So, I'd absolutely never heard of this organization... the Future Farmers of America: https://www.ffa.org/
Apparently, my daughter's school is a supporting chapter. I never knew this because she's only in her first year of high school, so I've never driven down there, and only recently started picking her up from Cross Country practice. Her high school is fairly new... built maybe in 2004 I think? It's enormous, and it's fairly well funded to the point that they are building a new auditorium and converting the old auditorium (which again, was only built in 2004) into an orchestra practice area.
Anyway, when I drive to the back parking lot where the students park (and where I pick my daughter up after practice), I pass by an agriculture pasture that sits between the road, and one of the large school parking lots where the marching band does their practice. Basically... it's a large barn and cow pasture (and some other structures) that sit right in the middle of the high school campus.
It's absolutely unlike anything I've ever seen before... the school has 4 cows, two llamas, two turkeys, a few pigs, a few goats, and some other animals that I can't think of right now. Just to be clear, I've been around cows before, I've just never seen cows at a high school. At least not in the United States. It's actually really cool.
Every time I drive down there to pick up my daughter, just like some people are doing sports, the "Ag" kids (as my daughter calls them) are doing their FFA chores such as feeding the cows and animals, cleaning up after them, and doing various other responsibilities. I've seen the kids do everything from putting up fence posts and barbed wire, to cleaning the cows, to carrying hay into a large pile... and even driving a back-ho. It's actually really cool to see that. I guess I just never expected it because this high school is in a highly populated area of Tampa, and isn't exactly out in the country.
Anyway, another thing I noticed... I've never seen a boy out there. All of the teenagers doing chores on the school farm are girls... like every single one of them.
They also have a large greenhouse and there's a separate organization that they support that grows plants and such (as part of the Agriculture group). My daughter is friends with a bunch of the "Ag" kids... I just thought it was so cool... I didn't even know there was such a thing.
Haha... this was half for his benefit than anything else... but I thought it was so cool that a school taught that kind of stuff. I just assumed that other than people going to school like Texas A&M or places that specifically taught agriculture, that farming was more or less something that was passed down from family to family.
I also don't know what kind of cows they are, but they aren't normal dairy cows. They aren't like the shaggy Scottish kind of cows that have the hair in their face, but it's like something in between. There's like two light brown ones with curly hair all over, and two dark brown ones with curly hair all over, and then two kind of spotted grey / black cows that I almost never see walking around. But one of the brown ones is always running around the field whenever I'm driving by.
It's just hilarious to see girls my daughter's age doing whatever it is in the pasture and by the barn.
I wore the blue gold jacket for the last 3 years in high school. Inversely, there were NO girls in our ag class. I was required to have an elective class and since I already knew a great deal about aoutmotives from working in my dad's autoshop for several years, and already knew my way around livestock some, ag was the next step. Ag class for juniors and sophmores was 1 hour, but 2 hours as a senior--last 2 hours of the school day. We had no livestock at the school but spent many of those 2 hour classes out on farms and ranches in the area, or at the large animal vet clinic. We did have a nice welding and forging shop on campus tho, and a meat processing area and cold room as well as a greenhouse we built while I was a junior.
I learned to palpate (for pregnancy cows, how to butcher chickens and rabbits, (we did about 200 of each on 2 different days and I still have a nice long vee shaped scar where I sliced my left index finger up cutting a chicken's head off) how to use (hands on) a tool called a trocar to release bloat gas from a cow's rumen, how to castrate and use a tool called a burdizo, and how to recognize and judge different cuts of beef.
Ag class and FFA was the reason I passed Chemistry in my senior year. I sucked at it because I had no algebra. But the instructor had a little farm, was a Texas A&M graduate and was always grilling me on what we learned and always wanted to go thru our books and brochures we got from the area vets. Guess he felt sorry for me, but he passed me on final exam when I know for sure I was going to fail it.
Easy for a Floridian to be clueless on the FFA. It's HUGE amongst Jr and Sr High schools in farming country. I went to school in Indiana. We had an FFA chapter in my school (I'm not a farmer so I wasn't part). It was HUGE. They even had a couple of days each year were the FFA members would/could drive their favorite tractor to school.
As far as your daughter's high school ag dept, I suspect the cows are Jersey, Guernsey or maybe Brown Swiss. Ag, like any other endeavor, is a science and those wanting to pursue a college degree in it, need to have an ag foundation before entering university. That's what Vocational Ag classes/FFA provides. I believe nowadays, FFA and 4H are often combined.
Here in Central Texas, the ag class makeup is different than my time. It's almost all female and most raiase goats/sheep as their yearly ag class projects. (I raised a hog one year (which we happily ate) and an Angus heifer calf the next, which we turned out into our brahma/heerford herd.
Back to my era. The 60s were a transition period for American Agriculture. The war years (both ww2 and Korea) meant few new developments took place in ag. Most farms were still using gasoline tractors, combines and balers as almost every diesel engine built was going into war use as was most diesel fuel itself. Research into agriculture virtually came to a standstill when ww2 broke out, the 50s were a catchup decade as industry switched from feeding troops to feeding a more wealthy America, and the world that was still reeling from war devastation. But the 60s is when innovation and real ag science began taking place. I knew (or thought I did) a lot about cattle and soil, until I started taking voc ag. I learned a lot in those classes, that helped me (and begrudgingly, my father) in the years afterward .
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-14-2023).]
Easy for a Floridian to be clueless on the FFA. It's HUGE amongst Jr and Sr High schools in farming country. I went to school in Indiana. We had an FFA chapter in my school (I'm not a farmer so I wasn't part). It was HUGE. They even had a couple of days each year were the FFA members would/could drive their favorite tractor to school.
It isn't all about soybeans and corn. Florida is one of the top 10 beef cattle producing states in USA. Sugar (#1 US sugar state) as well.
Anyway, another thing I noticed... I've never seen a boy out there. All of the teenagers doing chores on the school farm are girls... like every single one of them.
