Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Trespassing is not a capital crime
That can only be a reference to Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd, and the late Ashli Babbitt. I don't see any other way to interpret it.
It's a canard.
We are not looking at someone in the person of Ashli Babbitt who was put on trial, judged guilty and given the sentence of death by execution. That would be capital punishment for a capital crime. This is about a Capitol crime.
Lt. Byrd's purpose in shooting Ashli Babbitt was to stop her from enlarging on the crimes that she had already committed. And what crimes were those? More than just "trespassing." She became part of a group that had forced their way inside of the Capitol Building when it was not open to the public. A group that had battered their way inside the Capitol Building by overcoming the Capitol Police in a series of violent assaults, using their fists and feet and a variety of improvised weapons and chemical irritants from spray cans. A group that had smashed through glass windows and forced open locked doorways to get inside the Capitol Building.
At the moment that Ashli Babbitt was fired upon by Lt. Byrd, she was trying to pass through an interior doorway that was being defended by the Capitol Police.
Is it reasonable to think, given the circumstances, that the Capitol Police were being nothing more than capricious, or overbearing towards the public, in trying to block members of the public--Ashli Babbitt in particular--from getting past that doorway? Really?
This Read-o-Meters at a hefty 20 minutes for a careful read from end to end, but I don't think anyone needs to read the article all the way to the end to get the sense of it. See how it starts. Let your eyes scroll hurriedly through the text and see if you come to parts that you want to read more closely.
And what crimes were those? More than just "trespassing."
She became part of a group that had forced their way inside of the Capitol Building when it was not open to the public.
This is trespassing.
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A group that had battered their way inside the Capitol Building by overcoming the Capitol Police in a series of violent assaults, using their fists and feet and a variety of improvised weapons and chemical irritants from spray cans. A group that had smashed through glass windows and forced open locked doorways to get inside the Capitol Building.
Where is the evidence that Babbit committed any of the assaults or destruction that you described? There is video evidence that the police moved barricades and allowed entry.
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At the moment that Ashli Babbitt was fired upon by Lt. Byrd, she was trying to pass through an interior doorway that was being defended by the Capitol Police.
This is trespassing.
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Is it reasonable to think, given the circumstances, that the Capitol Police were being nothing more than capricious, or overbearing towards the public, in trying to block members of the public--Ashli Babbitt in particular--from getting past that doorway?
Byrd aimed and pulled the trigger. His intention was to kill Babbit. He is a murderer. The police are not allowed to kill someone simply because they are part of a group that has trespassed. I find it difficult to believe that you, or anyone, in good conscience deny any of that.
Byrd aimed and pulled the trigger. His intention was to kill Babbit. He is a murderer. The police are not allowed to kill someone simply because they are part of a group that has trespassed. I find it difficult to believe that you, or anyone, in good conscience deny any of that.
Like a good many other things that he has been, and remains, WRONG about, he is obsessively wedded to the ignorant and fallacious idea that INCOMPETENT COWARD Michael Byrd was somehow justified in murdering Ashli Babbitt for the act of TRESSPASSING.
Moreover, INCOMPETENT COWARD Michael Byrd WAS NOT engaged in the act of openly guarding a doorway.
The video clearly shows that he was hiding in a cloakroom just beyond the doorway to the Speakers Lobby and murdered Ms. Babbitt WITHOUT WARNING from his hiding place.
The simple fact remains that of all the firearms carried by all of the hundreds of police that day ONLY ONE BULLET WAS FIRED and it came from the gun of an INCOMPETENT COWARD with A DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF MISHANDLING HIS WEAPON.
The CIVIL TRIAL of INCOMPETENT COWARD Michael Byrd for the WRONGFUL DEATH of Ashli Babbitt will proceed.
..........................................
Additionally, he keeps harping about a bullshit propaganda article from a gaggle of Leftists that somehow have the delusional idea that the LAW is somehow "warfare" and thus the incredibly moronic name "Lawfare".
You don't have to read very far into that pile of insipid Leftist crap before you hit THIS "NUGGET":
"We now know that there were eight separate breaches in the Capitol, and that some of those breaches involved insurrectionists armed with firearms,..."
