There is also this theory, 'A tragic accident in the heat of the moment': new docudrama claims JFK was shot accidentally by a 'hungover' secret service agent:
9/11... I was already 44. Old enough to be quite aware of how crappy the world could potentially be. But this was a whole 'nother level. I was sad (obviously), but angry at the same time. The only thing I was certain of, was that the world would never be the same, going forward. I didn't know exactly what to expect. Nobody did.
I remember when I turned on the TV that morning that I just couldn't process what the hell was going on. Being on the west coast, everything had already happened by the time I started watching the news reports. Replays of planes crashing into the towers, and then the towers collapsing, were being played over and over. I wasn't 100% sure at the time what was live and what had been recorded. Seeing people hurling themselves from the burning towers, and then the towers themselves pancaking was without a doubt the worst thing I'd ever witnessed (on TV or otherwise) in my life. It was an absolutely horrible string of events which indeed has forever changed the world as we knew it.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-20-2023).]
A magic trick, sleight of hand, a diversion, and a convenient fall guy. ' It was him ! ' the decoy, he even denied it.
If you can be made to believe absurdities.. ' Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. ' ~ Voltaire
We are here today on the cusp of another world war, a catastrophic nuclear exchange, should the Russian military fail to retreat from Ukraine. You can then anticipate that DC will be destroyed and St Petersburg minutes later, these are the first two civilian targets on the lists. After that, it would be an automated series of launches, no more than clockwork, humans no longer pushing or flipping switches.
9.11 too was an inside job, the evidence as plain as day in the rubble, every construction steelworker on the planet looking at it, ' That's not true ! '
You have to ask yourself, ' Will Biden_Joe invite that atomic cataclysm upon the continental US ? ' The question then becomes, ' When has Biden_Joe ever lied to me, and do I trust him to be a rational man ? '
' I'm not upset that you lied to me, I'm upset that from now on I can't trust you. '
' Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people. '
' Unfortunately, in science what you ' believe ' is irrelevant. '
' We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. '
' For those who believe, no proof is required, for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. '
' No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot. '
' There are two different types of people in the world, those who want to know, and those who want to believe. '
The Warren Report's contention of the single bullet is that absurdity, and that they found it. The third fragmenting bullet blew a plum sized exit wound from the grassy knoll, instantly killing John Kennedy.
I was born 24 days before the North Koreans crossed the 38th parallel in June of 1950. 5 years after Japan surrendered and WW2 ended.
My mother was very prim & proper 99% of the time. That other 1% was usually about the Japanese or Germans. I never heard her reference the Japanese other than "Japs' and almost always was preceded by the words 'Those Dirty as in 'Those dirty Japs! ....
I don't know to this day what my Dad thought the outcome of that conversation would be, but from that moment on, I knew I would become a US Marine. I forged his name on the enlistment parental permission form at 17 (got caught and had to wait till I was 18) . I still have that forged form, but also have my Dad's US Army discharge hanging by my own Marine discharge on the living room wall.
Hah! That's a pretty awesome story MJ. I'm sure your dad was kind of hoping you'd say... "Nah... not worth my trouble."
Loved this part, "...this mainstreet here won't be wide enough for anyone but you to walk down."
Hahah... and I know I shouldn't laugh... but this got me... "You'll have to ask him boy, but he never wants to be cold again."
Honestly, with a lot of those older cars you said you worked on... I honestly wish I'd had the opportunity to work on some of them. I know things were heavier, bigger, bulkier, but they were also a bit more simple. At least in comparison today. It probably didn't seem like it today, but a lot of those cars ... like the L8 engines, that was just raw power. So much torque from those straight-8 motors, and the balance was fantastic on those (or at least should be). I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and never had a carbureted car until I went out looking for one (VW Bus, my Olds Cutlass, etc.). Those Rochester QuadraJets I know are a bit more designed than some of the Rochester 4-Jets / Square-bores that they had back in the day, but like a mechanical watch, it's amazing how they're able to do all of that with so much simplicity and engineering. I realize a fuel injection system is also "engineering," but it's the difference (truly) between a mechanical engineer, and an electrical engineer in their design.
The straight 8s WERE very well balanced. Their perfection showed up in cruising. Rode with my Dad's friend in his Packard from East of Houston out to Luling and back one week. It was like you were just floating down the highway. (It was well before I-10 was finished and most of the time we were on state highways (73) and US 90)
Cars were simpler then, but also hard to work on because you actually repaired components. We rebuilt carbs, generators and starters, brake master and wheel cylinders; not just throw a new one in like they do today. And of course, setting valves thru those side covers on non-ohv engines wasn't much fun either. But, there were usually no AC compressors or emission crap in your way.
