The video is from a good ways away and doesn't really show much. Certainly nothing gory. I looked at it several times and tho I know very next to nothing about hockey or skating, I can't figure out why the guy kicked his leg up so high.
They were there, and witnessed it up close so if they say it was an unintentional 'freak accident' I'll have to go with that.
That hockey player that kicked and killed him has a history of doing stuff like this to other players and officials.
I call bullsh!t. Got a link?
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
They were there, and witnessed it up close so if they say it was an unintentional 'freak accident' I'll have to go with that.
Nobody but nobody kicks their skates up high on purpose (except for figure skaters). It's drilled into every kid's head when they learn to skate that the blades are sharp and potentially dangerous. Although I play hockey just recreationally, I've watched thousands upon thousands of televised NHL games since about 1960... and it's very rare that skates ever get up around head level... and it's certainly never done purposely. However, freak accidents can occur when 200 lb men run into each other on skates doing 30+ MPH.
Russian hockey players have been accused in the past of "kicking", and yes, the accusation was mostly warranted... but those type of kicks were always down around the ankle or shinguard level. Not even the most villainous Red Army player ever tried to kill a member of the opposition.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 10-30-2023).]
Nobody but nobody kicks their skates up high on purpose (except for figure skaters). It's drilled into every kid's head when they learn to skate that the blades are sharp and potentially dangerous. Although I play hockey just recreationally, I've watched thousands upon thousands of televised NHL games since about 1960... and it's very rare that skates ever get up around head level... and it's certainly never done purposely. However, freak accidents can occur when 200 lb men run into each other on skates doing 30+ MPH.
Russian hockey players have been accused in the past of "kicking", and yes, the accusation was mostly warranted... but those type of kicks were always down around the ankle or shinguard level. Not even the most villainous Red Army player ever tried to kill a member of the opposition.
Considered the league most penalized player. Been suspended multiple times in his career.
I get he is a Canadian thug, that you just want to believe he is just a nice guy, but he isn't.
The video is from a good ways away and doesn't really show much. Certainly nothing gory. I looked at it several times and tho I know very next to nothing about hockey or skating, I can't figure out why the guy kicked his leg up so high.
As much as I didn't want to, I watched the video up to the point of impact. Yes, I agree, it looks bad as hell. It almost looks like a martial arts side kick! But man oh man... I cannot believe that anyone would ever do that on purpose while playing hockey. And no, it's not because I'm a hockey fan, or a Canadian, or a left wing commie pinko pantywaist boy. No relatively normal human being would purposely do that to another human being while wearing skates... especially in front of thousands of witnesses.
I can only conclude that this guy (whom I'm unfamiliar with) isn't the best skater, and that he was awkwardly trying to regain his balance after being set off-balance a split-second earlier by the other player cutting in front of him. Damn, that was awful to see.
Apparently this is not that uncommon. I've seen several players over the years get their throats slashed by the opponents skate.
That usually happens when a player is laying on the ice and another player runs into them. This incident is very different in that the guy essentially did a karate side kick into the victim's neck.
Apparently this is not that uncommon. I've seen several players over the years get their throats slashed by the opponents skate.
Where?
In the National Hockey League (founded in 1917), there have been two players in league history that have had their throats cut by skates. Both survived.
After a 20-minute period of hockey, the sheet of ice looks like the face of a 100-year-old man. The playing surface is an intricate pattern of grooved cuts with deep indentations.
If the edge of a skate blade, propelled by the weight and force of prime-conditioned athletes, can slice through hard ice with ease, imagine how fast it can move through human skin and muscle tissue. Hockey players know all too well, living with the knowledge they play a sport a razor’s edge away from a potentially horrific accident.
There never has been a fatality in the NHL because of a cut by a skate — somehow Clint Malarchuk survived having his jugular vein severed 20 years ago when he was a goalie for Buffalo — but gruesome injuries are an almost annual occurrence.