If teenage boys had half a developed brain, they'd put that knowledge to good use.
FFA & 4H are separate but maybe have offices in same building in some places. Often see both @ County & State Fairs in various spaces.
4H covers many "STEM" items forever not just Ag. Millions made/make almost anything to show in 4H building(s) in whatever fair. Many join 4H & that group may never do anything w/ Ag while others that's nearly all they do. Highlights web search: 4h fair rules Should give local rules in ~ 40 page pdf...
quote
4-H Department Classes Section A – Cloverbud: 4-H Prep Section B – Textiles and Sewing Exhibits Section C – Canning/ Drying Exhibits Section D – Computer Exhibits Section E – Arts, Crafts & Needlework Exhibits Section F – Indoor/ Outdoor Gardening Section G – Floriculture Exhibits Section H – Photography Exhibits Section I – Conservation, Landscaping & Natural Resource Exhibits Section J – Electric Exhibits Section K – Entomology/ Beekeeping Section L – Field Crop Exhibits Section M – Woodworking Articles Section N - Science Section O – Other 4-H Project Exhibits Section P – Place Setting Contest Section Q – Educational/ Club Exhibits Section R – Foods Exhibits Section S – Vegetable Exhibits Section T – Cut Flowers Section U – Demonstrated/ Illustrated Talks Section V – Judging Contests Section W – 4-H Talent Show Section X – State Avian Bowl Contest Section Y – Consumer Champions Bowl Contest Section Z – Public Speaking Section AA – Tractor Driving and Lawn Tractor Driving Contests Section BB – State 4-H Archery Contest Section CC – State 4-H Clothing Showcase Contest
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
It's been a very long time since I was involved in agriculture but, I always enjoyed the life style and the students have a chance to learn a lot of knowledge and skills on how to survive. Too many of us have forgotten what it takes to produce the food we need. Most of us don't even have gardens any longer and get our consumables from Wally World or a similar market. Heck, many don't even support local Farmers Markets.
FFA and 4H are both great organizations. I highly recommend either one for our youngsters. They may need those skills in the future and such things are great family ventures that help keep kids out of trouble.
------------------ Rams Learning most of life's lessons the hard way. Hey, you don't forget those and repeat them. You are only young once but, you can be immature indefinitely.
Most "farmers" today are corporations. I am sure the large scale ownership and production model is more efficient at producing food, but it has radically changed the "culture" of farming communities.
Most "farmers" today are corporations. I am sure the large scale ownership and production model is more efficient at producing food, but it has radically changed the "culture" of farming communities.
That, is a myth, at least concerning livestock production and overall, still mostly incorrect. There are STOs and BTOs but farming/ranching in both instances is a BUSINESS! It's expensive, regardless of which category you're in and full of risks, at the mercy of weather, demand and prices.
2017 was the most recent COMPLETE USDA agriculture census. It's much longer and move complex than the US population census. I hated filling them out. But the 2021 USDA census (includes part of 2020) has been tabulated enough to tell us that the average US farm size has not changed much.
The average farm size for 2021 is 445 acres, up from 444 acres the previous year. Average farm size increased in the $1,000,000 or more sales class and decreased or remained unchanged in all other sales classes.
Acreage is another way to assess farm size. According to the USDA, small family farms average 231 acres; large family farms average 1,421 acres and the very large farm average acreage is 2,086. It may be surprising to note that small family farms make up 88 percent of the farms in America.
People own most farmland. Some 2.6 million owners are individuals or families, and they own more than two thirds of all farm acreage. Fewer than 32,500 non family held corpor ations own farmland, and they own less than 5 percent of all U.S. farmland. Farmland owners hold an aver age of about 280 acres each.
Statistical Brief: Who Owns America's Farmland? - Census.gov
Census.gov
Even STOs tho, form a business for themselves. This is mostly for tax purposes to keep farm income separate from off farm income, because a great number of STOs worked at least part time to help finance part of the farm operation. My little incorporated farm business was D&J Farms. (Don & Jane) . The CPO that did my taxes highly recommended it.
Now, the processing areas is where big corporations have made big strides in recent decades. Gone, are many of the small packing houses and meat processors. Tyson, National Beef, JBS, ADM and Cargill are huge in both lbs of meat and $$ made. Gone, are most of the small local or regional processors. Who do those 4 buy from? Indirectly, from the STOs mostly, beginning at the local sale barn each week. Feedyard owners have order buyers at each local sale barn. Their orders come from people that feed local grown cattle out (finishing) and those feedyards then sell to the processors. (some of the feedyards are owned by a processor but not nearly all.)
(A feedyard is NOT a farm or ranch!)
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-15-2023).]
I wore the blue gold jacket for the last 3 years in high school. Inversely, there were NO girls in our ag class. I was required to have an elective class and since I already knew a great deal about aoutmotives from working in my dad's autoshop for several years, and already knew my way around livestock some, ag was the next step. Ag class for juniors and sophmores was 1 hour, but 2 hours as a senior--last 2 hours of the school day. We had no livestock at the school but spent many of those 2 hour classes out on farms and ranches in the area, or at the large animal vet clinic.
Hah, that's awesome... I had thought the organization was recent, and I didn't realize it was so wide-spread until I went to the website.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
As far as your daughter's high school ag dept, I suspect the cows are Jersey, Guernsey or maybe Brown Swiss. Ag, like any other endeavor, is a science and those wanting to pursue a college degree in it, need to have an ag foundation before entering university. That's what Vocational Ag classes/FFA provides. I believe nowadays, FFA and 4H are often combined.
Yeah, I looked up some charts of cows, and definitely looks like Jersey (though a bit more shaggy) and Brown Swiss. It seems like every time I drive by there, there's always a new pair of animals, and I honestly don't know where they keep them. There's a barn, and then a garage for the tractor and farm equipment, and then a big concrete building that may have those animals in it, not sure. I haven't seem the alpacas recently. Next time I pick up my daughter this week, I'll try to get a couple of pictures as I drive by.