After I returned from overseas in '71, USMC was pushing everyone to 'continue their education. Among the courses I took, I went downtown to a week long class GMDelco put on in Memphis learning to overhaul quadrajets. Springs and jets and metering rods oh my!! Measure this, bend that........ but, the Holley 3160 three barrel wasn't much easier.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-25-2023).]
You will note, there is one unnamed, unidentified sniper firing from behind the fence above the grassy knoll. One of two which fired the shots that caused the large exit wound on the left rear of John Kennedy's head, the final fragmenting explosive bullet. Smaller faster bullet, perhaps.220-250 Remington, or .220 Swift, likely the smallest cartridges considered, single shot bolt action, varmint rifles, only one shot each. .220 Swift .220-250 Remington .220-250 Ballistics minutia
' If you don't believe in conspiracies, you've never read a history book. ' ~ G. Edward Griffin.
The straight 8s WERE very well balanced. Their perfection showed up in cruising. Rode with my Dad's friend in his Packard from East of Houston out to Luling and back one week. It was like you were just floating down the highway. (It was well before I-10 was finished and most of the time we were on state highways (73) and US 90)
Cars were simpler then, but also hard to work on because you actually repaired components. We rebuilt carbs, generators and starters, brake master and wheel cylinders; not just throw a new one in like they do today. And of course, setting valves thru those side covers on non-ohv engines wasn't much fun either. But, there were usually no AC compressors or emission crap in your way.
After I returned from overseas in '71, USMC was pushing everyone to 'continue their education. Among the courses I took, I went downtown to a week long class GMDelco put on in Memphis learning to overhaul quadrajets. Springs and jets and metering rods oh my!! Measure this, bend that........ but, the Holley 3160 three barrel wasn't much easier.
One of the things I think I miss from those days... is that every car company had their own engine. Even the smaller companies like Hyundai / Kia... they still all use the same engines. But back in the day, GM had a different motor company for each car company. Then they started moving to "corporate" motors. They STILL had specialized motors for a couple of companies... like the Cadillac Northstar Engine, or even the Oldsmobile 32v motor... but by the GM bankruptcy... there's just Chevy motors now. I say "remember" but obviously, having been born in the late 70s, there's only so much of that I remember because new cars were pretty underwhelming, even if they still looked cool... and I didn't much get into cars until the late 90s. But even around 1997-1998 when I started going to the junkyard every weekend. There were still a steady stream of mid-70s cars showing up in the U-Pull-It lot... and they all had big honkin' engines, each totally different. It really makes me sad some of the cars I've seen get crushed... Buick Wildcats... an insane number of Smokey & the Bandit Y99 TransAms. I mean, there was a couple of Porsche 928s in the yard every weekend (new ones), all crushed... no one ever touched the 5.0 Porsche V8s. Maseratis... Rolls Royces... you name it.
I started a separate web-page where i was taking pictures of junkyard cars... https://www.pontiacperforma.../other/junkyard.html ... but when I switched my website from a Windows-based environment, to a Linux-based environment... most of the images broke because the files are case sensitive... so only half the pictures show up. But if you did want to see any of them, you can click on them, and then just change the lower-case jpg to upper case JPG and it'll show up. I'll go back through and update the page... one day, but it just hasn't been a priority.
But yeah... I really enjoyed learning how to rebuild a carburetor... I did it, but honestly didn't really know what I was doing other than replacing parts. I did eventually learn how to adjust the air / fuel screws, and how to adjust the secondaries by bending the little bracket, etc. But I do miss true mechanical engineering...
I think it was the late 70s or early 80s when GM got into a stink when some Oldsmobile owners found out their engines were Chevy and not Olds. I had a Pontiac Ventura that had a factory installed Buick 350 in it. Front mounted dist and an external oil pump. That same engine was used in some Jeep Gladiator and Wagoneers under the name Dauntless V8.
