The fact that you took is personal is what I think Toddster is playing on.
no doubt. here's my observation:
if todd, or anyone else, had simply said "you were out of line", then this whole thing wouldn't have gone so far. but todd chose to escalate, as he perceived me to have escalated. and i think his original "we're sorry you were raped by your uncle" was really just his way of being a leveled-up jerk. despite all his bulldogging, i don't think he believes it any more than anyone else here. it was a throwaway line, meant to insult. but when he was challenged on it, being who he is - which is to say, vastly insecure - he had to dig in his heels and bring his full OCD mindset to bear on holding what was, at the outset, clearly an absurd position.
unfortunately for him, i don't give an inch in situations like this, which has forced him to pretty much exhaust his tactical manual. which leaves us on this sad little merry-go-round where we now find ourselves.
Originally posted by 84fierotrevor: ok serious question, what the hell are you doing out of the kitchen????
Good call, lurker!
quote
Originally posted by lurker: pay no attention to trevor, he's just stirring the pot. as he said he would on the "evil" forum, if he fails to get a response, he may escalate.
Todd I know. I know him, I know his family. We do business together and we recreate with our hobbies. We disagree on many things political and never once has it ever become heated or anything close to the kind of crap that happens with other people. I think it must be a two way street for the shiit to hit the fan. So when I see Todd and others getting into it I figure they are both guilty of being dumb asses and I cry no fault. I believe he wastes his time caring while I don't care but maybe that's why we get along just fine. For the most part I agree with a lot of his general premises though and on many things we agree completely. For instance we pretty much both think Euterpe has issues with men and a superiority complex.
What I see here is a lot different. Todd has Euterpe pegged and while I have no proof and don't claim to know anything I can say my opinion is pretty close to what he errantly says is fact. Who knows what her damn problem is? While she has made me laugh by pointing out some stupid comment or logic some one posts she is just a bully with some kind of complex. I can't remember but I think I thought that after her first or second post and may have commented then.She must hurt a lot inside to not even care how she treats others. Something must have damaged her to enable her to use her education and talents to belittle others instead of helping them.
This is as un biased as I can really be seeing as I have no other knowlege of Euterpe. Todd is being to aggressive and is treating this as a war that must be won at all costs and I disagree with his line of attack but not the reasons he has for them.
Todd .. However likely she has issues you can't say she has been raped and this is what caused her obvious problems. There are so many other things in a persons life that can lead to generating a person like her. It is just unreasonable to state that as fact. This line of attack will not succeed and it isn't right anyway. I know you know the only time to resort to a level beneath yourself is when you have exhausted all other resources and it must be done. She just is not a battle that needs to be fought. Those that would choose to follow a bully deserve their lot and you need not champion them. I believe you are getting to caught up. This is damaging to you while she has nothing to lose to begin with. Publicly state it is your opinion based on whatever and continue to hate her superior guts and stop wasting energy on this. Spend that energy getting that loan company to work with us instead. Then while we are spending our loot from the sale on a ridiculously expensive dinner we can raise a glass in honor of her.
Euterpe ... Quit this freaking thread. You deserve any abuse you get just for being an obstinate bit ch all the time. That's all I know about you so that's all you get. Don't worry it was free.
All just advice from a forum member who would rather not see so many people he knows personally getting pissy at each other. You both get an all important one notch down on the rating bar. Unfortunately for one of you you were not rated so one notch down from neutral. I do this in jest because I am not much into rating.
Euterpe please excuse my spelling and sentence structure. I'm not that smart and I was lost in a public school system not to mention I'm so tired I can't keep a thought in my head or keep my eyes open.
BTW Nice post Nick.
------------------ Agent 99: Oh, Max, how terrible. Maxwell Smart: He desereved it, 99. He was a Kaos killer. Agent 99: Sometimes I wonder if we're any better, Max. Maxwell Smart: What are you talking about, 99? We have to shoot and kill and destroy. We represent everything that's wholesome and good in the world.