I guess it makes sense... but I was just impressed. At first I assumed that some farmer owned the land and didn't want to give it up, haha... but it's right next to the large open lots where the marching band and the color guard practice. So the cows must be like WTF...
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:Back to my era. The 60s were a transition period for American Agriculture. The war years (both ww2 and Korea) meant few new developments took place in ag. Most farms were still using gasoline tractors, combines and balers as almost every diesel engine built was going into war use as was most diesel fuel itself. Research into agriculture virtually came to a standstill when ww2 broke out, the 50s were a catchup decade as industry switched from feeding troops to feeding a more wealthy America, and the world that was still reeling from war devastation. But the 60s is when innovation and real ag science began taking place. I knew (or thought I did) a lot about cattle and soil, until I started taking voc ag. I learned a lot in those classes, that helped me (and begrudgingly, my father) in the years afterward .
Makes sense... I see the kids mostly doing normal chores, feeding, cleaning, maintenance, etc... but I asked my daughter about it again this week, and she said there's a whole bunch of stuff they do, and apparently the large greenhouse is also part of FFA. They have two pastures, and I guess they let the cows switch between the two, but the kids working the plants are usually the same kids maintaining the trees and other plants that are within the pastures as well.
I'm just really impressed with all the stuff this school offers. I went to high school in Northern Virginia, which... being 30 minutes outside of D.C., it was certainly a bit more urban, or at least close to it. We had sports, and being the town that it was in... it was very "close knit," so a lot of the town's community things centered around the high school. We had an annual parade, and the high school would make floats and participate in it, etc. It was a GOOD school, and people moved there because the school was good.
But I am so impressed with this school. I'd never in all my years consider that a highs school would have their own farm. They've got a whole series of clubs and every sport you can imagine. They even do golf (but the kids have to travel since there's no golf course). My daughter has gone to all the football games because her boyfriend is in the marching band and holy s**t, the entire town shuts down every time the high school has a football game. Main street is completely packed, not unlike Carol City after a Dolphins Game with everyone trying to escape from Joe Robbie stadium. It's just a really cool experience
quote
Originally posted by Monkeyman:Easy for a Floridian to be clueless on the FFA. It's HUGE amongst Jr and Sr High schools in farming country. I went to school in Indiana. We had an FFA chapter in my school (I'm not a farmer so I wasn't part). It was HUGE. They even had a couple of days each year were the FFA members would/could drive their favorite tractor to school.
To be fair, I actually went to high school in Northern Virginia, middle school in Massachusetts, and Elementary school in Richmond, Virginia. I didn't move to Florida until I became an adult after graduating high school. But we definitely had nothing like that in my high school in Virginia. If they did, maybe I just didn't know about it. But I know that on our campus, there was certainly nothing of the sort. The Clintons seemed interested in visiting though... our mascot was the Warhawks, which makes it all that much more funny. Bill Clinton visited our high school twice, and Hillary last visited in 2018.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
If teenage boys had half a developed brain, they'd put that knowledge to good use.
Well, I have wonder if the girls are doing it because they like the animals, but as my daughter said, many of them are looking to become vets as well, so there's that. But I'm sure some of them want to be farmers as well. There is actually quite a bit of agriculture that's done here in Florida. Florida does a lot of sugarcane, oranges, peanuts (believe it or not) and a few other things. But the agriculture (as far as I know) isn't as organized as Texas.
Texas, particularly with H.E.B.... gets their food directly from farms that exist all around Texas. So, the food stays fresher, longer. In Florida, we primarily have Winn Dixie and Publix (which is like your run of the mill Food Lion, Giant, whatever... for you northerners). But the food doesn't last anywhere near as long, and it tends to come from all over the country. Matter of fact, the food that's served on the international space station actually comes from H.E.B., and is freeze-dried immediately, and then processed and put into space bags and sent up to the ISS.
quote
Originally posted by theogre:
FFA & 4H are separate but maybe have offices in same building in some places. Often see both @ County & State Fairs in various spaces.
I went to the Strawberry Festival here in Lakeland (which is about an hour north-east of me), and they had a cattle auction. It was hilarious the terms they were using...
"This is a fine lookin' heifer, nice square shoulders, etc..." I was like... man... this seems almost inappropriate... hahah. It was cool too because they had a bunch of kids that would walk into the rodeo grounds and show off the cow that they had been raising and taking care of.
quote
Originally posted by GuyFiero:
Most "farmers" today are corporations. I am sure the large scale ownership and production model is more efficient at producing food, but it has radically changed the "culture" of farming communities.
Fred, you were banned for wildly inappropriate comments. I'd recommend that, rather than creating a new account, you maybe ask Cliff if he's willing to unban you.
Originally posted by maryjane: That, is a myth, at least concerning livestock production and overall, still mostly incorrect. There are STOs and BTOs but farming/ranching in both instances is a BUSINESS! It's expensive, regardless of which category you're in and full of risks, at the mercy of weather, demand and prices.
2017 was the most recent COMPLETE USDA agriculture census. It's much longer and move complex than the US population census. I hated filling them out. But the 2021 USDA census (includes part of 2020) has been tabulated enough to tell us that the average US farm size has not changed much.
(A feedyard is NOT a farm or ranch!)
I kind of wondered about that. I see small cow pastures all over the place here in Florida. Even when I lived in South Florida (Fort Lauderdale), there are small cow pastures that can't be any larger than say 10 acres tops... and they have a few cows there. There's even a larger lot that also grows King Palms (doubles as a nursery) and they have a dozen goats running around and cows all over it. It's like this huge king palm forest with a tall chain link fence next to a 3-lane street (each way) that's usually extremely busy during most hours of the day.