Samuel Holland. Listening to an eyewitness' testimony, determining his truthfulness, then, reading the Warren Report, one would be perplexed to discover that they entirely disregarded the man's account. To this day, the cover-up continues, Lee Oswald was an innocent man, ' he didn't shoot anyone. ' LBJ did it. ' Tell me, how does that make you feel, hmmmn ? ' A pretend shrink inquiring as to your mental state when the government lies to you, sucking on a pipe, ' Get the pipe in the picture ! Get the pipe in the picture ! ' Well, the investigators, detectives, the inquiring sleuths gathered the information, only to be ignored. What you believe is true is irrelevant, now, ' Swallow this spoonful of pure botulism jam ! ', How do you like that, hmmmn ? Jackie Kennedy .. Years from now, people won't care, scrambling over the rubble of a destroyed nation, seeking food and clean water. Biden_Joe's lies the reason for the destruction, shirking his sworn duty, a fraud, an imbecile. Escalation to nuke war, very soon. fjb
' There are plenty of recommendations on how to get out of trouble cheaply and fast. Most of them come down to this, Deny your responsibility. ' ~ Lyndon B. Johnson
maga ! lol ! Triggering a response from tds infected zombies. lol. Perhaps you've partaken of the marxist pablum in your youth, and are still unable to solve questions for truth, reality. Disparaging Biden_Joe as pretendadent, stumbling to global war which he intends to lose. LBJ plotted the assassination, took power, then waged war. Biden_Joe has been receiving bribes, and is now intent on failing in Ukraine, and Taiwan, the end of the world as we know it. ' I object ! ' ~ most everyone on the planet.
' Evil can be measured by the depth of the lie, no one seems to see the self destructive nature of the lie. To hide truth for the sake of a lack of understanding it, is to never know anything but lies, and to die in ignorance. '
Triggering a response from tds infected zombies. lol.
I know you're aware of the P&R section, because you post there. It's THE place for all Biden/Trump crap. And I know you're not as dumb as you're now pretending to be, so smarten up.
' JFK Assassination - more than one shooter? by TheDigitalAlchemist '
Well, I supposed the title of the thread and it's location was, is, approved. Political dialog on the killing of John Kennedy is... political, logically. Selectively stripping out a single sentence when quoting, to emphasize the offending words, weapons of war, striking down sworn enemies of reason, the marxist sycophants. One hundred million casualties in a fast approaching global war, Two Hundred. The bottom line was that the pathetic fool actually has a plan to fail. ' I think predicting a victory in Ukraine is utterly foolish. ' Unless, of course, Russian military commanders decapitate their leader.
Clint Hill on the scene. Controversial, and counter Warren conspiracy. Things that are true. Ummmm..
There is also this theory, 'A tragic accident in the heat of the moment': new docudrama claims JFK was shot accidentally by a 'hungover' secret service agent:
It's actually a very old theory (I think it was first suggested in the early 70s?). But it makes a lot of assumptions and it's really not all that plausible. First of all, none of his colleagues nor any of the many witnesses remember actually seeing the rifle being fired. Only a few witnesses thought the shots came from nearby, possibly even from within the motorcade. But at that specific spot it was very hard to determine where any sound came from (due to it being pretty much an acoustic echo box) and people placed the origin of the shots all over the place. Also, Donahue (the originator of this theory) makes a huge assumption about the bullet's trajectory. And lastly, the chance that the secret service agent's rifle was exactly aimed at JFK's head at the time his rifle supposedly fired accidentally, is abysmally small.
It would however, explain a few things. It has been proven that firing those three shots within such a small time was nearly impossible. In fact, Donahue was the only one able to pull it off. Several other marksmen who tried, were unable to do it. Also, it would explain LHO's conviction he was being framed. If he only fired one or two shots, of which at least one missed, he knew there must have been another shooter who fired the fatal head shot.
It would however, explain a few things. It has been proven that firing those three shots within such a small time was nearly impossible.
Depends on the shooter's ability and familiarity with the rifle used. AND, depends on the recoil of the rifle. Recoil is what (combined with bolt action) is what causes a shooter to lose target acqusition, which translates to un desirable bullet placement. I would call recoil in that particular rifle 'modest' at worst. But it does shoot a very flat trajectory, with little bullet drop, especially at the range JFK was shot (from Texas book depository building) .
I would have great difficulty making those shots that fast with my bolt action 270 Weatherby due to it's heavy recoil but not with 6.5 Cacano. I routinely shoot my 7.62x39 and so does my wife. True, it's semi auto, but still the recoil is barely noticeable.
I would have great difficulty making those shots that fast with my bolt action 270 Weatherby due to it's heavy recoil but not with 6.5 Cacano. I routinely shoot my 7.62x39 and so does my wife. True, it's semi auto, but still the recoil is barely noticeable.