If you have to resort to HYPERBOLE AND LIES to support your thesis, you don't have a valid argument and you're nothing more than A PROPAGANDIST
To add to this long festering boil of another one of his stupid positions we are confronted with yet ANOTHER article or book that HE DIDN'T READ but keeps hooting about as his "definitive" support for his ignorant postulations.
IF he had actually read, and understood, the article in it's entirety this part at the very end would have been inescapable...but he didn't:
"The limited public information that exists raises serious questions about the propriety of Byrd’s decision to shoot, especially with regard to the assessment that Babbitt was an imminent threat.
To belabor the obvious, though, we cannot definitively analyze a situation without the relevant facts, and there is a frustrating shortage of facts."
But, Leftists gotta Leftist....and in their world opinions win over facts.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-02-2021).]
That can only be a reference to Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd, and the late Ashli Babbitt. I don't see any other way to interpret it.
Yes I referenced the capital execution of a trespasser, by a Capital Officer.
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It's a canard.
We are not looking at someone in the person of Ashli Babbitt who was put on trial, judged guilty and given the sentence of death by execution. That would be capital punishment for a capital crime. This is about a Capitol crime.
If this shooting had happened in California with our current laws, this would have put Byrd on trial for manslaughter at minimum. She was unarmed and posed no threat of great bodily harm or death to anyone at the time of her execution. As far as I know, the entire time she was there she wasn't armed, vandalizing or threatening anyone. This killing was a travesty and a miscarriage of justice. It will be remembered long after the trespassing is forgotten. All it will take is the lies of the left to be drowned out by the truth.
Originally posted by williegoat: Byrd aimed and pulled the trigger. His intention was to kill Babbit. He is a murderer. The police are not allowed to kill someone simply because they are part of a group that has trespassed. I find it difficult to believe that you, or anyone, in good conscience deny any of that.
Believe this:
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Importantly, the Graham court held that the reasonableness of force requires looking at the facts not as they actually were, but as they would have appeared to “a reasonable officer on the scene.” As courts have made clear, this standard allows for mistaken perceptions and conclusions so long as all such errors were reasonable. For example, if an individual is stabbing at officers with a shiny, rigid object that a reasonable officer would believe is a knife, then the courts will assess the reasonableness of the officer’s actions as if the object were a knife even if it later turns out to have been a harmless rubber toy.
In assessing what a reasonable officer would have been aware of, it’s important to keep in mind that use-of-force situations can be chaotic. As the Supreme Court described it, “[O]fficers are often forced to make split-second judgments [] in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving.” This description isn’t always accurate—indeed, as one of us has written elsewhere, this description is “simply wrong almost all the time”—but it seems generally apt in this case.
When this song was released, I was 12 years old and living in Orlando Florida. A few months later, I was living just outside the Beltway. LBJ was keeping Ol' Joe's chair warm for him and the world was a very different place, but in some ways very much the same as it is now.
What a field day for the heat A thousand people in the street Singing songs and they carrying signs Mostly say, "Hooray for our side"
Importantly, the Graham court held that the reasonableness of force requires looking at the facts not as they actually were, but as they would have appeared to “a reasonable officer on the scene.” As courts have made clear, this standard allows for mistaken perceptions and conclusions so long as all such errors were reasonable. For example, if an individual is stabbing at officers with a shiny, rigid object that a reasonable officer would believe is a knife, then the courts will assess the reasonableness of the officer’s actions as if the object were a knife even if it later turns out to have been a harmless rubber toy.
In assessing what a reasonable officer would have been aware of, it’s important to keep in mind that use-of-force situations can be chaotic. As the Supreme Court described it, “[O]fficers are often forced to make split-second judgments [] in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving.” This description isn’t always accurate—indeed, as one of us has written elsewhere, this description is “simply wrong almost all the time”—but it seems generally apt in this case.
If for no other reason (and there are other reasons), Byrd's defense falls apart based on the words that I underlined.
[This message has been edited by williegoat (edited 11-02-2021).]