I just got this off Google, I guess they've cut most of them down, but you can see some cows off in the distance. This land is probably exceptionally valuable. Every other plot of land, everywhere... is packed with neighborhoods, strip malls, and at least 5 universities and colleges all within a few miles of each other. So I'm sure it won't last. But when you drive up RT-27... 30% of it is nothing but cow pastures, swamp, orange groves, and sugarcane fields... and then like 70% of it is untamed Florida wilderness.
I went with welding instead of FFA as I didn't want to work on a farm. But it was very much a thing growing up in northern Ohio. Most of my family growing up in the 60s and 70s and some of the 80s were involved one way or the other. Its not as popular as it was as it does not take as much labor due to advanced machinery. But its still there.
Anyway, another thing I noticed... I've never seen a boy out there. All of the teenagers doing chores on the school farm are girls... like every single one of them.
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
If teenage boys had half a developed brain, they'd put that knowledge to good use.
quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:
Well, I have wonder if the girls are doing it because they like the animals, but as my daughter said, many of them are looking to become vets as well, so there's that. But I'm sure some of them want to be farmers as well. There is actually quite a bit of agriculture that's done here in Florida. Florida does a lot of sugarcane, oranges, peanuts (believe it or not) and a few other things. But the agriculture (as far as I know) isn't as organized as Texas.
Texas, particularly with H.E.B.... gets their food directly from farms that exist all around Texas. So, the food stays fresher, longer. In Florida, we primarily have Winn Dixie and Publix (which is like your run of the mill Food Lion, Giant, whatever... for you northerners). But the food doesn't last anywhere near as long, and it tends to come from all over the country. Matter of fact, the food that's served on the international space station actually comes from H.E.B., and is freeze-dried immediately, and then processed and put into space bags and sent up to the ISS.
Todd... relax, I'm not criticizing your last post above. I'm just trying to figure it out. How does it have any connection with the post of mine that it was responding to? Perhaps you didn't understand what I was getting at with my response to your first post?
Originally posted by Patrick:Todd... relax, I'm not criticizing your last post above. I'm just trying to figure it out. How does it have any connection with the post of mine that it was responding to? Perhaps you didn't understand what I was getting at with my response to your first post?
Why does your post needs a "relax?" Did I give any indication that I was upset? I'm not...?
I did get it... if the boys were smart, they'd join the FFA so they could get with the girls. Anyway, I wasn't disregarding that, I was just keeping with the original thought, I wasn't trying to dismiss your joke.
You've been a bit tense in our recent P&R exchanges.
But yes, my joke was that if teenage boys had any sense, they'd join the program simply to gain access to all the girls!
"Thorough" should not be taken as tense. I'm almost always, very calm. I also tend to type faster than anyone I've ever met (seriously), so my posts can (and sometimes do) become a stream of consciousness... which should not be viewed as me aggressively typing out an hour-long response to something. That's me just "bleah" from my brain. I have not been tense with any of my posts in the past several weeks.
Todd, I enjoy kidding around with you about cars or critters or video etc... but you are SO out of touch with reality when it comes to people and/or to their motivations in life.
So maybe now you understand why I posted what I did in this thread...
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Todd... relax, I'm not criticizing your last post above. I'm just trying to figure it out...
So maybe now you understand why I posted what I did in this thread...
Sight, Patrick... you've again derailed yet another thread. Is it really necessary to carry your problems from one thread to another? You now have three posts in here about this... ruining an otherwise perfectly good post. Seriously, what is wrong with you?
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 10-16-2023).]
Generally speaking, back in the day 4H was mostly female and consisted of things closer related to what went on inside a farmhouse. Quilt making, how to prepare country style meals, small animal raising (poultry mostly) ... stuff a farmer's wife might have to do. But now, it's different. 4H is now both male and female and there are lots of 4H girls raising calves, and lots of girls most places in FFA too.
Todd, I don't know If I've ever read where you were born but obviously Fla is at least your adopted home state. If you didn't already know it, cattle have beena part of Florida's history long before the big ranches began in Texas. There is a breed (type) of cattle still there today called Cracker Cattle and they were introduced there when the Spanish owned Florida in the 1500s. They almost went extinct when so many ranchers switched over to English breeds (Hereford, then Angus) and continental breeds like Limousin and Charolais. The Spanish cows were/are perfectly suited to Florida. They eat just about anything, insect and heat resistant, adequate milk for calves and pretty docile, and resistant to a type hoof rot meaning they can do well in wet regions other cattle breeds would not.
They are beginning to make a comeback now. I'll let you look into it to satisfy your own curiosity, but you need to understand that they were one of the few earliest beef cattle introduced to the new world, well before (about 200 years before ) the first Hereford ever came here and certainly before Angus arrived, which was after Herefords came here.
Fla is ideally suited to agriculture because both livestock and crops are grown according to Latitude, and not so much longitude, at least East of the Rockies. If you can grow it in East Texas, Ga, Miss or La, you can grow it in Fla.
The problem with farming in Fla nowadays, is much like everywhere else...the price/value of land. It reaches (has reached) a point, where the value of the dirt itself is more than what can be produced on it easily. This is especially true with older farmers/ranchers (myself included) . Every business has an exit strategy and one day it occurs to ya (if you don't have children interested in taking over the family farm) that it's time to sell and take the $$ and run. A man might make 6 figures/year farming (and it's HARD never ending work to do so no matter STO or BTO) but can sell that several hundred acres of land for $7000-20,000 an acre, when it was bought for just a couple of hundred/acre 50 years before. Even on the low end, a 150 ac place is worth 1 mil $. That kind of return is hard to resist when you're old and wore out.
So, why is there usually an uptick in the # of small farms nationwide? Because notwithstanding the number that disappear due to attrition of age, as the decades go by, there's still enough big parcels get divided into smaller parcels for a farmer/rancher's kids, then subdivided again the next generation. Quickly coming to a base line tho, as many young ones today want an easier life than farming. No days off. In 20years, my wife and I took exactly ONE vacation and even then, didn't wander too far away. Spent it down in Corpus and had to cut it short because our house/farm sitter got scared one night and left.