I remember reading somewhere several marksmen tried it and Donahue was the only one able to pull it off. Let me search the interwebs real quick. Because, as you know, if it's on the internet, it must be true. 😉
Donahue first became interested in the story of the assassination of John F. Kennedy after participating in a re-creation of the shooting as one of eleven invited marksmen and sharpshooters.[2] He demonstrated that it would have been possible for Lee Harvey Oswald to have fired three shots in the time specified by the Warren Commission, and was the only one of the eleven to better the 5.6-second window. However, the experience highlighted to Donahue other concerns regarding the Warren report — in particular, the fact that the testimony of ballistics experts seemed to have been completely omitted from the Commission's evidence gathering.
For the test, 11 marksmen from diverse backgrounds were invited to participate: 3 Maryland State Troopers, 1 weapons engineer, 1 sporting goods dealer, 1 sportsman, 1 ballistics technician, 1 ex-paratrooper, and 3 H. P. White employees. CBS provided several Carcano rifles for the test. Oswald's rifle was not used in this test. The targets were color-coded orange for head/shoulder silhouette and blue for a near miss. The results of the CBS test were as follows: 7 of 11 shooters were able to fire three rounds under 5.6 seconds (64%). Of those 7 shooters, 6 hit the orange target once (86%), and 5 hit the orange target twice (71%). Out of 60 rounds fired, 25 hit the orange (42%), 21 hit the blue portion of the target (35%), and there were 14 misses on the target (23%).
Thanks, I've read both Wiki entries several times previous.
I would be more interested in knowing the actual firearms/marksmanship experience level of each of the participants in the 'test'. Of course, I suspect most (of those adults) are now dead, like just about everyone else from that era.
Shooting at a stationary head/shoulders silhouette target is much different from shooting at a target that is moving either directly toward you or moving directly away from you. In many ways, easier to hit the moving to or away target than the stationary target.
I'm not quick to label something as a "conspiracy," and, in this case, I tend to believe that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) acted alone as the gunman. The evidence suggesting otherwise seems rather weak.
That being said, there are a few things that just don't feel right if he was the sole gunman.
Firstly, LHO could have technically made those shots. The rifle he used could be fired within the 5.6-second timeframe (though some sources suggest it might even have been longer, over 8 seconds). The shot itself wasn't particularly challenging; the rifle had low recoil, and the bullet had minimal drop over that distance. However, we must consider Oswald's state of mind. He might have been a skilled marksman but had never killed before, let alone attempt to kill such an important individual. Unless he had nerves of steel, he must have been incredibly anxious, sweaty, and perhaps even trembling. This would significantly reduce the likelihood of hitting two near-perfect shots. Yet he did it.
What's intriguing is that three expert marksmen, all rated as "Master" by the National Rifle Association, attempted the same shots with a more relaxed time limit and under less stressful conditions. In their first shots, all hit the target (LHO supposedly missed his first shot). The second shots were all missed in the initial four attempts. LHO's second shot was nearly perfect, hitting Kennedy in the back and injuring Connally. The third shots were hit in all attempts except one. LHO's third shot was impeccable, hitting the president in the head. So, even seasoned riflemen found it impressive what LHO accomplished under such tense circumstances.
It's puzzling that LHO was so adamant in his claim he was just a patsy. If he was the sole gunman, given his background and supposed motives, one would expect him to brag about his actions or at least explain why he did it. But he never did.
Oswald quickly became a suspect, which is remarkable. Eyewitness accounts of the shooter were mostly unclear, and there wasn't much to implicate LHO at the time except his "strange behavior." It's odd that, amidst the general chaos and excitement surrounding the event, people managed to single out one person as acting even more strangely. They did find his palm print on the rifle, but that wasn't identified until after his apprehension.
Then there's the case of Jack Ruby, whose reasons for his actions are bizar to say the least. He had no personal connection to the Kennedys, yet he claimed to act out of a desire to spare Jackie Kennedy from a lengthy trial and protect the Jewish community's image. However, there was no connection between the Jewish community, LHO, or the Kennedys. It seems these connections existed solely in Ruby's head. While there are anecdotal reports of Ruby being paranoid in the year prior to the assassination, no concrete sources or medical records confirm such severe mental instability. It is documented, though, that he became increasingly mentally unstable during his time in jail. But that was after the shooting.
In conclusion, my inclination is still toward Lee Harvey Oswald being the sole gunman because there's a lack of compelling evidence pointing in any other direction, in my view. However, it does mean that LHO was remarkably lucky to pull off those shots, and the investigative work conducted in just a few hours is impressive. Also, despite having a political motive to kill JFK, LHO never made that motive clear, which is usually a key aspect in such crimes.