(Judge) Lamberth has now ordered the release of one of the detainees, Christopher Worrell — that man whose rights the judge had already said were violated. In addition to the issue with Worrell’s hand, he needs treatment for cancer. Lamberth said he had “zero confidence that the D.C. jail would give him the treatment needed and would “not retaliate” against him.
The D.C. Department of Corrections staff were “antagonizing detainees” and “directing detainees to not cooperate with” U.S. Marshals during the inspection, the agency said, and “one DOC staffer was observed telling a detainee to ‘stop snitching.’”
Just as a reminder, Leftist members of Congress actually helped fund the bail money and defense costs for ANTIFA / BLM rioters during the summer of 2020
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 11-07-2021).]
That can only be a reference to Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd, and the late Ashli Babbitt. I don't see any other way to interpret it.
Yes I referenced the capital execution of a trespasser, by a Capital Officer.
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It's a canard.
We are not looking at someone in the person of Ashli Babbitt who was put on trial, judged guilty and given the sentence of death by execution. That would be capital punishment for a capital crime. This is about a Capitol crime.
If this shooting had happened in California with our current laws, this would have put Byrd on trial for manslaughter at minimum. She was unarmed and posed no threat of great bodily harm or death to anyone at the time of her execution. As far as I know, the entire time she was there she wasn't armed, vandalizing or threatening anyone. This killing was a travesty and a miscarriage of justice. It will be remembered long after the trespassing is forgotten. All it will take is the lies of the left to be drowned out by the truth.
No charges will ever be filed against Lt Byrd. He had the perfect defense.
In his first interview since the shooting took place, Byrd said that he feared for his life as hoards of rioters stormed the Capitol and breached the area where members of the House of Representatives were located.
“I was very afraid,” Byrd said. “I'm hearing about the breaches of different barricaded areas, officers being overrun, officers being down.”. And that, is all he had to say.
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The focus of the criminal investigation was to determine whether federal prosecutors could prove that the officer violated any federal laws, concentrating on the possible application of 18 U.S.C. § 242, a federal criminal civil rights statute. In order to establish a violation of this statute, prosecutors must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the officer acted willfully to deprive Ms. Babbitt of a right protected by the Constitution or other law, here the Fourth Amendment right not to be subjected to an unreasonable seizure. Prosecutors would have to prove not only that the officer used force that was constitutionally unreasonable, but that the officer did so “willfully,” which the Supreme Court has interpreted to mean that the officer acted with a bad purpose to disregard the law. As this requirement has been interpreted by the courts, evidence that an officer acted out of fear, mistake, panic, misperception, negligence, or even poor judgment cannot establish the high level of intent required under Section 242.
We've had this 'ah feared for mah life' conversation before so no need rehashing it, but there it is, again..
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 11-07-2021).]
No charges will ever be filed against Lt Byrd. He had the perfect defense.
In his first interview since the shooting took place, Byrd said that he feared for his life as hoards of rioters stormed the Capitol and breached the area where members of the House of Representatives were located.
“I was very afraid,” Byrd said. “I'm hearing about the breaches of different barricaded areas, officers being overrun, officers being down.”. And that, is all he had to say. We've had this 'ah feared for mah life' conversation before so no need rehashing it, but there it is, again..
California changed the parameters of this defense. It is not a perfect defense. The law now requires more than just fear, and for a matter of fact, has been so for many years. If this Capital shooting had happened in California, he would be in custody awaiting trial.
Byrd's defense in that interview would have been more credible if he had said that he feared for his life because of hordes of rioters . . .
Sieg Spelling!
If I had heard him holler that he was harassed and harangued by herds of homely whores, I might have had some heartfelt sympathy. However I hardly have any hope of that.
How many does it take to make a horde any way? Genghis Khan had one, multiple hordes actually. The Red Chinese had hordes in the Korean War. Mosquitos come in hordes. Hordes of NVA over ran a SF camp Nam Dong near Laos in '64. Isis hordes took over Mosul Iraq in 2014. Hordes of sharks have shown up off of Aussie beaches..