We have still, some really biig ranches in the US. Texas, Wyo, Neb etc and up in the Dakotas and PacNW but if you want to see some really BTOs, look at Canada. I speak to a couple of ranchers up there on internet several times/week and they're running thousands of head of beef cattle and they aren't even in the really big scope of things. Really nice folks too, that NEVER talk down to STOs. One has invited me up several times to spend a couple of weeks but I just can't do the cold, or the mosquitos. The Great White Cowboy might help round the cows up off the mountain sides each fall but he has to be a ***** to work in during the winter.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-16-2023).]
Originally posted by maryjane: Todd, I don't know If I've ever read where you were born but obviously Fla is at least your adopted home state. If you didn't already know it, cattle have beena part of Florida's history long before the big ranches began in Texas. There is a breed (type) of cattle still there today called Cracker Cattle and they were introduced there when the Spanish owned Florida in the 1500s. They almost went extinct when so many ranchers switched over to English breeds (Hereford, then Angus) and continental breeds like Limousin and Charolais. The Spanish cows were/are perfectly suited to Florida. They eat just about anything, insect and heat resistant, adequate milk for calves and pretty docile, and resistant to a type hoof rot meaning they can do well in wet regions other cattle breeds would not.
They are beginning to make a comeback now. I'll let you look into it to satisfy your own curiosity, but you need to understand that they were one of the few earliest beef cattle introduced to the new world, well before (about 200 years before ) the first Hereford ever came here and certainly before Angus arrived, which was after Herefords came here.
I suppose I've lived the greater part of my life in Florida, but I was born in Chicago, moved to Northern Virginia, then immediately DC, then to Richmond, VA, then to MA for the school year and CT for the summer and winter, and then back to Northern Virginia, and I didn't move to Florida until I was 18 in 1996.
I left again in 2011, having spent my entire time in South Florida during those 15 years (outside of vacations and visiting family). But I didn't venture out much to the rest of Florida until I came back in 2014. I'd always seen a lot of cow pastures, but I had so little knowledge of farming that I just assumed everyone who had a cow pasture in Florida, did so to an extent so they could get the agricultural tax breaks while they waited for the land to increase in value. That's probably somewhat true for a lot of South Florida since they only had a couple of cows on the land at any given time... but when I was married, and especially when my daughter was born, we traveled all over Florida to expose her to as much as we could, and constantly saw big cow pastures and farms in the northern and central parts of Florida.
Very cool to learn about that specific breed, Cracker Cattle:
When I was trying to figure out what kind of cow my daughter's school has, I ran into all of those names you mentioned above. I had no idea there were so many different breeds of cows.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:Fla is ideally suited to agriculture because both livestock and crops are grown according to Latitude, and not so much longitude, at least East of the Rockies. If you can grow it in East Texas, Ga, Miss or La, you can grow it in Fla.
The problem with farming in Fla nowadays, is much like everywhere else...the price/value of land. It reaches (has reached) a point, where the value of the dirt itself is more than what can be produced on it easily. This is especially true with older farmers/ranchers (myself included) . Every business has an exit strategy and one day it occurs to ya (if you don't have children interested in taking over the family farm) that it's time to sell and take the $$ and run. A man might make 6 figures/year farming (and it's HARD never ending work to do so no matter STO or BTO) but can sell that several hundred acres of land for $7000-20,000 an acre, when it was bought for just a couple of hundred/acre 50 years before. Even on the low end, a 150 ac place is worth 1 mil $. That kind of return is hard to resist when you're old and wore out.
100%... this has been the biggest issue with Florida real estate and land. To the point that it's a rare area that politically everyone has agreed to try to protect certain areas of land from development... not the least of which is the Everglades. Lots of national and state parks, and especially NWR sites have popped up in Florida if for no other reason than to protect the land. I've personally seen this as well... my home in South Florida is in an area that is WEST of Fort Lauderdale. My home was built in the late 80s, and actually sits on an old cow pasture. This was during a time when they didn't scrape the soil and replace it with crap fill... so almost quite literally, anything I stick in the ground starts to grow. But when I moved there in 2003, there hadn't been huge expansion yet, and all the surrounding areas were all cow pastures still... lots of cows. It's all been replaced now with neighborhoods, strip malls, a Target, grocery stores, big churches, etc. All the towns are similar... and they've all grown and filled-out the spaces in between so it's one giant mega-suburb.
Oddly enough, the history isn't lost on Florida. The town of Davie, even though it's totally surrounded by urban sprawl, still has a Rodeo (Burgeron Rodeo Grounds), and even the Mc.Donalds (at the time) had a "horse through." That McDonalds has been shut down (because it was so old) and they built a new one a few miles down the street. There used to be tons of TACK and FEED places, and smaller farms, but most of them have turned into boutique stores and there's not much there beyond a "theme." Think ChinaTown in downtown Washington D.C.... it's more of a theme than there are actually any Chinese people still living there.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:So, why is there usually an uptick in the # of small farms nationwide? Because notwithstanding the number that disappear due to attrition of age, as the decades go by, there's still enough big parcels get divided into smaller parcels for a farmer/rancher's kids, then subdivided again the next generation. Quickly coming to a base line tho, as many young ones today want an easier life than farming. No days off. In 20years, my wife and I took exactly ONE vacation and even then, didn't wander too far away. Spent it down in Corpus and had to cut it short because our house/farm sitter got scared one night and left.
Ugh, that's sad... yeah, I know you guys would work your asses off. Lot of manual and back-breaking work... and not for fun, but because there's no one else to do it.
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:We have still, some really big ranches in the US. Texas, Wyo, Neb etc and up in the Dakotas and PacNW but if you want to see some really BTOs, look at Canada. I speak to a couple of ranchers up there on internet several times/week and they're running thousands of head of beef cattle and they aren't even in the really big scope of things. Really nice folks too, that NEVER talk down to STOs. One has invited me up several times to spend a couple of weeks but I just can't do the cold, or the mosquitos. The Great White Cowboy might help round the cows up off the mountain sides each fall but he has to be a ***** to work in during the winter.
