Don't forget that Proud Boys is headed by a proven federal informant. Oath Keepers was or is still headed by a retired/former federal agent. It was headed by one on Jan 6th in DC.
Plus Antifa is allowed (probably funded) by policing and governing bodies.
All so that we don't focus attention where it needs to be focused.
Its another set up. Biden administration already let it be known that are biggest threat is domestic terrorist. They will see to it that's what will happen. More buss loads of fake Trump supporters headed to DC
tali-ban are the nut-con of afgan they are NOT liberals in any way shape or form isis/dash is the same in their areas on the extreme right al-kiddies are the same god bothered rightwingers all the above nuts would be trumpers if they were here
personally I appose all of the above religious nuts and try not to support any of their ideas or ideals
Originally posted by randye: Nobody knows what the hell you said.
I think most people do understand as do you but they do not like to be on the same side/place as the moslems even as their rightwing godbothered plans are very near the same
so claim not to get my point as a defense
tali-ban and the trump supporting god bothered rightwing both fear progress and want to revert to some mythical past based on a book for goat herders different names for the god in different books of rules for godly goat herding but not real different long term the plans are very much the same more control and less fredom
"During a lengthy hearing Wednesday for the conspiracy case involving 18 members of the far-right extremist group Oath Keepers, U.S. District Judge Amit Mehta for the District of Columbia asked about the determinations prosecutors used to file a felony charge of “obstructing an official proceeding” of Congress."
“Essentially, what you said is, ‘Trust us,’?” Mehta said, "And that is a real problem when it comes to criminal statutes, to suggest, ‘We know it when we see it, and we’ll pick and choose when it is an appropriate exercise of prosecutorial discretion.’?”
Apparently THIS may be the source of Judge Mehta's problem:
1730. Protection Of Government Processes -- "Official Proceeding" Requirement -- 18 U.S.C. 1512
Congress limits the coverage of § 1512 to official proceedings. 18 U.S.C. § 1515(a)(1) defines "official proceeding" as: A.a proceeding before a judge or court of the United States, a United States magistrate, a bankruptcy judge, a judge of the United States Tax Court, a special trial judge of the Tax Court, a judge of the United States Claims Court, or a Federal grand jury; B.a proceeding before the Congress; or C.a proceeding before a Federal Government agency which is authorized by law; or D.a proceeding involving the business of insurance whose activities affect interstate commerce before any insurance regulatory official or agency or agent or examiner appointed by such official or agency to examine the affairs of any person engaged in the business of insurance whose activities affect interstate commerce.
This definition is in large part, a restatement of the judicial interpretation of the word "proceeding" in §§ 1503 and 1505. However the case law interpreting these provisions also required that the proceeding had to be pending. See this Manual at 1722 and 1727. 18 U.S.C. § 1512 does away with the pending proceeding requirement for judicial matters and matters within the jurisdiction of Congress and Federal agencies. In the words of § 1512, "an official proceeding need not be pending or about to be instituted at the time of the offense." 18 U.S.C. § 1512(e)(1). See United States v. Scaife, 749 F.2d 338 (6th Cir. 1984). See also United States v. Shively, 927 F.2d 804 (5th Cir. 1991).
The legal system needs to permit those subject to the law to regulate their conduct with certainty and to protect those subject to the law from arbitrary use of state power.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-17-2021).]
The first person detained by the DC Police turned out to be undercover FBI agent. What happened to all the chatter on facebook and twitter that this was going to be another massive insurrection that the DC Police, FBI,CIA, Secrete Service, and of course the mainstream media that had the whole (democrat) nation terrified. The fence went up, National Guard was on stand by, the Capital was empty and all for what? The not so intelligent agencies are not intelligent. Yet they claim victory because they scared everyone away with proactive stance. What a joke are government has become.
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Insurrection or sedition or even homicide as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Advocating overthrow of Government (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Threatening government officials of the United States (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 570 individuals], (<1.9 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (6.1 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.7 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 23 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 23 individuals, (<0.07 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-21-2021).]
Doesn't look like there will be any meat on this bone that the gov has picked as far as an insurrection.
Just a bunch of trespassers. I hope they each get millions for false imprisonment, IF there is any truth to stories of them still being held captive. For the record, I think what they did was incredibly stupid, but not as bad as blm and antifa who actually killed people and caused billions in damage. The idiot trespassers broke windows and a door, AND (God forbid) they interrupted a paint remodeling.
Just a bunch of trespassers. I hope they each get millions for false imprisonment, IF there is any truth to stories of them still being held captive. For the record, I think what they did was incredibly stupid, but not as bad as blm and antifa who actually killed people and caused billions in damage. The idiot trespassers broke windows and a door, AND (God forbid) they interrupted a paint remodeling.
Don't forget the security guard that was scared for his life and had to use deadly force to defend himself.
Don't forget the security guard that was scared for his life and had to use deadly force to defend himself.