“To be honest, I’m amazed there haven’t been more incidents like mine,” Malarchuk said by phone from his home in Nevada. “I still cringe whenever I see a skate come up. They’re going to cut whatever’s in their way.”
On Feb. 10, 2008, Florida Panthers forward Richard Zednik had an external carotid artery sliced by a skate from teammate Olli Jokinen, who had been upended. Zednik’s artery was not severed, but he lost five units of blood and needed emergency surgery. He eventually made a full recovery.
Avalanche goalie Craig Anderson was in net for the Panthers when it happened, and he’ll never forget it.
“You saw the blood coming down on the ice from the neck and you knew it was bad. We finished the game, but it was tough. It was kind of a slow-motion game after that,” said Anderson, who will start tonight against his former team at Bank Atlantic Center.
In a playoff game last spring against Detroit, Chicago forward Adam Burish had his throat cut by the skate of teammate Ben Eager. Cuts to other body parts from skates — often to calves and thighs — happen routinely. Carolina goalie Cam Ward has been sidelined since Nov. 8 after a skate from Columbus’ Rick Nash sliced his leg. Former Avs goalie Jose Theodore sliced through the thigh of Anaheim’s Corey Perry in 2008, causing surgery and a six-week absence. Hall of Famer Dave Andreychuk — on the ice when Malarchuk suffered his injury — once suffered a gash in his back from a skate.
“I really didn’t even know I was cut or hurt until I got into the dressing room, and my pants were full of blood,” Andreychuk recalled. “It was such a fine cut that I really didn’t even feel it at first.”
Quick thinking by staff
Malarchuk certainly felt his wound, and wondered how he would survive getting off the ice when on March 22, 1989, he had the jugular vein along the left side of his neck severed by the skate blade of St. Louis Blues forward Steve Tuttle. As blood gushed onto the ice, Malarchuk was convinced he would soon die. And he would have if not for the heroic actions of the Sabres’ trainer, Jim Pizzutelli, a former U.S. Army medic.
Tuttle was knocked into the net by Sabres defender and former Avs player Uwe Krupp, and the Blues forward’s left skate diagonally passed through Malarchuk’s exposed jugular. Pizzutelli immediately raced to the ice and applied pressure with his fingers to the wound.
“I remember thinking, ‘God, you’re choking me, let go!’ ” Malarchuk said. “But he saved my life doing that. I was lucky because the play happened down by our player entrance, so it wasn’t far to the dressing room. The only thing I remember after that was another doctor coming in and leaning right over me on a table, with his chest right in my face, and applying a lot harder pressure to the cut area.”
Said Andreychuk: “I was only five feet away when it happened, and I remember we both looked at each other in the eyes right after it happened. Then you saw the blood. I remember seeing people throw up (in the stands). It was traumatic for all of us. We ended up playing the game out and we lost, and nobody cared. The game should have been stopped.”
Trauma runs deep
Malarchuk eventually recovered, and he played seven more years of pro hockey. But the emotional wounds took far longer to heal. Malarchuk grew up with an abusive father, and the throat injury created an added emotional trauma he tried masking with alcohol and prescription pills.
Last year, at home in Nevada, Malarchuk — then the goalie coach with Columbus — grabbed a gun after a day of “drinking and self-medicating.” He doesn’t call it a suicide attempt because he wasn’t in a clear state of mind, but he put a bullet through his face. He survived and maintains he’s now clean of drugs and alcohol with the help of a therapist. He’s no longer coaching hockey.
“I was like a lot of guys. I thought I could just get back out there (on the ice) and everything was fine. I dealt with the physical part, but didn’t deal with the emotional stuff at all,” Malarchuk said.
His therapist helped turned his life around, he said.
“Things started to click, and I really started to reflect back on my life. Now, I feel like I’m ready to help others.”
As for the issue of skate danger, Malarchuk said, “They haven’t gotten any less sharp, and I just hope nothing as serious ever happens as what happened to me.”