When I was a kid... I used to imagine that much of the mid-west was huge cow pastures like in the John Wayne movie, "The Cowboys." Haha. I'd been to Dallas/Addison many times for work, but never much ventured beyond the city limits. When I was in SA, I made it a point to check out as much of Texas as I could... like Palo Duro, the whole Route-66 path, and then coming back down the south near the Big Bend and Marfa. But one of the coolest things was seeing those bulls at the Johnson family home. They came right up to the fence... and holy **** MJ... the horns on those suckers were as wide as the bulls themselves are long. I'm amazed at the very least that they're able to navigate without having the horns hit things...
...but if you want to see some really BTOs, look at Canada. I speak to a couple of ranchers up there on internet several times/week and they're running thousands of head of beef cattle and they aren't even in the really big scope of things.
Would this be in Alberta?
[EDIT] I wasn't really sure what BTO or STO stood for. I was pretty sure you weren't referring to thisBTO... but I found an excellent thread here... BTO and STO lingo.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-17-2023).]
I was working as skilled labor for the fair grounds (Oklahoma City)one year and we had a youth expo. Mostly goats. They take pride in cleaning and working with their animals. The labor force behind the scenes free and paid is incredible for just a week long event. A lot of money in the whole thing. 100k+ trucks towing not only the livestock, but many had their RVs or whatever to stay on grounds during the show. I wouldn't show my ignorance by guessing how many millions, but it's a huge part of the economy. It turns into a whole city overnight. Equestrian shows were also really neat. Lots of beautiful well tended animals.
I met a girl online years and years ago from Craigslist. She was moving here from NY. She had never driven a car before and that was part of first dating. She really believed we rode houses to work and such. This was 2007 maybe? I had no idea what the heck she was even getting at. I guess it's still a common misconception lack of knowledge.
My cousin has one on his homestead. What kind Don?
Wasn't logged in. Had to add the photo.
[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 10-17-2023).]
My guess would be a that is a Corrientes/Jersey cross steer but may be Corrientes. A steer, because it's too fleshy to be a heifer--too filled out and the hooks and pin bones (hip bones) are barely visible.
Patrick, Small, big and huge Ranches are all over Canada. BC, Saskatchewan, Aberta. I knew the focus of this non-fiction book as Idaman from another forum. He told his story there and his family compiled the book partly from a VERY long thread on that forum, after he suddenly died. It's very good read.
I mentioned The Great White Cowboy. In the US Pacific Northwest, the Rockies, and up in Canada, the ranchers don't have to go up into the high country to gather cattle in the fall. Cattle are pretty smart and have good memories. The first snowfall is the great white cowboy and the cattle start moving down to the valleys on their own as soon as first snow takes place because they know that is where the hay will be fed.
Todd you are correct. The tax exemption on ag land is significant most states. It cut my property tax by nearly 70% back in East Texas. In Texas you only need 15 acres for cattle (in varies county to county) and even less for hay, goat, and bee production. In E. Texas, you can run successfully 1 pair (cow and her calf) on 2 1/2 acres. Out here where I'm at that gets lots less rainfall, you would probably need 7-10 acres/pair. Some places farther west you may need 20acres or more per pair and the county appraisal district's ag advisory board sets the qualifications. You don't have to own the livestock. You can lease the land to someone that does own livestock and still get the same exemption.
The livestock shows are indeed a big deal, and some, like Houstoon, DFW, and places like KC, OK City and The National Western shows are HUGE deals, with the winners selling for high 6 figures. I may tell the story of what happened at The Nat Western Show one year..a bit of shennanigans that was hard to believe.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 10-18-2023).]
My guess would be a that is a Corrientes/Jersey cross steer but may be Corrientes. A steer, because it's too fleshy to be a heifer--too filled out and the hooks and pin bones (hip bones) are barely visible.
Patrick, Small, big and huge Ranches are all over Canada. BC, Saskatchewan, Aberta. I knew the focus of this non-fiction book as Idaman from another forum. He told his story there and his family compiled the book partly from a VERY long thread on that forum, after he suddenly died. It's very good read.
I mentioned The Great White Cowboy. In the US Pacific Northwest, the Rockies, and up in Canada, the ranchers don't have to go up into the high country to gather cattle in the fall. Cattle are pretty smart and have good memories. The first snowfall is the great white cowboy and the cattle start moving down to the valleys on their own as soon as first snow takes place because they know that is where the hay will be fed.
Todd you are correct. The tax exemption on ag land is significant most states. It cut my property tax by nearly 70% back in East Texas. In Texas you only need 15 acres for cattle (in varies county to county) and even less for hay, goat, and bee production. In E. Texas, you can run successfully 1 pair (cow and her calf) on 2 1/2 acres. Out here where I'm at that gets lots less rainfall, you would probably need 7-10 acres/pair. Some places farther west you may need 20acres or more per pair and the county appraisal district's ag advisory board sets the qualifications. You don't have to own the livestock. You can lease the land to someone that does own livestock and still get the same exemption.
The livestock shows are indeed a big deal, and some, like Houstoon, DFW, and places like KC, OK City and The National Western shows are HUGE deals, with the winners selling for high 6 figures. I may tell the story of what happened at The Nat Western Show one year..a bit of shennanigans that was hard to believe.
I would like to hear that story. My wife and daughter really enjoyed the cattle auction... and so we plan to go next year again when they have the Strawberry Festival (as long as we don't miss it). I didn't realize that Florida also had a thriving peanut farming sector as well. This website really talks a lot about it: https://authenticflorida.co...ut-farms-in-florida/
The first grocery store it mentions is Detwilers... which I could best describe to you as being the "size" of one of the larger HEBs, but carries more the stuff that you would find in HEB's "Central Market" fancy store... just that Detwilers is less fancy, and more K-Mart looking inside if you know what I mean. But the place is fantastic.