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH INSURRECTION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2383) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH SEDITION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2384) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH ADVOCATING OVERTHROW OF GOVERNMENT (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH THREATENING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OF THE UNITED STATES (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH TERRORISM (18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 113B § 2331) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH RIOT (18 U.S. Code § 2101) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 570 individuals], (<1.9 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (6.1 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.7 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 23 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 570 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges.
As of today only 23 individuals, (<0.07 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
"Subpoenas for your testimony, MAGA World boys and girls. Or should I just say 'girl' ? From the House Congressional Committee investigating January 6."
"Deadly" or just "injurious", the narrative that the Capitol protest was an "insurrection" has not fallen apart in all quarters. Not yet. There is still a ways ahead for it to keep being news in the news or news-like media venues that most here (it would seem) remain blissfully unaware of. Where this is Breaking News.
"You're welcome."
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-09-2021).]
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH INSURRECTION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2383) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH SEDITION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2384) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH ADVOCATING OVERTHROW OF GOVERNMENT (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH THREATENING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OF THE UNITED STATES (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH TERRORISM (18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 113B § 2331) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH RIOT (18 U.S. Code § 2101) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 625 individuals], (2.0 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (5.6 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.6 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 25 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges.
As of today only 25 individuals, (<0.08 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
An Indiana man charged with carrying a loaded firearm to the Capitol on Jan. 6 told investigators that if he had found Speaker Nancy Pelosi, “you’d be here for another reason,” according to court documents posted over the weekend.
Mark Mazza, 56, is the latest of about half a dozen Jan. 6 defendants charged with bringing a gun to the Capitol. In this case, Mazza allegedly carried a Taurus revolver known as “The Judge,” which is capable of firing shotgun shells — two of which were in the chamber, along with three hollow-point bullets. A Capitol Police sergeant obtained the weapon after allegedly fending off an assault from Mazza.
According to the charging documents in the case, two Capitol Police investigators visited Mazza at his home in Shelbyville, Ind., on March 29, and he admitted attending the Jan. 6 “Stop the Steal” rally and later marched with the crowd to the Capitol. Camera footage shows Mazza present during the most intense hand-to-hand violence of the day in the Capitol’s lower West terrace tunnel. . . .
Though reports of rioters charged with carrying firearms have been limited, the number has been steadily climbing. A former DEA agent brandished his service weapon outside the Capitol. A Texas man was charged with bringing a handgun as well. Leaders of the Oath Keepers charged with conspiring to prevent Congress from certifying the 2020 election aren’t facing firearms charges, but prosecutors have pieced together evidence suggesting they kept a stockpile of weapons at a hotel in nearby Arlington, Va.
The mounting evidence has undercut claims by former President Donald Trump and his allies that the mob attacking the Capitol was unarmed. In addition to the growing number of firearms authorities suspect were carried onto Capitol grounds, rioters brought knives, axes, batons, tasers, bats, poles and even a crutch and hockey stick. Others stole police shields and used metal barricades and furniture as makeshift weapons. . . .
Mazza is facing charges of obstructing Congress and the FBI investigation of the Jan. 6 attack, as well as carrying a firearm on Capitol grounds and obstructing police, as well as a D.C. code violation for bringing an unlicensed firearm into the city. . . .
Here's the weapon that was confiscated from this defendant at the Capitol Building--confiscated by a Capitol Police officer, after the defendant got into a physical altercation with that officer: "Taurus Judge: A Revolver That Can Fire Shotgun Shells And .45 Colt" https://www.19fortyfive.com...-shells-and-45-colt/
I didn't get that from this report in Politico. I got it from another source, who opined that this Taurus "Judge" revolver defeats the purpose of the National Firearms Act's prohibition of "sawed-off shotguns." But that's just a sidebar in this context, and not something I'm jumping completely onboard with.
Taurus Judge I've looked at these before. The Shotgun shell is a good idea as it has limited penetration and would not go through a wall and hurt the kids next door. I wouldn't want to be shot with one but between the .410 bore shot shells and the .45 Colt cartridge at 20 feet I would rather get shot at with the shotgun shell.