I guess I should have said "This has happened before" rather than use the "not uncommon" comment. I was actually thinking about the 2 you posted plus I've seen it happen here 3 times with our non-pro leagues.
As much as I didn't want to, I watched the video up to the point of impact. Yes, I agree, it looks bad as hell. It almost looks like a martial arts side kick! But man oh man... I cannot believe that anyone would ever do that on purpose while playing hockey. And no, it's not because I'm a hockey fan, or a Canadian, or a left wing commie pinko pantywaist boy. No relatively normal human being would purposely do that to another human being while wearing skates... especially in front of thousands of witnesses.
Geez, if it can be shown that there was intent to make contact with his skate, then the guy deserves to rot in prison for awhile. What an ugly look for hockey.
Geez, if it can be shown that there was intent to make contact with his skate, then the guy deserves to rot in prison for awhile. What an ugly look for hockey.
It's an ugly professional sport where fans go just to watch the fights. I would hope it's not nearly as violent when it's just recreational but......................... Nope, not a fan. Based on everything I read about the accused: Yeah, he's a thug. As to his intent, the judge or jury will decide.
I did read where Matt Petgrave is being charged with manslaughter for his fatal kick to the neck of Adam Johnson. If Petgrave did have intent, then such a charge is certainly appropriate. They should probably also add assault with a deadly weapon. I didn't see any videos (don't want to watch it) but if they're charging him there must be at least some substance to it. Many sports have equipment that can be used as weapons. Hell, many everyday items can become deadly weapons.
But I have to add some comments here. Like Patrick, I play recreational hockey (I used to play more serious hockey, but I got old). Anyone whose played at any level will likely bristle at the notion that hockey is some kind of blood sport. It is not. No one plays to engage in such idiocy. No actual fans go looking to see fights; if they did, the vast majority of games at any level would leave them very disappointed. Leagues that permit body checking (most rec leagues don't for safety/liability reasons) involve violent body contact, often at speed. So does football. It's part of the game. But to impugn an entire sport based on isolated instances is both ignorant and reactionary. Do you also think people watch NASCAR hoping to see wrecks?
Hockey is a great game; like any activity, it isn't everyone's cup of tea. But if you' re going to voice an opinion, make it an educated one.
It's an ugly professional sport where fans go just to watch the fights. I would hope it's not nearly as violent when it's just recreational but......................... Nope, not a fan. Based on everything I read about the accused: Yeah, he's a thug. As to his intent, the judge or jury will decide.
Rams
I'm with you there. It's boring and difficult to watch. It's fasinating that it actually has fans and professional leagues as the players are the least athletic of all the sports. Even baseball players have a leg up. If you did a comparison, hockey ranks the lowest in intensity, power, agility, coordination, reaction time, speed or strategy. This is ranked by College of Sports Medicine MET scores and by (CGI) complexity game index.
People waste their time on uninteresting things like hockey, but for each their own.
I'm with you there. It's boring and difficult to watch. It's fasinating that it actually has fans and professional leagues as the players are the least athletic of all the sports. Even baseball players have a leg up. If you did a comparison, hockey ranks the lowest in intensity, power, agility, coordination, reaction time, speed or strategy. This is ranked by College of Sports Medicine MET scores and by (CGI) complexity game index.
People waste their time on uninteresting things like hockey, but for each their own.
LOL... gawd you're pathetic. Do you just make up this bullsh!t off the top of your head or what?
As usual, you don't have a freakin' clue what you're talking about. Couldn't you find a brain-dead meme to post, as you do in P&R? Thanks for the laugh though!
For anyone who doesn't waste their time in P&R (good on ya), there are compelling reasons why Wichita has earned this well-deserved nickname there...
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-15-2023).]
I don't think most hockey fans go just to watch the fights but a lot of them go hoping there will be one, just as a lot of race fans go to the track hoping they will get to see a wreck. San Angelo, where i lived in the 90s and very early 20s had a hockey team called San Angelo Outlaws and played in a minor pro league called Western Professional which later became Central Hockey league. All I can say about the 2 games we went to and several that I watched on local tv there, , is every time there was a fight, the fans all cheered and hollered. I was not a big fan of the game itself, but it was a nice diversion from football.