There's a couple of farms here that you can visit with tours and stuff... kind of like you would see on Louisiana for the Tabasco Tour on Avery Island... the business side with some fun touristy stuff.
Anyway, my daughter had a Cross Country meet on Tuesday, and it was at this large private Catholic school that competes with the local (and private) schools here in the Tampa area. Apparently THEY TOO also have an FFA / agro component to the school. Theirs was a bit more "defined" if you will than what my daughter's school had. Her school seemed to have what looks more like a traditional farm / ranch. This school had neatly organized pens with animals almost to make it seem like a petting zoo, but it was set up for FFA students. This is one of the cows they had... the girl was really nice, came right up to the fence and we pet her on the head...
They had a ton of goats (one of them kept screaming) and chickens and whatnot.
Patrick, Small, big and huge Ranches are all over Canada. BC, Saskatchewan, Alberta.
Don, I thought of Alberta first, as Alberta Beef is highly promoted... but of course, I didn't even think of the massive ranches right here in BC. Living on the coast, it's easy to forget what the interior of the province is like. My dad had mentioned The Gang Ranch to me when I was a kid.
quote
They settled and developed land forming the Gang Ranch, a ranch that, at one time, was considered one of the largest and most famous ranches in the world, controlling over four million acres of land and thousands of cattle and horses.
Wow!
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-18-2023).]
Generally speaking, back in the day 4H was mostly female and consisted of things closer related to what went on inside a farmhouse. Quilt making, how to prepare country style meals, small animal raising (poultry mostly) ... stuff a farmer's wife might have to do. But now, it's different. 4H is now both male and female and there are lots of 4H girls raising calves, and lots of girls most places in FFA too.
Don, Not to argue the point because you may in fact be correct in your or some locations but, as a 4H member in my youth, I honestly don't remember any farmhouse type of classes being taught in my specific club. That's not to say it wasn't present in other clubs because at the County fair, there was some being judged and on display in the larger buildings but, the primary Ag thing was cattle (beef and dairy), pigs, horses and as I remember, a few other animals like lamas. I don't remember any grain crops ever being shown or judged but, I wasn't looking for such things.
I too, was an FFA member in school as were two brothers before me. My older brother Pete used to tell our father that it stood for Father Farms Alone. Looking back, I find that ironic because the year he graduated he was going to take over the farm. That fall my younger brother and I came home from school in early September to find the cows in the corn. I took a shortcut through the barnyard to open the gate so we could herd the cows back in. I found the gate pulled open because one of our tractors was against the fence. I found my deceased brother under the hind tire of the tractor. We think he was hooking up the PTO driven blower belt to put corn in the silo and it slipped off and he tried to catch the tractor as it rolled away. Years later when my mother was in her nineties, my daughter worked at the Salvation Army one summer. She was sorting out clothing and found an FFA jacket with his name on it. Mom never asked any of us if we wanted it. I guess she was finally beginning to let go. My daughter brought it home. I tried to put it on but it was tight. I never realized he was smaller than me, but I was nine when he died. Our little school here just hired an Ag teacher. We haven't had an ag program here in years do budget concerns. She and her husband have a farm with 70 head of Shorthorns. As far as I know, they are the only ones milking that breed in the county. The school has had a trap shooting team for a few years now as well. Maybe they have figured out that life here is more than IT and AI.
Marc
I just edited this because when I submitted it, the paragraphs disapeared. I put them back and they are gone again. Shrug.
[This message has been edited by OldsFiero (edited 10-21-2023).]
I too, was an FFA member in school as were two brothers before me. My older brother Pete used to tell our father that it stood for Father Farms Alone. Looking back, I find that ironic because the year he graduated he was going to take over the farm. That fall my younger brother and I came home from school in early September to find the cows in the corn. I took a shortcut through the barnyard to open the gate so we could herd the cows back in. I found the gate pulled open because one of our tractors was against the fence. I found my deceased brother under the hind tire of the tractor. We think he was hooking up the PTO driven blower belt to put corn in the silo and it slipped off and he tried to catch the tractor as it rolled away. Years later when my mother was in her nineties, my daughter worked at the Salvation Army one summer. She was sorting out clothing and found an FFA jacket with his name on it. Mom never asked any of us if we wanted it. I guess she was finally beginning to let go. My daughter brought it home. I tried to put it on but it was tight. I never realized he was smaller than me, but I was nine when he died. Our little school here just hired an Ag teacher. We haven't had an ag program here in years do budget concerns. She and her husband have a farm with 70 head of Shorthorns. As far as I know, they are the only ones milking that breed in the county. The school has had a trap shooting team for a few years now as well. Maybe they have figured out that life here is more than IT and AI.
Marc
I just edited this because when I submitted it, the paragraphs disapeared. I put them back and they are gone again. Shrug.
Sorry to hear that Marc... I don't have a Joe Biden Kitchen fire story to compare that to, but I did lose my older brother as well many years ago. He'll forever be 28.
I've done equally silly things... thinking I can stop a vehicle as it's rolling. There was a van backing into my Fiero about ~20+ years ago... and I reached my hand out as if I was somehow going to push it out of the way. That didn't work out as I had planned.
They just got two new fuzzy baby cows... not sure if they are babies or teenagers. But one of them is all white and really fuzzy. The cow was running around and jumping and playing and whatever it is that young cows do... while the other one was getting hosed off by one of the girls in FFA.
The day after, there were a pair of hogs running around in the same pen with the pigs. And another girl was cleaning the big hog with soap and water and some kind of hand-attached brush.
I guess they have chickens too because my daughter also has a D&D club meeting, and one of the girls is raising chickens in FFA (and also does basketball with her), and presented it at the Hillsborough County Fair (which I apparently missed).