Yes you are correct, an unarmed white woman was shot to death that day........ the only killing that happened that day BTW. I know this doesn't really matter in this case, BUT if this had happened in California, that officer would be facing some serious questions/charges for this type of use of force. Basically an Officer carried out a capital sentence "executed" a person for trespassing. Out here in the imperfect World of California, Police are required by law to have beyond a reasonable doubt that a person has the intent (actions like swinging a knife or shooting a gun), time (the person is in range to harm another) and tactics (weapon). Basically, California tried to stop Police shootings against unarmed people and causing some Police to be shot at BEFORE the Police can return fire.
In this post, we attempted to bring a balanced perspective to the shooting, applying the now-familiar constitutional standard that regulates the use of deadly force. The limited public information that exists raises serious questions about the propriety of Byrd’s decision to shoot, especially with regard to the assessment that Babbitt was an imminent threat. To belabor the obvious, though, we cannot definitively analyze a situation without the relevant facts, and there is a frustrating shortage of facts. But there are enough facts to conclude that even if Byrd violated Babbitt’s Fourth Amendment rights, it is highly unlikely that he could be ethically charged with, let alone convicted of, a crime.
Those conclusions, tentative as they are, assume that courts will apply the legal rules that usually apply to police shootings. Given the unique context present here, though, we would not be surprised if that turned out not to be the case.
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Insurrection or sedition or even homicide as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Advocating overthrow of Government (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Threatening government officials of the United States (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 570 individuals], (<1.9 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (6.1 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.7 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 23 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 23 individuals, (<0.07 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
Originally posted by williegoat: You are satisfied, nay gleeful that you now live in a country where trespassing is a crime punishable by death without due process.
Expect more excerpts from that long and recent article in "Lawfare." Especially if a few more voices join the conversation on this point. A "Rickady88GT", a "cvxjet", a "2.5" or an "82-T/A." Maybe, looking out along the right field line, a "Hudini."
You've taken up residence on this at a legal flophouse on Erroneous Lane.
Expect more excerpts from that long and recent article in "Lawfare." Especially if a few more voices join the conversation on this point. A "Rickady88GT", a "cvxjet", a "2.5" or an "82-T/A." Maybe, looking out along the right field line, a "Hudini."
You've taken up residence on this at a legal flophouse on Erroneous Lane.
After 8 months of investigating, Rinselberg, how many people have been prosecuted? After 185 people being charged with assault or impeding Law Enforcement SOMETHING would have to happen? This is purely a political stunt and nothing will come from prosecutions except politicians kicking a dead horse for political gain. BTW, this is exactly the type of animal abuse pita endorses.
Rinselberg, before you threaten to post more left wing wishful propaganda, take a gander at this list of facts and attempt to answer line by line..........sense you seem to like long articles AND rather than adding more long articles,...this one has been here for quite a while without a response from you other than you don't like it here.
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Insurrection or sedition or even homicide as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Advocating overthrow of Government (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY has been charged with Threatening government officials of the United States (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 570 individuals], (<1.9 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (6.1 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.7 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 23 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 23 individuals, (<0.07 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
After 8 months of investigating, Rinselberg, how many people have been prosecuted? After 185 people being charged with assault or impeding Law Enforcement SOMETHING would have to happen? This is purely a political stunt and nothing will come from prosecutions except politicians kicking a dead horse for political gain. BTW, this is exactly the type of animal abuse pita endorses.
He doesn't have the "intellectual horsepower" to understand that his new favorite Leftist opinionistas are plowing old ground.
The DOJ has already determined LAST MONTH that it will not be criminally prosecuting INCOMPETENT COWARD Michael Byrd.
His latest piece of propaganda trash is a long, pointless screed from THIS MONTH on why INCOMPETENT COWARD Michael Byrd probably won't be criminally prosecuted....
He just cannot comprehend that the CIVIL LAWSUIT against INCOMPETENT COWARD Michael Byrd DOESN'T hinge on the OPINIONS of his LEFTIST COMRADES.
quote
Originally posted by Rickady88GT:
Rinselberg, before you threaten to post more left wing wishful propaganda, take a gander at this list of facts and attempt to answer line by line..........sense you seem to like long articles AND rather than adding more long articles,...this one has been here for quite a while without a response from you other than you don't like it here.
YUP.
He has made it more than obvious that the BREAKING NEWS irritates the sh*t out of him.
Leftists like him get very upset with facts.
Leftists like him are unable to control their own emotions.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-25-2021).]
He has made it more than obvious that the BREAKING NEWS irritates the sh*t out of him.
Leftists like him get very upset with facts.
Leftists like him are unable to control their own emotions.
You know, I would actually be ok with a person who can't control emotions as long as they can still convey cognitive, rational thought through factual debate rather than obvious regurgitated thoughtless propaganda. In this thread Rinselberg has yet to display facts about the trespassers OR trespassing without leftist propaganda. He has been TOTALLY VOID of his own words without being diluted with propaganda AND HE ADMITS TO SUCH. His latest threats of posting LONG propaganda articles if I respond is evidence that he can't think and post his OWN THOUGHTS INTO WORDS. He lives on PFF Off Topic solely to repost other people's propaganda.