LOL... gawd you're pathetic. Do you just make up this bullsh!t off the top of your head or what?
As usual, you don't have a freakin' clue what you're talking about. Couldn't you find a brain-dead meme to post, as you do in P&R? Thanks for the laugh though!
For anyone who doesn't waste their time in P&R (good on ya), there are compelling reasons why Wichita has earned this well-deserved nickname there...
I disagree with him on hockey, I'm a huge fan of hockey (Caps fan)... but I think you owe him an apology for this...
"Have you ever even watched a hockey game in your whole miserable existence? Maybe stick to the BS you know best... brain-dead memes in P&R"
Now that we know he's being charged for manslaughter... at least offer him an apology if the guy is convicted. You seemed to lash out here to him unprovoked.
Wichita has a condescending attitude in the way that he expresses his ideas and opinions. Sometimes he's not condescending, but those are the exceptions or outliers. He's 97 percent condescending. His remarks here about hockey—and about Canadians—"thugs"—were clearly condescending.
If Wichita had said something along the lines of "I'm not a hockey fan myself. I have these metrics about the athleticism of hockey players," and just kind of left it at that, he wouldn't have crossed over into condescending territory.
And that was only the second of his two condescending remarks.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-16-2023).]
If you did a comparison, hockey ranks the lowest in intensity, power, agility, coordination, reaction time, speed or strategy. This is ranked by College of Sports Medicine MET scores and by (CGI) complexity game index.
Having participated in organized high school baseball, football, and ice hockey, (and hockey beyond that) I tend to agree more with this ranking.
Growing up, I did (competitively on a team) tennis, soccer, track, lacrosse, baseball, skiing (slalom / downhill), and hockey. I could not do hockey... I had a problem stopping, and could never brace myself enough to hit the puck without losing my balance. It was because I was so bad at hockey, that I ended up joining the ski team... hahah... so I guess I can agree with this list.
Now that we know he's being charged for manslaughter... at least offer him an apology if the guy is convicted. You seemed to lash out here to him unprovoked.
An apology for what? Take off the blinders, Todd. Wichita loves to get his little digs in, I responded appropriately. Cry me a river.
quote
Originally posted by rinselberg:
Wichita has a condescending attitude in the way that he expresses his ideas and opinions.
No kidding!
quote
Originally posted by OldGuyinaGT:
Having participated in organized high school baseball, football, and ice hockey, (and hockey beyond that) I tend to agree more with this ranking.
Yep, #2 behind only boxing seems spot on.
Wouldn't you love to see someone who dismisses hockey as the "least athletic of all the sports" try to play it?
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-16-2023).]
An apology for what? Take off the blinders, Todd. Wichita loves to get his little digs in, I responded appropriately. Cry me a river.
I'm politely stating that you allowed your emotions from P&R to carry over here. He made a simple statement that was non-political, and not a dig towards you. He said,
"That hockey player that kicked and killed him has a history of doing stuff like this to other players and officials."
and then you took it up a notch.
I'm simply saying, the dude has been charged, and if they can prove mens rea, then he'll be convicted. So maybe you prematurely jumped down Wichita's back.
I'm politely stating that you allowed your emotions from P&R to carry over here. He made a simple statement that was non-political, and not a dig towards you. He said,
"That hockey player that kicked and killed him has a history of doing stuff like this to other players and officials."
This player does not have "a history of doing stuff like this to other players and officials". There is no history of this player attacking anyone with his skates. I asked Wichita for a link to back up his bogus claim, which of course he couldn't supply. It was then that Wichita himself "took it up a notch".
As I stated previously Todd, take off your blinders... and then actually read what has been presented in this thread. This defending of poor innocent little Wichita is rather nauseating.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-16-2023).]