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The .410 bore is one of the smallest caliber of shotgun shell commonly available A .410 bore shotgun loaded with shot shells is well suited for small game
But it can also fire a slug that is capable of taking down larger game.
Here's the weapon that was confiscated from this defendant at the Capitol Building--confiscated by a Capitol Police officer
Has it ever ONCE occurred to you that the stupid things that you think and believe are due to the stupid sources and people that you get your stupid opinions, propaganda and ideas from?
Here's the weapon that was confiscated from this defendant at the Capitol Building--confiscated by a Capitol Police officer, after the defendant got into a physical altercation with that officer: "Taurus Judge: A Revolver That Can Fire Shotgun Shells And .45 Colt" https://www.19fortyfive.com...-shells-and-45-colt/
I didn't get that from this report in Politico. I got it from another source, who opined that this Taurus "Judge" revolver defeats the purpose of the National Firearms Act's prohibition of "sawed-off shotguns." But that's just a sidebar in this context, and not something I'm jumping completely onboard with.
You had to know that was coming!
I have always wanted a Judge. I think it is a near ideal home defense gun. The 410 is practically worthless and out of range outside of the average household hallway. But for an anti-carjacking gun it is perfect. The judge has rifling in the barrel like a typical hand gun so shot pellet cluster spin at such a high RPM that they scatter in a VERY short distance and are rendered harmless in short distances. The Judge IS NOT a shotgun, a shotgun has a smooth boar barrel so it does not spin the shot pellets. The smooth boar keeps a tight pellet pattern, the EXACT opposite of the Judge. The Judge has a riffing for the .45 slug. The spinning stabilizes the slug for accuracy. The 410 shot shells barley kill snakes on hiking trails, infact that is what they are for, they are referred to as snake guns. 410 shotgun shells are dangerous BUT they are not man killers. The 410 shot shells have a VERY low level of "respect" in the gun world because they have such low power and range even in a proper shotgun. The reason I say the Judge is an ideal home defense gun is because of its low power and EXTREMELY short range. The shot shells cannot shoot through walls and harm your family who may be on the other side. The VAST MAJORITY of self defense shootings happen at very short range and that fits the Judge fine.
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 11-23-2021).]
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH INSURRECTION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2383) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH SEDITION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2384) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH ADVOCATING OVERTHROW OF GOVERNMENT (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH THREATENING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OF THE UNITED STATES (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH TERRORISM (18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 113B § 2331) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH RIOT (18 U.S. Code § 2101) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 625 individuals], (2.0 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (5.6 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.6 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 25 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges.
As of today only 25 individuals, (<0.08 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-06-2021).]
Keywords and phrases: Metadata, White House Communications Agency, Fifth Amendment
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No person . . . shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself . . .
The Fifth Amendment
These developments are closely related to the Original Topic.
Two of the potential witnesses for the January 6 "Inquisition" have announced their intention to invoke their Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination.
"Counsel for House panel indicates WH [White House] helped Jeff Clark draft incriminating letter to Ga. [Georgia election] officials" Charles Jay, in the Daily Kos; December 3, 2021. https://www.dailykos.com/st...to-send-Ga-officials
EXCERPT
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The chief investigative counsel for the House Select Committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol attack wants to ask Jeffrey Clark about White House involvement in the drafting of an incriminating letter that the former Trump DOJ official wanted to send to Georgia officials aimed at overturning the state’s presidential election results. . . .
The counsel then dropped this bombshell [sic]: “I also wanted to ask him [Jeffrey Clark] about metadata in that draft letter that indicates some involvement with the White House Communications Agency and the drafting or preparation of that letter.”
That indicates that the House committee has evidence indicating that Clark was not just acting on his own in drafting the letter, but was coordinating with officials at the White House in its preparation.
Jeffrey Clark is alleged to have played a key role in former President Trump’s efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in his favor, instead of Joe Biden's, when Clark was an attorney in the U.S. Department of Justice.
Another lawyer, John Eastman, has also said that he intends to plead the Fifth Amendment in response to a subpoena from the committee. Eastman wrote a memo with the dubious [sic] claim that the serving Vice President [Mike Pence] had constitutional authority to overturn the 2020 election. Unlike Jeffrey Clark, John Eastman was not part of the federal government or part of any state government.