The reason that I posted this article is to address one specific point that has come up in this thread, and it's not about the "narrative that the Capitol protest was a 'deadly insurrection.'"
Did Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd summarily impose capital punishment on a mere "trespasser" when fired the round that ultimately proved fatal to Ashli Babbitt?
The fact that the media has reported, some months after January 6, that the FBI has concluded that what happened on January 6 was not an Insurrection, is of no relevance whatsoever in judging the action of Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd. What is relevant is what Lt. Byrd could have been expected to know and understand, before and then at the very moment when he fired the round that killed Ashli Babbitt.
The FBI has not released any public statement about whether the events of January 6 were or were not an Insurrection. The media reported what they describe as the conclusions of sources with inside knowledge of the FBI's investigation(s)--but there's been no official statement on this from the FBI. I do not discredit what the media has reported on this point, but be aware that the FBI itself has not gone on public record with any statement or finding about whether or not the events of January 6 were an "Insurrection."
I also recommend this, from the U.S. Department of Justice--and it's brief. Just a few paragraphs.
It's not the first time that I've posted this, from the U.S. DOJ, in this long and winding forum thread, but it bears repeating, because the idea that Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd "executed" or passed summary capital punishment on a mere "trespasser" when he shot and killed Ashli Babbitt keeps bobbing to the surface in this discussion, like the bloated corpse of a dead fish floating to the surface of an algae-infested freshwater lake.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-25-2021).]
Rick would be doing himself a favor to look at the article that I posted--this one:
I didn't read anything past this point. Just being honest. But it sounds like you reposted a previously posted post. So before we go down this route, I will ask you to address the "braking news" post before we move on. It is also VERY IMPORTANT to note that trespassing while unarmed is not a capital crime, and a badge is not a Judge, Jury or Executioner.
The only thing that I repeated or reposted was the link to an April press release from the U.S. DOJ about their closing their investigation of the officer's use of deadly force against Ashli Babbitt.
"The narrative that the Capitol protest was a 'deadly insurrection' is falling apart." That's the title of this thread. What does that even mean? The "narrative"?
Certainly, no group or no individual has been indicted--to date--on the literal and legally exacting charge of "Sedition" or "Insurrection." Putting aside the second impeachment of President Trump, when he was charged by vote of the U.S. House of Representatives with "incitement to Insurrection", if memory serves me.
The "narrative" is not dead. Nancy P's "Select House Committee To Investigate January 6" has just issued subpoenas for the testimony of Steve Bannon, Dan Scavino, Kashyap or "Kash" Patel and Mark Meadows.
Rick and others here may think that the "narrative" should be dead, but in reality, it isn't dead. Not yet. And it won't breathe its dying breath anytime soon.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-25-2021).]
Certainly, no group or no individual has been indicted--to date--on the literal and legally exacting charge of "Sedition" or "Insurrection." Putting aside the second impeachment of President Trump, when he was charged by vote of the U.S. House of Representatives with "incitement to Insurrection", if memory serves me.
So, Trump was impeached for causing something that didn't happen.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
The "narrative" is not dead. Nancy P's "Select House Committee To Investigate January 6" has just issued subpoenas for the testimony of Steve Bannon, Dan Scavino, Kashyap or "Kash" Patel and Mark Meadows.
Rick and others here may think that the "narrative" should be dead, but in reality, it isn't dead. Not yet. And it won't breathe its dying breath anytime soon.
Rick and others here may think that the "narrative" should be dead, but in reality, it isn't dead. Not yet. And it won't breathe its dying breath anytime soon.
I will speak for myself using my own words. Others may have a different opinion than mine, so I can't claim to speak for them. I never believed in the "narrative" that you do. First and foremost, I do not believe Trump encouraged anyone to riot. Second I don't believe those people are all actually Trump supporters, there are "plants" in the group possibly antifa. Third I don't believe they even attempted to take anything over. There was no insurrection and no overthrow attempt. There was an attempt to disrupt Congress, it failed There was a small riot, it was dispersed in a few hours There was some property damage, something less than 2 million dollars There were some crimes committed that day and some of the people will be punished There were no reports of guns being recovered from the trespassers. Actually I don't remember seeing reports of ANY weapons recovered from the trespassers? There was some Police misconduct that day included a homicide AND THERE WAS TRESPASSING THAT DAY. For which the punishment is not DEATH.
So, as far as a "narrative" goes? I don't believe that your interpretation is valid as fact. I do agree with your assertion (if it is your words and not just another copy past oped) that this narrative of yours will not go away any time soon. It is the proverbial "tell a lie enough and people will believe it as fact". And it is so politically charged that people aren't even interested in the truth or facts, they have made up there minds and moved on to the next story. The very same week after the Jan6 trespassing, Republicans have already been saying this will be a democratic campaign story for 2024. It is living up to that expectation even though it is a false narrative.
It's instructive to note that this is the same delusional mentality that desperately and pathetically clung to the "Trump - Russia Collusion" narrative even as it was systematically debunked and destroyed.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 09-25-2021).]
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