Todd I know. I know him, I know his family. We do business together and we recreate with our hobbies. We disagree on many things political and never once has it ever become heated or anything close to the kind of crap that happens with other people. I think it must be a two way street for the shiit to hit the fan.
i have no doubt that in person, todd is very different... far less likely to deliberately misrepresent everything you say, far less prone to blithe generalizations, and far less committed to converting his every off-the-cuff put-down and rampant speculation to an assertion of established fact, ultimately painting himself into inextricable rhetorical corners.
but the fact is that he himself does exactly what he has accused me of. he uses the internet as a screen from behind which to project an oz-like potency, without real risk to his self-image.
i won't speculate deeply on his private life or personal demons - though he has provided more than substantial material for it - but here, he is a martinet... and those beloved ratings bars, his epaulettes, now tarnished.
Toddster has repeatedly stated how many supportive PMs he has gotten and how much greener his bar has gotten. We'll believe him on this as we have no way to confirm it.
But if so many people support him, why no supporters in this thread? Could it be that his supporters are secretly ashamed of their attitude and won't publicly admit it? There are some posters who critisize both sides and some that critisize Toddster. But very few that critisize Eurterpe. And those that do are still against the rape fiction from Toddster.
If Toddster's opinion is so popular and there is no fear of red-barring, why all the mystery about who actually supports him?
Originally posted by Steve Normington: If Toddster's opinion is so popular and there is no fear of red-barring, why all the mystery about who actually supports him?
I suspect that most people are afraid to comment in public.
Trust me when I tell you, when you defend the unpopular side of the argument, you get your nose bloody.
[This message has been edited by fierobear (edited 02-26-2007).]
Wow, can I have my 10 Minutes back now. Hmm, I see a thread tossed in the trash but I don't see any green colored Fieros... How about we turn this into a bald babe thread: Ilia famous line: "I would never take advantage of a sexually immature species"
You're disappointed in ME, Todd? All this ranting about standing on your convictions and doing what's right, and you dare to sit there and be disappointed in me for standing on my convictions? Worse, you chastise me for refusing to look the other way when you insult one of my convictions because you helped me out a few years ago? I'm supposed to comprimise my principles just because you did me a favor? I can't believe you would think so little of me. I'm standing on a very simple conviction here: right vs. wrong. Regardless of how Euterpe acts on the forum, what you have said is WRONG. LIBEL is wrong and, more than that, it is a CRIME. You have no evidence to support your claim, only a heavily-biased and apparently bigoted opinion that you have combined with a absurd "ability" to psychoanalyze a person via their posts on an internet car forum. For someone who claims to be so well-educated, and a Psych Minor no less, I would think that you would know a LOGICAL FALLACY when you see one. You can't make up facts, Todd, your opinion means as much as anyone else's in this thread, jack **** . Opinion ≠ Fact, end of story. I don't care how many people you've "read" over the years, you're still wrong. If I were to "read" you based soley on your posts in this thread, I'd have a terrible opinion of you, but I've met you in person many times and I know you're not like this. No one is the same on the internet as they are in person. There is no "reading" people through the internet. Its all text, there's no inflection, no body language, no nothing. Its just words on a screen. I find it incredibly presumptuous and downright arrogant that you would think you could psychoanalyze someone through words on a computer screen.
Also, Hugh is one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. He is anything but a troll, and if he has a problem with you, its well-founded.
Finally, I'm still waiting for Todd's secret cheerleading squad to make themselves known. As of right now, they're all still spineless bitches.
This is good stuff. I notice yello-belly has retracted his original comments.
quote
Originally posted by yello86se:
UGH, now that her is head bald, not only would I not lay her, I couldnt let her suck on mystick,. Any girl that I face F******* , has to have hair,, I woudl feel a bald spot and that is a no no..
Man, she has to know she is pure trailer trash by now... Maybe she got lice...
Pot, meet Kettle... Those who live in glass houses... etc etc.
quote
Originally posted by Euterpe:
did a local glacier thaw out, or something? there seems to be a neanderthal in the neighborhood.
i always wonder why pathetic shitwads like this are so quick to call a woman "trailer trash," as if the queen of frickin' sheba were on her knees, eager to fellate him.
besides, i don't see why a bald head would be such a turn off to an imbecile like this... it would feel just like the only thing he ever does touch, when he gets off.
Touche!
quote
Originally posted by yello86se:
Euterpe,,
You do not know me, so I will pretend not to care about you....and if you did know me, you would be the first to not make a comment like this.
