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which would rev faster by BingB
Started on: 12-19-2023 03:09 PM
Replies: 15 (215 views)
Last post by: Zeb on 12-25-2023 01:58 PM
BingB
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Report this Post12-19-2023 03:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BingBSend a Private Message to BingBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I know there are many factors that determine how fast an engine will rev, but all things being as equal as possible would a 2.4 liter four cylinder engine rev faster than a 2.4 liter in line 6?
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Patrick
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Report this Post12-19-2023 05:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:

I know there are many factors that determine how fast an engine will rev, but all things being as equal as possible would a 2.4 liter four cylinder engine rev faster than a 2.4 liter in line 6?


I suspect the lighter, shorter crankshaft and two less reciprocating pistons/con rods of the 4-banger would allow it to rev faster than an inline 6.

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BingB
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Report this Post12-19-2023 07:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BingBSend a Private Message to BingBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
This is way above my tech level, but I also figure the 4.

The individual pistons would be smaller and weigh less in the 6, but overall there is more mass with the longer crank and more moving parts.
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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post12-19-2023 07:40 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:

I know there are many factors that determine how fast an engine will rev, but all things being as equal as possible would a 2.4 liter four cylinder engine rev faster than a 2.4 liter in line 6?



Are we talking about the GM LD9 2.4 Twin Cam? Because that's an awesome engine... or at least, it can be made to be an awesome engine with some very light modifications using stock parts.
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MarkS
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Report this Post12-19-2023 08:18 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MarkSSend a Private Message to MarkSEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Maybe ask a BMW guy. They have both inline 4 & 6's. We have 2 BMW 6 cyl turbos in our stable but no BMW 4cyl. Rotating balance may play into it if only from a vibration standpoint. We've had the BMW 4 cyl in loaner vehicles but were pretty much unimpressed.

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82-T/A [At Work]
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Report this Post12-20-2023 08:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 82-T/A [At Work]Send a Private Message to 82-T/A [At Work]Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BingB:

I know there are many factors that determine how fast an engine will rev, but all things being as equal as possible would a 2.4 liter four cylinder engine rev faster than a 2.4 liter in line 6?



I'd like to add to my original post... just want to better quantify what we mean by rev faster.

Do you mean:

A - The ability for the motor to get up to it's redline more quickly?
B - The ability for the engine to have a higher maximum redline?


For A... to achieve engine rpm more quickly, it largely has to do with reciprocal weight... the less weight of the rotating mass (which includes everything from the flywheel to balancer assembly) allows it to get up to maximum speed more quickly. In this case... it doesn't really matter if the engine is a 4 cyl or a 6 cyl... so long as both rotating assemblies are the same weight (in which case, if they're both 2.4L, then it's probably insignificant).

For B... to achieve a higher engine top speed (redline), it largely has to do with engine balance. An inline 6 cyl engine... all things being the same as the 4 cyl, will have a better balance due to the mass being more equally distributed across the crank. In an L configuration, generally pistons are matched in pairs of 2. That means two go up, two go down. In a 6 cyl engine, you have two up, two down, and two in the middle... which helps distribute the load across the crank.


But again... what it really comes down to is what 2.4 L4 you're talking about, and what 2.4 L6 you're talking about ... as they both may not be built and designed the same.
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Hank is Here
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Report this Post12-20-2023 10:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Hank is HereSend a Private Message to Hank is HereEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
There are too many variables undefined

The largest factor (assuming all others being equal) is....

What is the bore and stroke of both engines? Are these motors square, over square, or undersquare. There are many different ways to get to 2.4L which will have very different effects on rev'ing.
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maryjane
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Report this Post12-20-2023 04:54 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
More interested in which will blow up first...
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Patrick
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Report this Post12-20-2023 06:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
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maryjane
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Report this Post12-20-2023 10:45 PM Click Here to See the Profile for maryjaneSend a Private Message to maryjaneEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
the crankshaft kept turnin long after the thrill of runnin was gone....

I've seen a couple of diesels run away and come from together, one lots bigger than that little popcorn engine.

The worst tho, was a USN 6-71. Small engine room space, with 4 of those N90 injector nozzled 2100rpm screaming Detroits (a pair each on the starboard and Port propellor shaft) and, a 4-71 running a ship's service generator all in the same little low overhead crammed full machinery space. It was noisy even when everything ran right, and HOT.

For whatever reason, one day one half of one of the paired 6-71s took off, dragging the other one's rpm up via the shared gear box.I felt the craft lurch forward too. Closed the air box on the unaffected engine but about that time, the skipper shifted the gear box into N and the bad engine took off over 3200 rpm, gave up the ghost and most of it's internals. There just was no where to hide. Pieces (and HOT Oil) flew everywhere.
I ain't never forgot that one.
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Patrick
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Report this Post12-21-2023 12:42 AM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by maryjane:

There just was no where to hide. Pieces (and HOT Oil) flew everywhere.


...
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BingB
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Report this Post12-21-2023 10:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BingBSend a Private Message to BingBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Hank is Here:

There are too many variables undefined

I have decided this is the answer.

I was just thinking of the weight of the pistons and all the rotational mass, but a 2.4 with a shorter stroke and wider bore is going to rev faster.
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BingB
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Report this Post12-21-2023 10:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BingBSend a Private Message to BingBEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

BingB

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quote
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]:

For B... to achieve a higher engine top speed (redline), it largely has to do with engine balance. An inline 6 cyl engine... all things being the same as the 4 cyl, will have a better balance due to the mass being more equally distributed across the crank. In an L configuration, generally pistons are matched in pairs of 2. That means two go up, two go down. In a 6 cyl engine, you have two up, two down, and two in the middle... which helps distribute the load across the crank. .



I have heard before about an inline six being more balanced but I never understood why. I just thought they would be three up and three down

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ray b
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Report this Post12-23-2023 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ray bSend a Private Message to ray bEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
6 has a natural balance

4 vibrates and higher RPM needs balance shafts

8 are better but 12 is the smoothest

a 6 will live longer then a 4 and rev higher

no load quick RPM is useless unless under load
can be tricked with thing like a super lite flywheel

a 4 has less parts to rub is cheaper so can get better milage

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Patrick
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Report this Post12-23-2023 05:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for PatrickSend a Private Message to PatrickEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

Ray, having said all that... which would rev faster?
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Zeb
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Report this Post12-25-2023 01:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ZebSend a Private Message to ZebEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
All else is never equal in this comparison. That being said, same head design, bore/stroke ratio, the six will have smaller lighter pistons and a shorter stroke. Smaller bore mean smaller lighter valves. All adds up to more revs, quicker.

More pistons mean more piston area for combustion to act on. Means more power to rev quicker.

I'd say the 6 would win by a significant amount. In any racing series, they always use the maximum amount of cylinders.

Rayb is correct, though. 12 cylinders is a practical maximum, beyond that the returns are cancelled by the extra weight.
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