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Ever heard of a solar sail? by 2.5
Started on: 04-06-2022 10:43 PM
Replies: 21 (313 views)
Last post by: rinselberg on 05-27-2022 02:46 PM
2.5
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Report this Post04-06-2022 10:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I think its pretty cool.

"Solar sail
Solar sails are a method of spacecraft propulsion using radiation pressure exerted by sunlight on large mirrors. A number of spaceflight missions to test solar propulsion and navigation have been proposed since the 1980s. The first spacecraft to make use of the technology was IKAROS, launched in 2010. A useful analogy to solar sailing may be a sailing boat; the light exerting a force on the mirrors is akin to a sail being blown by the wind. High-energy laser beams could be used as an alternative light source to exert much greater force than would be possible using sunlight, a concept known as beam sailing. Solar sail craft offer the possibility of low-cost operations combined with long operating lifetimes. Since they have few moving parts and use no propellant, they can potentially be used numerous times for delivery of payloads. Solar sails use a phenomenon that has a proven, measured effect on astrodynamics.Wikipedia"
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ls3mach
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Report this Post04-07-2022 03:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ls3machSend a Private Message to ls3machEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I had heard if it years ago. What I just read was more than I had any idea about. I honestly thought it was actual solar panels being used. Not mirrors.
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olejoedad
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Report this Post04-07-2022 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for olejoedadSend a Private Message to olejoedadEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its been in SciFi novels since the 60's.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post04-07-2022 11:44 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Wasn't there a problem with this due to space debris destroying the sails.
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2.5
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Report this Post04-07-2022 12:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 2.5Send a Private Message to 2.5Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:

Wasn't there a problem with this due to space debris destroying the sails.


I would think so.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post04-07-2022 12:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Debris would be a problem in orbit around Earth- we keep slinging junk up there...and never cleaning up (Space janitor, anyone?) Outside of Earth's orbit it would not be as much a problem (The old TV shows/movies where they are constantly running into "Meteor Storms!!!" is basically BS)(Yes there is debris in space- but space is B-I-G...)

I remember two novels that had Solar sails; A) The original "Planet of the Apes" BOOK (At the beginning two (Civilized) apes are sailing in space and find some info that (Basically) tells the tale...

B) A Larry Niven- Jerry Pournelle novel, "The Mote in God's Eye" where aliens send a space ship to Earth via Sail and Laser beam.
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Jake_Dragon
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Report this Post04-07-2022 02:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Jake_DragonSend a Private Message to Jake_DragonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Its not the size of the debris. its the motion even the smallest debris travelling at crazy fast velocity has the potential to create a lot of damage.

The more we know, the more we don't know. I hope the write it all down somewhere safe.
Each day the earth gets smaller and smaller. IF we can stop killing each other long enough.
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rinselberg
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Report this Post04-08-2022 11:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Solar Cruiser is a NASA mission, currently projected to launch in 2025, to station a satellite in orbit around the sun. The Solar Cruiser satellite's solar sail will unfold to create a sunlight-propelled surface area of more than 6 standard-sized tennis courts combined. When launched it will become the largest solar sail ever used to propel a spacecraft.

~ Planetary Society.


There's a few paragraphs describing the Solar Cruiser spacecraft and mission at Gunter's Space Page (where else?) with two photo-like depictions of the spacecraft.
https://space.skyrocket.de/...at/solar-cruiser.htm

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-08-2022).]

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TheDigitalAlchemist
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Report this Post04-08-2022 11:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for TheDigitalAlchemistClick Here to visit TheDigitalAlchemist's HomePageSend a Private Message to TheDigitalAlchemistEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
If still a viable concept, future ships would have several redundant ones tucked away, and they would be self-repairing.
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cvxjet
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Report this Post04-08-2022 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for cvxjetSend a Private Message to cvxjetEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Being a complete smart-azz.....here is a sailing ship in space....



And here is a simulation of what a real Solar Sail would look like....

[This message has been edited by cvxjet (edited 04-08-2022).]

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rinselberg
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Report this Post04-08-2022 04:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
NASA Solar Cruiser (scroll back a short ways) is "out there", but the Breakthrough Starshot initiative is really, really "out there". It's an idea to propel very small instrumented space probes all the way to the nearest star, about 4 light years distant from Earth, using sail technology. Not solar sail, but laser sail.

"Lightsail technology 'billows' into the future"
Samantha Hill for Astronomy; March 17, 2022.
https://astronomy.com/news/...lows-into-the-future

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-08-2022).]

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rinselberg
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Report this Post04-09-2022 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The aforementioned NASA Solar Cruiser mission, currently expected to launch in 2025, has a solar sail that unfolds to almost 1600 square meters.

A previous NASA Project, dubbed "Sunjammer", was planned with a solar sail of 1200 square meters. But that project was canceled in 2014, after more than a 4-year effort and $21 million in expenditures by the famed space agency, that aimed to combine the thrills of America's Cup-style yachting with the chills of interplanetary space. Henceforth, this memorable alliteration in the form of a banner for a news report; to wit:

"NASA Nixes Sunjammer Mission, Cites Integration, Schedule Risk"
Dan Leone for SPACENEWS; October 17, 2014.
https://spacenews.com/42227...ation-schedule-risk/

Sunjammer —a "catchy" and rather poetic name for a NASA space mission. The aborted ancestor to Solar Cruiser, which some may consider a "kitschy" moniker, in comparison.

Long live Sunjammer!

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 04-09-2022).]

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Valkrie9
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Report this Post04-09-2022 06:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

!
Suggestions for curious minds, the pff bot.