As I stated previously Todd, take off your blinders... and then actually read what has been presented in this thread.
Look Patrick, I don't hate you, even though you might think I do. But you find yourself in this situation more often than not. I know when we get older we lose patience and just start doing whatever the hell we want. When I was in the DC metro subway with my dad, he was walking between the trains using the emergency doors as if this was something that was totally ok to do. I couldn't believe it, and he just swore in Dutch to brush it off like it was nothing. I'm just saying... what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas... don't bring your P&R-vibes into the T-O/T. Also, I'm not a horse... I don't wear blinders.
[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 11-16-2023).]
Nobody but nobody kicks their skates up high on purpose (except for figure skaters). It's drilled into every kid's head when they learn to skate that the blades are sharp and potentially dangerous. Although I play hockey just recreationally, I've watched thousands upon thousands of televised NHL games since about 1960... and it's very rare that skates ever get up around head level... and it's certainly never done purposely.
I was never a fan of retired NHL player Jeremy Roenick when he played for the Chicago Blackhawks, but I have to concur with what he states in this video. He echoed what I posted earlier about hockey players never intentionally raising their skates... and I sadly also agree with Roenick that it appears Matt Petgrave in this instance made a "very very bad decision"... which ultimately led to the tragic death of Adam Johnson. Hopefully the English courts will sort this all out.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-17-2023).]
A 'very bad decision' is still a decision . He could have decided 'not to' kick his skate up that high. Voluntary or involuntary, it's still manslaughter.
A 'very bad decision' is still a decision . He could have decided 'not to' kick his skate up that high. Voluntary or involuntary, it's still manslaughter.
Yes... and I don't know the legal specifics to where he's being charged, but under common law in the UK, like here... there is a difference between involuntary and voluntary manslaughter. It appears as though he is being charged with [voluntary] manslaughter, which means the prosecution believes it was intentional. Now, I haven't read the specifics, and maybe it says somewhere different... but that's a key point here. They clearly do not think it was gross negligence... which would make it involuntary.
I will take it all back if someone wants to quote me where it says it's involuntary.
Is there a minimum time frame for the use of that term that I'm not aware of?
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:
A 'very bad decision' is still a decision . He could have decided 'not to' kick his skate up that high. Voluntary or involuntary, it's still manslaughter.
Who's saying otherwise?
Before I watched the video of the incident, I suspected it was "just" an accident. However, watching the game video clip put a lot of doubt in my mind... and then listening to several NHL veterans give their opinion, I now unfortunately agree that the charge of manslaughter is totally warranted.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 11-19-2023).]
At the very least you would expect the hockey league would keep him off the ice for a couple of games. Someone did die. Its always been a blood sport. But they should at the least try and look like they give a **** .
At the very least you would expect the hockey league would keep him off the ice for a couple of games.
What, you think he's played since then?
At hockey practice today, we discovered that a fella we know back east through hockey (in Toronto) has actually worked with Matt Petgrave in various off-ice children's charity functions. Apparently this is what Matt Petgrave is known for in the various cities where he's played. This in no way excuses what it appears he did on the ice, but it certainly demonstrates that people can act oh so differently in different situations.
As stated Here, they presented a photo of him on the center ice jumbotron. He probably wasn't even at the arena.
I have to admit that when I first read that article several days ago, I was a bit put off why he'd get a standing ovation from the home town fans. I still think it's a bit weird, but perhaps I can understand it a little more after hearing today that he's heavily involved in charity work off the ice.
quote
Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:
I have nothing against hockey, but it has always been a violent sport.
It most certainly can be violent (along with other team sports such as football, lacrosse, rugby, hurling, etc), but using one's raised skate as a way to impede an opposing players's progress is just... just... unheard of in hockey. I still can't believe the guy actually did that. He's ended one life as well as ruining his own.
Damn, that was such a freak accident.
I guess that's "safer" than calling him a black thug.
Take off the blinders, Todd. Wichita loves to get his little digs in, I responded appropriately. Cry me a river.