In conclusion, my inclination is still toward Lee Harvey Oswald being the sole gunman because there's a lack of compelling evidence pointing in any other direction, in my view. However, it does mean that LHO was remarkably lucky to pull off those shots, and the investigative work conducted in just a few hours is impressive. Also, despite having a political motive to kill JFK, LHO never made that motive clear, which is usually a key aspect in such crimes.
I agree. Much was made (understandably) of LHO's visit to USSR and him being a commie or socialist, but there is a very lengthy description of him and his activities in the years leading up to the assignation. It's in US National archives as part of the Warren Commission report. He became quite disillusioned with life under Stalin and socialism and returned to the US with his new wife. It's a pretty long read. https://www.archives.gov/re...ort/appendix-13.html
Shooting at a target moving away from you is easy peasy. You wait for the target to get to your aim point, you don't try to acquire the target in your sights the first shot. I qualified in the Marines on the same range LHO did. It's been a minute or 2 but I believe, the shortest we fired was 100 yards, then incrementally longer ranges and ended at 500 yards, each at different positions(laying prone, sitting, standing etc) A 1/2 blind person can hit bullseye at 100 yards with a good rifle.
As far as him (or any other Marine) being nervous and apprehensive as he waited for his shot that morning, I disagree. I was a door gunner in Vietnam. It's incredibly easy to kill a man from a distance. Way TOO easy.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-29-2023).]
I think it was the late 70s or early 80s when GM got into a stink when some Oldsmobile owners found out their engines were Chevy and not Olds. I had a Pontiac Ventura that had a factory installed Buick 350 in it. Front mounted dist and an external oil pump. That same engine was used in some Jeep Gladiator and Wagoneers under the name Dauntless V8.
I know I keep taking this totally off-topic here, but I am really fascinated by these older engines. A lot has changed in ~50 years, but when I look at older cars... actually, let me take a step back. Quick side-tangent. When I was in my early, early 20s in the 1990s. Like 20/21... I used to hit this junkyard (I feel like I've already mentioned this). Because of the ebb-and-flow of Florida's boom-years (every 7-8 years, massive growth), entire swaths of South Florida would be completely up-ended. What would happen is that entire neighborhoods would flip from the old generation, to a new generation. People would sell their homes and move north to Ocala, pan-handle, etc., and as a result they'd usually sell everything. This resulted in a LOT... I mean a LOT of non-running (but otherwise pristine) classic cars ending up in the junkyard ... like I think I explained before. I would see Nash Metropolitans, every flavor of 70s car from the big-4, and lots and lots of classic 60s cars, including muscle cars that would sell for $100k+ in the condition that they were in even in the junkyard back in ~1999.
Never the less, I always looked in the engine compartments, and I was always fascinated by not just the relative simplicity (or I should say "lack of clutter"), but the design that went into these engines. It really felt like the engine aesthetics played a large part in the car. Even something as simple as a big floaty beige land yacht ... would have a very ornately designed big block motor in one of several attention-grabbing colors, with big dramatic words on the air cleaner. There were many bright orange, bright blue, green, even gold-colored engines. I even once saw a bright purple or lavender colored engine in some Dodge 2-door car ... like a Challenger or something.
It just kind of kills me that we've sort of lost that art and attention to detail on something like these engines. It's completely lost on most people today.
Even like this engine in my Crown Victoria (sorry, bad picture). At the time in 2001/2002, this engine was somewhat of a technical marvel for something being in what was essentially considered a very boring / utilitarian car. Multi-cam engine with multiple valves on top of an advanced medium-sized V8 engine that's made of advanced alloys with multiple composites.
All they did is simply stick a black plastic cover over it. This one actually came from the 2004 Grand Marquis, which I found in a junkyard, otherwise mine looked the same, but the V8 logo was just black like the rest of the cover.
Just bums me out.
I wish there was a museum (maybe there is), where they have all these engines carefully re-constructed and detailed as they would be, and on display by year.
I had an '84Jeep Cherokee (1st year they were built.) 4 cylinder engine and big air filter housing with the word HURRICANE decaled on it. That was in error. AMC owned Jeep at the time and the old faithful Jeep Hurricane engine that had power willys jeeps for a long time was not the 4 banger in the 84 Cherokee. It was an AMC engine. Maybe AMC had a bunch of leftover Hurricane air filter housings when they bought Jeep.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-30-2023).]
