Modern technology can be great, but it can also be a source of unneeded and unnecessary additional problems. Cars today have so many new features that we didn't have before in many cars, but they also provide a source of frustration and reliability issues. I'd say cars ... in so far as getting you from point A to point B are more reliable today than they were many years ago, but there are so many more things on cars that can break which needlessly complicate the other issues. Like the CAN BUS system, which interconnects everything. When one system "wakes," it turns on all the other systems in the car (or pulls them out of sleep mode). Put your key fob too close to the car (like in a dish next to the door with your car parked outside), and it'll kill your battery because it continues to "engage" the key fob and RF system of the car.
The more time goes on, and... especially with this 84 Corvette that I bought for my daughter to work on, I become more and more enamored with simplicity. Innovation and design is excellent... but I think we cut corners today as engineers and err on the side of connectivity, rather than design. I recognize there are some benefits to the inter-connectivity of devices within a car, but why can't they do it a different way?
Take our Fieros, for example...
The car's ECM is completely independent from the gauge cluster. If the gauge cluster fails outright (or the various components of it do), the car will still run and drive. If your radio fails, you can still drive your car. In my 1997 Grand Am GT back in the day. If you disconnected the gauge cluster... the CAN-BUS system was dead... failed to communicate and couldn't start.
This 84 Corvette that we got (for cheap I might add)... it has some miles on it, but it was an innovative marvel at the time. Lots of new technology. It has an LCD color screen (multiple ones) for various things... mostly to make you feel like you're in a space shuttle or something... and lots of other really cool modern features too. But again... everything is separate.
My wife's Ford Edge Titanium had a dead battery. The liftgate motor failed, which then caused a draw, which then caused the BCM to shut everything down... great. Long story short, because the key fobs haven't fully "re-learned" eachother yet, the fob keeps communicating with the car overnight (because we park the car right outside our back door, and have the key fob in a key dish). It's close enough that the key fob continually communicates with the car's RF system, there-by further draining the battery.
It's ridiculous.
I don't even like modern cars today... there's so much regulation that's forced on car companies, and not for the betterment of the car, but to pacify the insurance lobby. Next year, lane / collision avoidance will be mandatory in all new car platforms that don't already have it. Which means any new cars (on any new platforms from 2026+) will have at least another $1,500 of cost added to them. Why do we put up with this? Why are we OK with this, and why isn't anyone pushing back on this crap? If I want all that **** , I'll buy it, but why am I being forced to have this **** ?
I don't even like modern cars today... there's so much regulation that's forced on car companies, and not for the betterment of the car, but to pacify the insurance lobby. Next year, lane / collision avoidance will be mandatory in all new car platforms that don't already have it. Which means any new cars (on any new platforms from 2026+) will have at least another $1,500 of cost added to them. Why do we put up with this? Why are we OK with this, and why isn't anyone pushing back on this crap? If I want all that **** , I'll buy it, but why am I being forced to have this **** ?
Not to make this political but now you understand why most everyone, including myself, hate the state of California since almost all of these stupid safety and "save the planet" bullshit add-on's are made law by our pathetic state. Then everyone else is lucky enough to inherit our stupidity. That's why I wish I could move but my job keeps me here.
Not to make this political but now you understand why most everyone, including myself, hate the state of California since almost all of these stupid safety and "save the planet" bullshit add-on's are made law by our pathetic state. Then everyone else is lucky enough to inherit our stupidity. That's why I wish I could move but my job keeps me here.
This is definitely true for emissions, but the preponderance of all the "**** " on our cars is as a direct result of the insurance lobby... which all our politicians are totally guilty of.
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Another thing about shitty new stuff. In order to charge this brand new battery that died again because of the drain... I had to go through ALL of my battery chargers. Turns out I have like 6 of them. Two trickle chargers, and 4 battery chargers. I couldn't get ANY of them to charge the battery. The ONLY one that allowed me to actually charge it, is one that I got from my grandfather that looks like it's from the 1960s. You plug that ***** in and you get a loud hum... and it immediately starts charging the battery. Most of the chargers have some kind of fail-safe to prevent a battery from overcharging, or NOT charging it when it doesn't detect any voltage at all. But at least one of them, I bought specifically because it had a manual mode (which is generally not allowed and it had tons of warning signs on the box). But this 1960s space-looking steel battery charger was the ONLY one that actually worked.
So damned frustrating... I'm pissed that almost everything we own today is in some way shittier than what we had before. Look... most of you guys know me, many personally... you know where I've worked. I'm not out of date... I'm generally on the bleeding edge of technology. I am just so frustrated that so much of today's stuff is bull **** . A toaster does not need a Linux "busy-box" distro installed on it. A microwave does not need a microprocessor, my toothbrush does not need 15 cleaning modes.