"Rep. Bennie Thompson, chair of the January 6th Committee, told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow on Wednesday what it means that former Trump DOJ official Jeffery Clark says he plans to invoke the Fifth Amendment when he testifies.
"If he is saying, 'I'll come but I'll plead the Fifth,' in some instances that says you are part and parcel guilty to what occurred,"
So much for our foundational principles of presumption of innocence and not being forced to testify against yourself.....
Leftists really do hate that damn US CONSTITUTION getting in the way of their kangaroo court / propaganda festival.
[This message has been edited by randye (edited 12-05-2021).]
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH INSURRECTION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2383) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH SEDITION ( 18 U.S. Code § 2384) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH ADVOCATING OVERTHROW OF GOVERNMENT (18 U.S. Code § 2385) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH THREATENING GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS OF THE UNITED STATES (under 18 U.S.C. § 871 or 18 U.S. Code § 351 or 18 U.S. Code § 115 or any local statute) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH TERRORISM (18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 113B § 2331) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today, NOBODY HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH RIOT (18 U.S. Code § 2101) as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021
As of today only 625 individuals], (2.0 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 35 individuals, (<0.10 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 35 individuals, (5.6 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have been charged with "conspiracy".
As of today only 4 individuals, (0.6 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to "conspiracy".
As of today only 25 individuals, (4.0 %) out of the 625 people arrested as a result of the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of January 6, 2021 have pled guilty to any charges.
As of today only 25 individuals, (<0.08 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC have pled guilty to any charges
As of today only 17 individuals, (<0.05 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Oath Keepers" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 12 individuals, (<0.04 %) out of the >30,000 people attending the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC alleged to be members of the "Proud Boys" group have been charged with a crime.
As of today only 1 needless homicide happened at the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC and it was committed by a Demorat with a documented history of mishandling his firearm.
As of today 1 unopened LEGO toy has been seized by the Biden administration as "evidence of a conspiracy" related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
As of today the FBI has officially determined that THERE WAS NO INSURRECTION and that THERE WAS NO LARGE ORGANIZED CONSPIRACY BY ANY "RIGHT WING" GROUPS and that NEITHER FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP NOR ANY OF HIS ASSOCIATES OR ADVISORS WERE INVOLVED IN ANY PLANNING OF A RIOT OR VIOLENCE arising from the MOSTLY PEACEFUL events of the January 6, 2021 rally in DC.
As of today the Leftist Congress is trying to soak the American taxpayers for HALF A BILLION DOLLARS in "damages" after telling the DOJ and the federal courts that the capitol building sustained $1.5 million in damages.
As of today 6 Capitol police officers are facing disciplinary action for their actions related to the MOSTLY PEACEFUL January 6, 2021 rally in DC
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: So, you are saying that trespassing is not a capital crime and that murder charges should be levied.
The U.S. Department of Justice or USDOJ has already cleared Capitol Police Lt. Michael Byrd of any wrongdoing, in the context of his firing the round that killed Ashli Babbitt.
Do you expect that to be reversed? Do you expect the USDOJ to change its collective mind and bring a criminal indictment against Michael Byrd in this matter?
Do you expect that there will be any judgements--other than negative judgements or dismissals--in the civil court cases or lawsuits that are proceeding on behalf of the late Ashli Babbitt, seeking damages for her wrongful death, via judgements against Michael Byrd or against the Capitol Police Department?
I've seen video of the moment when Ashli Babbitt was shot. I don't see a "trespasser." I see someone posing a threat to the members of Congress and their staff--wherever any and all the members of Congress and their staff were located, physically, at that moment.
What would have happened if Ashli Babbitt got all the way through that window opening and got behind the doorway and beyond the entrance that Michael Byrd and the other Capitol Police officers were trying to blockade? She wasn't alone. She was part of a group--to use the most neutral term that comes to mind.
I say that could have changed the dynamics of the situation in a very dangerous way.