The neighbor behind and immediately to the left of me in this subdivision has chickens and a rooster, behind a 6' privacy fence of course. For the 1st few months I lived here, I thought I was going nuts, hearing them. Evidently, not uncommon around here, since this subdivision has no (thankfully) HOA. For a couple of weeks, I would take my laptop out to the back porch, and on 'loop' play a loud youtube video of cattle being worked, with lots of 'mooing'. Jane made me stop. She heard enough of that when I weaned calves off their mommas and had the calves in the working pens about 50 yards from the house. Between the calves wanting mama and the mamas wanting their calves, it got loud and went on several days and nights.
The neighbor behind and immediately to the left of me in this subdivision has chickens and a rooster, behind a 6' privacy fence of course. For the 1st few months I lived here, I thought I was going nuts, hearing them. Evidently, not uncommon around here, since this subdivision has no (thankfully) HOA. For a couple of weeks, I would take my laptop out to the back porch, and on 'loop' play a loud youtube video of cattle being worked, with lots of 'mooing'. Jane made me stop. She heard enough of that when I weaned calves off their mommas and had the calves in the working pens about 50 yards from the house. Between the calves wanting mama and the mamas wanting their calves, it got loud and went on several days and nights.
That brought back many memories from back in the day. Yeah, they can get loud. Same with mares and their colts, just a higher pitch. Thanks for reminding me.
The neighbor behind and immediately to the left of me in this subdivision has chickens and a rooster, behind a 6' privacy fence of course. For the 1st few months I lived here, I thought I was going nuts, hearing them. Evidently, not uncommon around here, since this subdivision has no (thankfully) HOA. For a couple of weeks, I would take my laptop out to the back porch, and on 'loop' play a loud youtube video of cattle being worked, with lots of 'mooing'. Jane made me stop. She heard enough of that when I weaned calves off their mommas and had the calves in the working pens about 50 yards from the house. Between the calves wanting mama and the mamas wanting their calves, it got loud and went on several days and nights.
Ah man... I don't want to be unmanly or anything... but I really just want to give that little white cow a big hug. Not like how the Taliban hug animals... but just like a big hug because I feel bad for the poor guy sleeping in that pen. When I drive by this morning, he (she?) was standing up and nuzzling / sniffing the bigger white cow that was in the pen right next to it (which was one of the original full adult cows). No idea if they're related. They look the same... just one is big and one is little, but I don't know if they were just hanging out.
Haha... I feel so bad that the cows have to be weened off of their moms / kids. Any reason why that's done?
Totally random, but I was driving by a cow pasture like half a year ago while on a road trip with the family. And there was this baby cow walking under the mom... and the mom just started peeing and pissed all over the baby... I mean like crazy. It was so much that it was obvious to us driving at ~50 miles an hour on a highway and looking at it from 30-40 meters away. Haha...
The kids really look like they're having fun taking care of the animals. I asked my daughter if she would ask the one that's taking care of the chicken, if she can get in touch with the one that manages the cows so my wife and I can go over there and give the little cow a big hug. Hahah... she was like... "Daddy, you are so weird..."
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 11-13-2023).]
Junction City (Kansas) High School when I went considered itself "too urban" to offer 4H or FFA when I was a student in the eighties. Nearby St Xaviers (Catholic High) didn't have them either. But nearby, Chapman, Abilene, and Manhattan High School (in a much bigger town no less) DID have both 4H and FFA. I saw the blue and gold jackets and saw a lot of the kids at the KS State Fair in Hutchinson, but I didn't really understand it.
Fast forward to today, JCHS new building has the 2nd largest in the US footprint based on square footage and both 4H and FFA programs which are VERY successful and have won State titles. JCHS has a pasture with some livestock, right next to a brand new subdivision of McMasions. lol Anyway, just goes to show you that just because the Big Red One (Army) is nearby, your never "too big" to host both 4H and FFA at your school
ROCK ON!
Had FFA been available, I would have taken it at JCHS, and had no problem doing it. Why? Skills learned there can be used to survive on, literally, even if you don't live in a rural area.
Topeka, the capital of Kansas, has neither FFA or 4H programs currently. (town of 130,000) in any of its 5 High Schools.
Haha... I feel so bad that the cows have to be weened off of their moms / kids. Any reason why that's done?
Yes. The 'youngster's' rumens won't develop if left on diet of only momma's milk. Their digestive system needs (preferably) long stem grass to really work right. Cows more so than goats. Producing milk takes a lot of nutrients from the mother, but the big reason, is that leaving the 2 together drags the mother down while she is growing her next calf in uterous. If you don't separate them, it takes a LONG time for the mother's bag (udder) to dry up and she'll just keep producing milk all the time she is carrying her next calf.
Most mommas will kick their calves off naturally at around 6-8 months old but for a significant # of calves, they'll persistently suck milk for a long time, stealing from the next newborn. I've seen a few adult steers, bulls and heifers still trying to nurse their whole lives. Those kind get to meet Ronald McDonald and become happymeals.
And if you are a dairy farmer, it means more milk in the bulk tank. But as you said, it takes a toll on the cow. I read recently that the average peak production of a top producing dairy cow is about two years.
8 years after mom died, my wife decided it was time to go through and sort some boxes of photos and memorabilia that she had. In there I found a paper about the national FFA convention. Brother Pete is in the photo somewhere.
I was working as skilled labor for the fair grounds (Oklahoma City)one year and we had a youth expo. Mostly goats. They take pride in cleaning and working with their animals. The labor force behind the scenes free and paid is incredible for just a week long event. A lot of money in the whole thing. 100k+ trucks towing not only the livestock, but many had their RVs or whatever to stay on grounds during the show. I wouldn't show my ignorance by guessing how many millions, but it's a huge part of the economy. It turns into a whole city overnight. Equestrian shows were also really neat. Lots of beautiful well tended animals. 
lol Anyway, just goes to show you that just because the Big Red One (Army) is nearby, your never "too big" to host both 4H and FFA at your school