So damned frustrating... I'm pissed that almost everything we own today is in some way shittier than what we had before. Look... most of you guys know me, many personally... you know where I've worked. I'm not out of date... I'm generally on the bleeding edge of technology. I am just so frustrated that so much of today's stuff is bull **** . A toaster does not need a Linux "busy-box" distro installed on it. A microwave does not need a microprocessor, my toothbrush does not need 15 cleaning modes.
Everything runs full circle and thats the crappy part. The older people have to suffer just to get back to simplicity and stuff that truly works without added garbage. Here's an example:
1. Computer gets invented 2. Laptop gets invented since you can't haul a 40lb pc around town 3. Laptop with touchscreen so now no keyboard and it's thinner/lighter 4. Tablets take over laptops 5. Cell phones take over tablets. 6. People start bitching they can't see eveything on cell phones. 7. Cell phone companies invent double and now triple screens so now we're back to tablet size. 8. Companies see the change and re-invent their laptops to be thinner. Sales are booming.
So we went full circle all the way back to laptops now and I still use a home computer with 32" monitors. Society needed to EXPERIENCE the changes to realize they weren't good and go backwards.
True story. My 2005 Silverado was plagued with a random electrical gremlins, on and off, for... over a year? The cooling fan would randomly refuse to shut off. Or it would stay on at odd times. Battery died at least once. Probably because of the fan. I'll get back to this one. Read on.
I also had a 2004 Trailblazer that I inherited from my wife when she got her Honda van. Since I wanted to have something other than the FM radio or CDs (Who carries CDs around any more?) I installed an iPod adapter. It plugs in between the car's radio harness and the stock radio. One morning it wouldn't start. Random things wouldn't come on. Or wouldn't turn off. Half of the electrical stuff worked. Half of it was off in la-la land. I replaced the ignition switch, because that was the most logical (hah!) thing. No change. I messed with this thing for about three days. I was almost ready to order a new BCM, because that's kind of where the logic (hah! again) was taking me. But I was getting ready to take the radio out and dive into the dash, first. I had the radio unbolted from the dash. For some reason I bumped the radio back into position, and all of the sudden everything came to life. All the electrical stuff worked. Engine started. And on and on... So... the issue was a poor connection on the CANBUS where it connected to the radio. Obviously it didn't like the iPod adapter. (I'm thinking corrosion on the contacts in the connector were noising up the data bus.) I removed it and put the radio back like it was. Never had another moments trouble, as long as I had it.
Back to the Silverado... The random electrical gremlins came and went. The last thing I noticed was that the instruments didn't turn off when I turned off the ignition and removed the key. I think the fan was running, too. You guessed it. THAT radio also had an iPod adapter. Similar functionality but different brand. I snatched that SOB out and put the radio back "stock". Never had any more issues with THAT vehicle either. Why run the CANBUS through the freakin' radio, anyway? They'll say it's for theft prevention, but what a freaking pain in the ass. It doesn't help that if you ever want to swap factory radios around, you have to take it to the dealer to have the old VIN removed from the radio before it will work in the new car.
And don't even get me started on the bullshit that Chrysler vehicles perpetrate upon their customers. You can't just install a piece of hardware, like a trailer brake controller. You then have to go to a dealer and pay them to turn on that option. (Fortunately, there's an app for that. ) But it goes waaaaay deeper than that. I'll stop here.
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 11-04-2024).]
Got a call the other day, robot saying its time for our car's maintenance, do they know our car's mileage? I think they do. Hafta check what data they collect...
My daughter's car is throwing a code which suggests she needs a new canister purge valve selinoid. Auto Zone wants $109.00 for one. Am I right thinking back in the 70's and 80' we cars depended on a canister only ?
I'm with you on the mandates of shoving tech down our throats! If some out there are incapable of operating a vehicle maybe they should pursue alternatives. Look, there are many industrial equipment operators, fields where if these folks weren't paying attention to the tasks at hand could have drastic consequences. In short they can keep Government Motors. I'll drive my rides!
Cliffw as far as what's wrong with you're daughters car I'm not sure. I have had success with UPFIX.com
A small confession I hate the autofill...
[This message has been edited by Stingray92 (edited 11-03-2024).]
Originally posted by cliffw: My daughter's car is throwing a code which suggests she needs a new canister purge valve solinoid. Auto Zone wants $109.00 for one. Am I right thinking back in the 70's and 80' we cars depended on a canister only ?