!
Mistaken for Linda Carter, she is Madeline Smith.
Pin-ups on Pedals
!
Having a few proposals for solar powered propulsion systems, let us first power our planet to store the power to drive the solar sails by concentrated particle beams, lasers, masers, rays.
Space and time, relatively speaking, is curved by gravity, which is difficult to comprehend for three dimensional viewers.
The vastness of our universe then precludes the conventional gas propelled rockets for exploration, approaching C, the velocity required distorting time.
A few hundred years of growing maturity needed to evolve into a peaceful, curious species before our guardian angels allow us to travel beyond our star system in search of our maker, a quest for the Grail.
' Answer these questions three... '
!
Orbiting Solar Power Mirrors
Mirror Arrays Orbiting to Provide Light and Power on the Dark side of our Planet
Japan's plan to orbit solar arrays for perpetual power.


' She can't make warp speed 9, Captain Kirk, we just don't have the power ! '
~ Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott, Star Ship Enterprise
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Report this Post04-09-2022 07:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for IMSA GTSend a Private Message to IMSA GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
And as always Valkrie, you post irrelevant bullshit regarding the subject at hand and try to sidetrack the thread to your own mental, delusional way of thinking. Go back to the home and take your meds. Then go find another forum to put up with your crap.

[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 04-09-2022).]

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blackrams
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Report this Post04-09-2022 08:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by cvxjet:

And here is a simulation of what a real Solar Sail would look like....





Rudder?

Rams
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williegoat
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Report this Post04-09-2022 09:28 PM Click Here to See the Profile for williegoatClick Here to visit williegoat's HomePageSend a Private Message to williegoatEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by blackrams:


Rudder?

Rams


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Valkrie9
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Report this Post04-09-2022 10:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Centripetal station, maintenance and command, solar array power generation.
Eventually, we are leaving to explore the far reaches of our solar system, powered by star drives.
As in the past, there will always be the stinker, a fake bs trader.
Try to calm yourself and refrain from ad hominem attacks, cut and pasted from your stinking book of intolerance.
I would deduce then, that a man of your ilk has never suffered the trials and tribulations of a life of risk and consequence, so easily the bs leaves your lips.
I have met and worked with men of some accomplishments, they sure don't sound anything like you, a whiner, griper, always complaining about how the net makes you feel.
A lingering whiff, bad eggs n fish.



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Valkrie9
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Report this Post04-11-2022 12:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Solar Sails, the math behind solar sails
!
Space Kadets !
Pay attention !
Determine the differences of the design and construction of the Andromeda Solar Drive and the Earth Orbiting Solar Power Reflectors.
The importance of your designs and data are for the control of the planet's future environmental sphere, the power's safety and cleanliness.
Begin design of the Terran Power Receivers, Hydrogen Zeppelin Elevated Equatorial Arrays, Global Girthing Stations.
Yeah, nice, clean, safe, energy for all, in the future, after the nuke war.
Cheer up, it won't be long.

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hnthomps
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Report this Post04-11-2022 04:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for hnthompsSend a Private Message to hnthompsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I have not run the calculations but have a memory of initial acceleration at least being quite slow/moderate. Do not look at this methodology as propulsion mechanism for peopled extra solar system journeys unless you are going to consider a multi generational arc type of vessel.

Nelson
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Valkrie9
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Report this Post04-11-2022 06:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Valkrie9Send a Private Message to Valkrie9Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


Non-Linear Dynamics of Ring World Systems Valid Concepts
Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, Vol. 35. pp. 475-497, 1982. More Maths and Ideas
Niven Ring Gravitational Stability java script calcs included !
Orbital Rings and Planet Building: Prelude to Colonizing the Solar System This is exciting imagineering !
Superpressure Balloon Calculator For when you wish to send it up !
!

Clearly, a gyro stabilized platform is desirable.
!
High altitude solar energy receivers, of earth orbiting reflecting mirrors, are necessary to optimize transmission, reduce losses.

So, you want to get high...on your way to building orbiting mirrors, then, solar sails mounted, then deployed, from rocket boosted interstellar spacecraft to the nearest earth-like extra-solar planet.

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blackrams
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Report this Post04-11-2022 08:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for blackramsSend a Private Message to blackramsEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by hnthomps:

I have not run the calculations but have a memory of initial acceleration at least being quite slow/moderate. Do not look at this methodology as propulsion mechanism for peopled extra solar system journeys unless you are going to consider a multi generational arc type of vessel.

Nelson


Well dang Nelson, you just caused me to cancel my trip.
I'm not planning on producing any more new generations.

Rams
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rinselberg
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Report this Post05-27-2022 02:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for rinselbergClick Here to visit rinselberg's HomePageSend a Private Message to rinselbergEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post


So what's with the "rainbow" color scheme in this artist's conception of sail-propelled spacecraft, drawing propulsive energy from the light of the Sun?

This is the Diffractive Lightsails concept. It's something new from NASA. These sails would not work by reflecting sunlight, which is a concept that has already been tested.

 
quote
Shortcomings of the conventional reflective design include sails that are big and thin. They’re also limited by the direction of sunlight, which serves to constrain either power or navigation, as you can’t have both. Diffractive lightsails, by comparison, employ tiny grates on the sail material to diffract light in all directions. As NASA says, this will allow spacecraft to “make more efficient use of sunlight without sacrificing maneuverability.”

The design ... could result in smaller and nimbler sails. And as a fun side effect, the sails would be rainbow-patterned, similar to how CDs look when held to light.

"NASA moves ahead with 'wild' solar sail concept"
George Dvorsky for GIZMODO; May 25, 2022.
https://gizmodo.com/nasa-so...ightsails-1848971175

The use of tiny diffracting grates, instead of shiny, reflective surfaces... tiny beats shiny..!

Who knew?

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 05-27-2022).]

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