Euterpe-If you get off being sucked by animlas, ok for you, I prefer women not bald ones...
And as far as trailer trash,,, she is not far from being another anna nicole...
Euterpe- you got a problem with me,,, take it to PM ..
Oi... "....and if you did know me, you would be the first to not make a comment like this." I think shes got your number, pal.
quote
Originally posted by Euterpe:
take it to PM? chickenshit. my problem with you belongs right out here in the open.
bald women are women, guccione. sometimes beautiful women. sometimes not, but no less women, and no more simply pieces of meat for you to push your worthless tool into.
the irony, of course, is that while you're calling her "trailer trash", she's the one who - being rich, famous, and a well-known sex symbol - is in the position of turning you down... though why any woman at all would want a sweaty lump like you snuffling between her legs is beyond me.
Touche, part deux
The thread continues on-topic with everyone laughing it of and letting it blow by... a total non-issue. But... on page 2, much too late for anyone to really care, in comes the self-appointed Forum Cop
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
Correction, your "problem with MEN"....blah blah blah
Look Eutwerpe, we are all sorry you were raped by your uncle as a child and we are all saddened by your need, as a result, to substitute emotional stability and a sense of personal empowerment with intellectual assualt and battery. But you don't fool anyone here and you are not going to make a point about the real problem of misogyny by calling men who find disfunctional bald women unattractive names, so knock it off.
At this point in the thread, this has to be the most infantile post yet. Gotta love how this self-centered anal-retentive feels he can speak for one and all here. Although no one else had an issue with the previous confrontation, it wasnt good enough for Mr Todd. Oh, no. He had to dump a festering pile right in the middle of everything and it was this, and only this, that put the thread in the can. Feeling proud, Mr Todd? Your nanny-like posture here sickens me more than anything yello has ever posted... and this wasnt the first time for him.
Euterpe... my mother would be proud. Very proud. Back in the day, it wasnt acceptable for women to speak out, save for within small circles of close friends. I was raised with the same views you hold and I wholeheartedly support you, your voice, and your right to speak it. I believe it was Steve Normington that quoted some of your posts from various political threads. I was captivated with your depth of thought and your ability to call out those of shallow nature to make them THINK for once. The only problem I see here is Mr Todd. IMNSHO, he has lemming'd the last ounce of credibility he had and is in dire need of analysis and proper medication. Most definately, a brief moratorium on posting until he has collected himself and constructed an apology to this forum, and to you, for his actions and defamation upon your person.
[This message has been edited by FieroMojo (edited 02-26-2007).]
You're disappointed in ME, Todd? All this ranting about standing on your convictions and doing what's right, and you dare to sit there and be disappointed in me for standing on my convictions? Worse, you chastise me for refusing to look the other way when you insult one of my convictions because you helped me out a few years ago? I'm supposed to comprimise my principles just because you did me a favor? I can't believe you would think so little of me. I'm standing on a very simple conviction here: right vs. wrong. Regardless of how Euterpe acts on the forum, what you have said is WRONG. LIBEL is wrong and, more than that, it is a CRIME. You have no evidence to support your claim, only a heavily-biased and apparently bigoted opinion that you have combined with a absurd "ability" to psychoanalyze a person via their posts on an internet car forum. For someone who claims to be so well-educated, and a Psych Minor no less, I would think that you would know a LOGICAL FALLACY when you see one. You can't make up facts, Todd, your opinion means as much as anyone else's in this thread, jack **** . Opinion ≠ Fact, end of story. I don't care how many people you've "read" over the years, you're still wrong. If I were to "read" you based soley on your posts in this thread, I'd have a terrible opinion of you, but I've met you in person many times and I know you're not like this. No one is the same on the internet as they are in person. There is no "reading" people through the internet. Its all text, there's no inflection, no body language, no nothing. Its just words on a screen. I find it incredibly presumptuous and downright arrogant that you would think you could psychoanalyze someone through words on a computer screen.
Also, Hugh is one of the nicest people I've ever had the pleasure of meeting. He is anything but a troll, and if he has a problem with you, its well-founded.