A canister purge valve solenoid from Auto Zone is $119.00. AT Amazon, $24.59, . Rock Auto, $81.79. Ebay, $18.99 or $41.66.
The same code could mean multiple things. Down to the gas cap.
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Next year, lane / collision avoidance will be mandatory in all new car platforms that don't already have it. Which means any new cars (on any new platforms from 2026+) will have at least another $1,500 of cost added to them. Why do we put up with this? Why are we OK with this, and why isn't anyone pushing back on this crap? If I want all that **** , I'll buy it, but why am I being forced to have this **** ?
I very much like a lot of the technology that seems like bloat, but this crap...if I could light folks on fire with my mind the inventor of the nonsense that sees half the shadows I drive over as a lane departure would be high on my list. Less than worthless technology the way it was done in our Pilot.
Todd, I am totally with you on getting fedup with modern cars and auto engineering. With these CAN BUS systems I am not sure why every component and sensor need to be encoded to the associated control modules. Sure some components need to be calibrated when installed but why encoded?
I hope that some manufacturer decides to built a simple/reliable car again following a minimum viable product strategy to meet regualtions and then go one step further and allow right to repair by users to troubleshoot the vehicle/software. Surprisingly I got a rental Mitsubishi a while ago it was simple...just not sure about long time reliability.
I do like the ethos that Edison motors is developing for the PHEV's in the vocational truck market to the point that I am considering making a notable investment.
Long and short, the battery died again. So I got a new battery, and am leaving it unplugged, and will take it to the Ford dealership tomorrow. There's something killing the battery, some sort of electrical draw, not from a relay, but the entire CANBUS system keeps turning on and staying on... no idea why. So, my wife has been driving my Ford Explorer so she can get to work, and so then I needed a car.
I had to revive my Crown Victoria from the depths of the garage's furthest bay, and get it started. It was my grandfather's 2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX that I inherited back in 2004, and I take it with me everywhere I move, but it basically sits in the garage. Every time I move, I have to buy new tires because they're totally flat-spotted. Anyway, I went to a small family reunion at my parents from Sunday through this morning, and had to jump the Crown Victoria over the weekend, get a new battery, and then bleed the rear brakes the night before I left. The Crown Vic hadn't been started since may of 2022. The battery was completely dead, but still covered under warranty. I had a car cover over it, and tons of stuff sitting on the trunk and roof... like a Fiero dash, and a bunch of other stuff. Kind of ridiculous. But I was amazed... the car started RIGHT up once we got a battery in it. It literally hadn't run in over a year and a half, and it started right up once we jumped it.
I did nothing except bleed the brakes and fill up the tires... and drive it all the way to The Villages. The tires had flat-spots, of course... (ugh... again), so I couldn't drive over 60... but it was pretty pimp.
But I am looking forward to getting my Explorer back. I would try to figure out what's draining the battery in her Ford Edge... I just don't feel like dealing with it...
It's truly absurd the kind of things that manufacturers are putting in cars now. If you connect your phone to Bluetooth in your car, you can kiss any hope of privacy goodbye. Your phone has certain settings and security measures that prevent your personal information from being read by companies and such, but your car has no such clauses. In fact, when you buy a new car, you essentially sign a Terms and Conditions list that allows the manufacturer to obtain information about your age, race, religion, sexuality, emails and messages that you send and receive, and more. Furthermore, they can collect driving data and forward that to insurance companies, who then alter their rates. And it's only going to get worse from here.
Early 2000's stuff & the advent of that planet saving idea of RoHS..lead free solder & pure tin SOT leads...oh crap, tin whiskers & the resulting shorts...s'ok we're saving the planet. Took a while for them to figure that out. As a manufacturer of devices for the military, they insist on lead content in a lot of the flight critical stuff.
[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 12-06-2024).]
Early 2000's stuff & the advent of that planet saving idea of RoHS..lead free solder & pure tin SOT leads...oh crap, tin whiskers & the resulting shorts...s'ok we're saving the planet. Took a while for them to figure that out. As a manufacturer of devices for the military, they insist on lead content in a lot of the flight critical stuff.
At least you can still buy leaded solder on Amazon. At least you could the last time I bought any. Been a couple of years.
At least you can still buy leaded solder on Amazon. At least you could the last time I bought any. Been a couple of years.
Thankfully, Kester 44 ('merican) tin lead is still available at most vendors like Digikey & Mouser. Silver bearing SN 62 is my go-to. But 1lb of that will set you back a bit. SN63 with no silver is easier on the pocket.
My daughter's car is throwing a code which suggests she needs a new canister purge valve selinoid. Auto Zone wants $109.00 for one. Am I right thinking back in the 70's and 80' we cars depended on a canister only ?