Maybe other members of the group follow suit, and start hoisting themselves up and passing through that same broken-out window opening in the doorway. Maybe Ashli Babbitt, now on the other side of that doorway, tries to open it and expedite the entrance of other members of this group. Maybe Michael Byrd and some of the other officers that were blocking off that doorway get into a physical altercation with Ashli Babbitt to subdue her, and by so doing, are disadvantaged in trying to resist any other members of the group that may have then decided to resume their efforts to force their way inside, beyond that doorway.
As a Capitol Police officer, Michael Byrd's highest priority was to protect the members of Congress and their staff.
As it stands now, the USDOJ, it would seem, sees it (collectively) in at least somewhat the same way as I do.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 12-06-2021).]
the capital invaders should be charged like any other group
with felony murder for the death of one of their number in the commission of the crime who killed the person [ a cop] matters not all the law requires is a death and a crime
and why those who tryed to lead an insurrection by rebelling against our laws are not charged with treason is pure BS political in nature
As a Capitol Police officer, Michael Byrd's highest priority was to protect the members of Congress and their staff.
As it stands now, the USDOJ, it would seem, sees it (collectively) in at least somewhat the same way as I do.
His priority was to shoot an unarmed woman? She was attempting to climb through a broken window, Byrd would most likely be helping save her life from glass cuts or handcuffed her if he had not killed her. He was not alone on his side of the door and she would easily have been detained if she had breached the door. This one unarmed woman was a threat to the lives of armed Officers? I do not doubt that you agree with killing an unarmed woman who was more of an immediate threat to herself by climbing through a broken glass window, than a threat to several armed Officers. From my understanding, the Government officials were never in any risk of bodily harm due to safe rooms and lockable doors. Byrd was quickly cleared because this was a political issue and he was black. Yes his skin color no doubt had played a part in the incident given the highly politicized racial tension in America. At a time when EVERY white Officer shooting black men was a national scandal while the Justice system and Law Enforcement system was on trial for being racist......a black Officer who shoots and kills an unarmed white woman who is not threat to anyone but herself at the time, would set back the agenda of white racist Officers hunting black men.
the capital invaders should be charged like any other group
with felony murder for the death of one of their number in the commission of the crime who killed the person [ a cop] matters not all the law requires is a death and a crime
and why those who tryed to lead an insurrection by rebelling against our laws are not charged with treason is pure BS political in nature
Seriously scary ideas man. Have you read the rest of the thread?
His priority was to shoot an unarmed woman? She was attempting to climb through a broken window, Byrd would most likely be helping save her life from glass cuts or handcuffed her if he had not killed her. He was not alone on his side of the door and she would easily have been detained if she had breached the door. This one unarmed woman was a threat to the lives of armed Officers? I do not doubt that you agree with killing an unarmed woman who was more of an immediate threat to herself by climbing through a broken glass window, than a threat to several armed Officers. From my understanding, the Government officials were never in any risk of bodily harm due to safe rooms and lockable doors. Byrd was quickly cleared because this was a political issue and he was black. Yes his skin color no doubt had played a part in the incident given the highly politicized racial tension in America. At a time when EVERY white Officer shooting black men was a national scandal while the Justice system and Law Enforcement system was on trial for being racist......a black Officer who shoots and kills an unarmed white woman who is not threat to anyone but herself at the time, would set back the agenda of white racist Officers hunting black men.
Ah..facts, details...but those can just be easily overlooked by some.
the capital invaders should be charged like any other group
with felony murder for the death of one of their number in the commission of the crime who killed the person [ a cop] matters not all the law requires is a death and a crime
and why those who tryed to lead an insurrection by rebelling against our laws are not charged with treason is pure BS political in nature
Then why are blm and antifa not charged with the same crimes. Example: Kyle Rittenhouse. People died trying to kill an innocent person who was targeted for political and social differences. How many of the rioters and looters that night were charged for the deaths? Let's make this easier for you, how many convicted felons illegally in possession of a firearm and illegally threatening the life of a minor with said illegal firearm, were charged for the illegal possession of a firearm and deaths committed during a hate crime?
[This message has been edited by Rickady88GT (edited 12-06-2021).]
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