in 1955, when it was still just a Fort Detrick (USAMRIID) deep state experimental bio-weapon that escaped but needed better testing. CIA covered up his death by crashing his Spyder and then placing his body in the wreckage. The guy in the concocted story that was supposedly driving the car that allegedly turned in front of Dean was actually a CIA operative and was part of the site sanitation event.
You can read all about it over on one of MeM's favorite websites..
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 03-21-2020).]
First: My local hospital has put out a call for anyone with commercial masks to donate them to the hospital since they have run out of PPE for the hospital. They are also looking for volunteers to sew masks at home out of fabric. They even have directions for how to do it. I have a few N-95 masks that my son gave me, but there are only 9 of them. It I needed them its probably too late and not enough of them to do much. So I will give them to the hospital.
Second: All masks are not the same. Here is a link to the different ratings:
First: My local hospital has put out a call for anyone with commercial masks to donate them to the hospital since they have run out of PPE for the hospital. They are also looking for volunteers to sew masks at home out of fabric. They even have directions for how to do it. I have a few N-95 masks that my son gave me, but there are only 9 of them. It I needed them its probably too late and not enough of them to do much. So I will give them to the hospital.
Second: All masks are not the same. Here is a link to the different ratings:
As I understand it, masks are not to protect you. They are to protect everyone FROM you. This is sneezing into your elbow or coughing into your coat. It's to keep micro droplets of your spittle from being inhaled or landing on surfaces to later be picked up. Don't poopoo all masks or people who wear one.
Thanks Mark. I really never considered this until you mentioned it!! But I believe I can do this once I obtain some of the material and I know right where to get all I need. In reference to the picture being a bit small, I found the PDF file of the same thing from RMC. https://www.regmedctr.org/w...0Filter%20Pocket.pdf
And here is the video they link to.
One of my older sisters is a very talented and experienced seamstress. Has at least 9 sewing machines and a "she shed' sewing shop with bolts and bolts of fabric of all kinds, and she is bored to death right now being stuck at home. I think this is something that is right down her alley as well for all her church and sewing club friends too.
Hudini, you are 100% correct, Masks of this type serve only to protect OTHERS from our droplets.
Laugh all ya want, but I'm always up for a challenge. I don't really need them, as I have some commercial disposable masks that do the same thing, but pouring rain here now and turned cold again so I may as well give it a try. The very first thing, instead of all that measuring, is to make a 1 off and pin or staple it together, then dis-assemble it and make a hard pattern.
Hudini, you are 100% correct, Masks of this type serve only to protect OTHERS from our droplets.
Laugh all ya want, but I'm always up for a challenge. I don't really need them, as I have some commercial disposable masks that do the same thing, but pouring rain here now and turned cold again so I may as well give it a try. The very first thing, instead of all that measuring, is to make a 1 off and pin or staple it together, then dis-assemble it and make a hard pattern.
I used to work in a plant that made foam for cosmetic, medical and other uses. We used small presses like Clicker Presses originally to cut the shapes of the foam we wanted. Things like donuts and triangles for cosmetic puffs pads and wedges. We would use a rule die to cut through the foam to a poly plate. Then we got an Atom press. This had a hydraulic head that moved sideways so you could sequentially cut across the whole web. It cut through the foam to a special belt and the belt was computer controlled just like the head was so that it would advance when it needed to to pattern the cuts for the best use of the web.
When they asked for seamstresses to make these masks for the hospital I immediately thought of the Atom press and using it with a rule die to cut the cloth. So I called and talked to the administrator in charge at the hospital and offered to put them in touch with the proper people to get this done. So hopefully they will get back with me on this and we can get it coordinated. We might even be able to get material cut by late afternoon on Monday. The dies we used were made over in Grand Rapids, MI, about an hour and a half away so it wouldn't take much to get the die made and ready for pickup to bring back to our area of the state. It would sure increase the capacity of the seamstresses for making these masks, if they didn't need to cut the material. The dies are usually pretty cheap. I would think a couple of hundred dollars would cover a basic die.
Originally posted by Hudini: As I understand it, masks are not to protect you. They are to protect everyone FROM you. This is sneezing into your elbow or coughing into your coat. It's to keep micro droplets of your spittle from being inhaled or landing on surfaces to later be picked up. Don't poopoo all masks or people who wear one.
Not really...
Any soft or hard mask w/ outlet valve is design to protect the wearer/user. Many soft masks have a plastic part on front that have this valve underneath. Example: all on this 3M page
Any w/o that then output air goes thru sides and the mask media again. "Surgical Masks" and some N95's are this second type so when wearer sneezes etc the mask contains most outlet air and whatever in it and stop most of that trying to fill a room.
People already positive for X should not use first type because all of the outlet valve I know of available to the public do nothing to keep crap in vs second type. Including All examples above plus North(Honeywell) 7700 and 3M "hard" half masks have outlet valve dump outlet air directly. Only diverts outlet air some so plastic can protect the valve.
Even then some to most N95 and higher masks might not work well for this... Example for a related issue try reading thru Honeywell "Ebola Protection Recommendations & FAQs" and other places.
quote
Click the link below for a list of Honeywell Safety Products personal protective equipment (PPE) for use in Ebola environments, consistent with CDC guidance.
Caution: None of our PPE has been certified or tested specifically for use in Ebola environments.