IF, I remember correctly, the purge valve was much simpler in the 70s/80s and usually sat right on the canister itself.
It's truly absurd the kind of things that manufacturers are putting in cars now. If you connect your phone to Bluetooth in your car, you can kiss any hope of privacy goodbye. Your phone has certain settings and security measures that prevent your personal information from being read by companies and such, but your car has no such clauses. In fact, when you buy a new car, you essentially sign a Terms and Conditions list that allows the manufacturer to obtain information about your age, race, religion, sexuality, emails and messages that you send and receive, and more. Furthermore, they can collect driving data and forward that to insurance companies, who then alter their rates. And it's only going to get worse from here.
I wonder what kind of information they're collecting from my Crown Victoria, Fiero, or 80s Corvette? Hahah...
I think the only car we have that can transmit, our Ford Edge. My 2009 Ford Explorer has Microsoft Sync, and a microphone built in... but I've not detected any signals emanating from the car. Not even standard WiFi channels. I only get a BlueTooth request for a phone that my dad doesn't have anymore (it used to be his car).
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: I wonder what kind of information they're collecting from my Crown Victoria, Fiero, or 80s Corvette? Hahah...
I think the only car we have that can transmit, our Ford Edge. My 2009 Ford Explorer has Microsoft Sync, and a microphone built in... but I've not detected any signals emanating from the car. Not even standard WiFi channels. I only get a BlueTooth request for a phone that my dad doesn't have anymore (it used to be his car).
My '18 Colorado is a hot spot which is pretty handy from time to time. I keep a small laptop in the truck with a car power adapter. No question "they" are harvesting info from the vehicle but they can do the same with your cellphone I guess. So far, I haven't been arrested or insanely over charged for insurance due to my 150lb right foot but you never know!
BTW, It is now Christmas season- the Christmas Pixie is back!
[This message has been edited by MarkS (edited 12-09-2024).]
My '18 Colorado is a hot spot which is pretty handy from time to time. I keep a small laptop in the truck with a car power adapter. No question "they" are harvesting info from the vehicle but they can do the same with your cellphone I guess. So far, I haven't been arrested or insanely over charged for insurance due to my 150lb right foot but you never know!
BTW, It is now Christmas season- the Christmas Pixie is back!
This probably borders on needing to go into the Politics & Religion section... but it doesn't have anything to do with Right or Left politics, so here goes...
The automotive insurance lobby is extremely powerful... and there are only a few organizations that exist to fight it, like the SEMA ACTION NETWORK. For decades... I mean, DECADES... like, going back to the early 1970s... the insurance lobby has been directly responsible for lobbying our local and Federal governments (US and Canada) to intentionally alter the way vehicles are made, SPECIFICALLY to reduce payouts. For example... the change in bumper designs in 1973... (5 mph impact bumpers). That wasn't for pedestrian safety, that was to limit insurance payouts.
There were dozens more. Reducing engine compression from what people had at the time (often times over 10:1) down to 8.5 was to reduce horsepower to limit accidents caused by people speeding... again, to limit payouts. Then again, changing the speedometer so that 85mph was the fastest that was displayed... that was again, to prevent people from speeding to limit accidents to limit payouts.
Plastic headlights, the elimination of pop-up lights, making hatch glass illegal in all but truck-based vehicles... all these things were done because of the insurance lobby. It's completely destroyed the automotive industry. Cars are so expensive, and they honestly all look like **** today.
Any time I sit at an intersection, and I look at the cars around me, I'm shocked at how shitty all the cars look. They're horrible... almost every car out there looks like a Buick cross-over, which looks like a Rav-4, which looks like a Mazda 6, which looks like a Porsche Cayenne...
If things don't change soon, it'll be effectively illegal (or completely impossible) to drive a classic car (or anything that doesn't conform to today's standards) on today's roads.
Any time I sit at an intersection, and I look at the cars around me, I'm shocked at how shitty all the cars look. They're horrible... almost every car out there looks like a Buick cross-over, which looks like a Rav-4, which looks like a Mazda 6, which looks like a Porsche Cayenne...
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I agree 100%, in my world a proper automobile has 2 doors and 3 pedals.
My toy car is an 88 and my daily is an 06 Tiburon coupe, 5 speed manual. It has personality plus and is way fun to drive. With a bit of luck it will be my last car.
) But it goes waaaaay deeper than that. I'll stop here.
. Rock Auto, $81.79. Ebay, $18.99 or $41.66.
Took a while for them to figure that out. As a manufacturer of devices for the military, they insist on lead content in a lot of the flight critical stuff.