WTF here's the list we sell but nothing is certified or tested even after 6+ years of dealing w/ Ebolaβββ PDF of products is same.
Originally posted by Hudini: As I understand it, masks are not to protect you. They are to protect everyone FROM you. This is sneezing into your elbow or coughing into your coat. It's to keep micro droplets of your spittle from being inhaled or landing on surfaces to later be picked up. Don't poopoo all masks or people who wear one.
With contagious viruses true and not true. Some masks indeed keep the wearer safe. Such as what hospital workers might wear.
As mentioned, not all masks are created equal and are rated as such. I have a funny example. While in the oil field I used to mix additives in drilling mud. I needed a mask rated for particulates ... dust. While painting, we are requires to wear "masks" also. More a respirator. We had many who would wear particulate masks while painting and when I corrected one user, he removed his "mask" to discuss it with me and his nose hairs were blue (the color he was painting).
We also had SCBA masks (above water SCUBA masks) for poisonous gas situations. That is the time to get it right.
Live from WH now... Today Trump signed Orders so FBI and Local Law Enforcement can go after hoarders and price gougers of Mask, Other PPE and likely other things.
Note that's a fed Order but many states already have laws for this too and been after them. Likely Many people can now simple call 911 to report price gouging vendors.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-23-2020).]
I wouldn't want to tie up a 911 operator for a price gouging report.
In Texas: Anyone who has encountered price gouging during the coronavirus outbreak is asked to call the Office of the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Hotline toll-free at 1-800-621-0508.
As you say, most states have one but 16 states have no statutes against price gouging.
I saw a number to report it on a Federal level a couple days ago but don't know now where I saw it posted.
You would think with todays delivery services one could easily go elsewhere. Itβs not like you are out of fuel and the gas station wants double. I remember after Sandy Hook when ammo prices skyrocketed. You just didnβt buy. Same now as people try to resell ammo for stupid high prices. Just ignore them and let them eat it.
Gouging would be the sudden markup of any retail goods that didn't also involve an increase from the wholesaler.
I've recently seen this: (or another brand of the same thing)
be marked up 3-4-5X what it normally sells for, simply because it was in short supply. It still cost the retailer the same from his supplier, but the retailer decided to cash in on the increased demand, thus padding his profit margin considerably at the consumer's expense. That, is price gouging. IF, the item had suddenly cost more at the wholesale level, then the retailer is justified to increase the retail price accordingly, but that is not what has been happening. (I did NOT see this happen at Target...I just used their picture to illustrate item and usual price)
Originally posted by maryjane: I wouldn't want to tie up a 911 operator for a price gouging report.
In Texas: Anyone who has encountered price gouging during the coronavirus outbreak is asked to call the Office of the Attorney General's Consumer Protection Hotline toll-free at 1-800-621-0508.
As you say, most states have one but 16 states have no statutes against price gouging.
CLICK FOR FULL SIZE
I saw a number to report it on a Federal level a couple days ago but don't know now where I saw it posted.
You can report normal businesses filing a slow complaint for State AG etc but doesn't help for a-holes selling "on street" and so on. Even then Unless you provide your own proof the X businesses price gouge many States the law means nothing because State agencies are very slow to do anything normally and slower now.
[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 03-24-2020).]
Some of us drivers are being told we have to be wearing a mask (of some sort) to deliver, but our company policy is no masks provided by the company because they say it spreads germs more. At this point, I can't seem to find any masks for sale anywhere, so I will just use a shirt when needed and pretend it works somehow.
I'm just a truck driver caught in the middle, I really don't know which way is better, but I know I need a mask to do my job. There are arguments that make sense from both sides, I'm not a medical anything though...
I've got a couple at home, but I'm nowhere near there, like many truck drivers.
Fats, The Big Problem is Most people have no clue How to use any mask types. All of the problems above and more are very common.
Watch people at just about anyplace and you'll see many of the above examples and even worse. Even just watch local TV news and see people w/ masks pulled down etc.
Now add States and Feds now say use a mask but give little to nothing to help that issue. Example: SG Jerome Adams just today said: (short paraphrase version) Clean your hands before putting on any mask and don't screw w/ it. Yet few do this.
Many Businesses don't want to provide them even before this because of dealing w/ OHSA rules and Insurance. Sites now "demanding" mask use may find problems w/ OSHA later costing Big $ fines and lawsuits. Many didn't see or understand OSHA "banned" mask use in NYC after 9/11 for site workers and others... Many reason why that happened besides "everyone" claim the site was "safe."
"Simple Masks" can be anything but needs to follow same basic rules. Wash Hand and Face before putting on a Clean "mask." Don't fool with it when on. Only When done take it off and clean hands and "mask."
Better is reusable cloth "mask" sim to surgical mask etc w/ wire to bend over your nose. many DIY patterns that can search for.
In your case... Long driving x to y likely want to lose it driving... Just have extras and use a clean "mask" every stop. Short driving like UPS etc drivers leave mask on as much as possible then use a new "mask" after breaks.
Why? A bandana etc are easy to lose track what way last used. Even left tied the "mask" is on your neck or chest that gets dirty.
Keep spares in ziplock plastic and dirty in another container so you can't confuse them.
π€‘
This is a big reason that OSHA and Smart Companies require Training and Fitting to use them.
[img]https://images.fiero.nl/userimage s/MadMark/mask%202.jpg[/img]Here is the information on what the Hospital is doing to make their own masks.