Finally, I'm still waiting for Todd's secret cheerleading squad to make themselves known. As of right now, they're all still spineless bitches.
Excelent post. It stings a bit, dunnit? I find this whole thing quite telling of his real nature beyond the mask he wears.
[This message has been edited by FieroMojo (edited 02-26-2007).]
Originally posted by DemonDriver1: I do not understand the outrage you have about his comment?
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck right
Im guessing he went to school, maybe college. A friday night of drinking and partying Ive had 2 queens of sheba. Im thinking this is what he was referring to.
The fact that you took is personal is what I think Toddster is playing on.
Do you know what yellow84se's comment was? Because it looks like he removed his comment on 02/24. Since I preserved his comment, you can still see it in all its glory:
quote
UGH, now that her is head bald, not only would I not lay her, I couldnt let her suck on mystick,. Any girl that I face F******* , has to have hair,, I woudl feel a bald spot and that is a no no..
Man, she has to know she is pure trailer trash by now... Maybe she got lice...
I wonder why yellow86se felt the need to remove his comment?
You WILL stop insulting people Euterpe or I will ride you like I'm sitting on glue.
I will quote again my VERY FIRST post on this subject just so you know that I will not let you change the subject, "KNOCK IT OFF".
How nice... an internet threat of stalking. Just quoting this little gem for those keeping score.
As an aside, I will quote again his VERY FIRST post on this subject, just to show how he stands just as guilty...
quote
Originally posted by Toddster:
Correction, your "problem with MEN"....blah blah blah
Look Eutwerpe, we are all sorry you were raped by your uncle as a child and we are all saddened by your need, as a result, to substitute emotional stability and a sense of personal empowerment with intellectual assualt and battery. But you don't fool anyone here and you are not going to make a point about the real problem of misogyny by calling men who find disfunctional bald women unattractive names, so knock it off.
I dont think I have to spell it out for you... you catch the phonetic content, I'm sure.
Once again, Pot/Kettle... Glass Houses/Stones... et.al.
I wonder why yellow86se felt the need to remove his comment?
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but maybe he had a change of heart, perhaps realized he had done wrong? If that's the case, wouldn't quoting someone for the purpose of not "letting them off the hook" so to speak be no different than what folks are accusing Todd of doing?
Originally posted by Steve Normington: But if so many people support him, why no supporters in this thread? Could it be that his supporters are secretly ashamed of their attitude and won't publicly admit it? There are some posters who critisize both sides and some that critisize Toddster. But very few that critisize Eurterpe. And those that do are still against the rape fiction from Toddster.
If Toddster's opinion is so popular and there is no fear of red-barring, why all the mystery about who actually supports him?
I usualy make it a point to stay away from these kind of threads, This will probably get me some negs, but I have to say someting. Todd's actions in this thread are just wrong, so wrong infact that Iv'e changed a + that I gave him in the past to a -. I know that in the grand scheme of things with as many ratings as Todd has it won't make much difference, but it was something I felt I needed to do.
I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but maybe he had a change of heart, perhaps realized he had done wrong? If that's the case, wouldn't quoting someone for the purpose of not "letting them off the hook" so to speak be no different than what folks are accusing Todd of doing?
If you had actually read every word in that post, you would have understood the intent. Steve was simply clarifying the 'seed' from which this all sprouted for someone whos post appeared misguided, if not totally lost on the subject. It wouldnt have happened like that had yello not retracted his original statement, for whatever reason. Retract as he might, its been well preserved in quotes. I dont see this 'hook' you speak of.
Originally posted by fierobear: I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but maybe he had a change of heart, perhaps realized he had done wrong? If that's the case, wouldn't quoting someone for the purpose of not "letting them off the hook" so to speak be no different than what folks are accusing Todd of doing?
IMO, they are not the same. I have several reasons.
One, if he had a change of heart, he should have said so and admitted he was wrong. He doesn't owe an apologize to Euterpe or any particular poster in particular, but he should state his change of heart in the appropriate thread. Note that he didn't replace it with something like "I removed this post after thinking it over." or even left it with just a period to make it blank. He left it with a dig against Euterpe.
Two, Toddster is making stuff up (the rape) and using that to attack his opponent. Using yellow86se's own words against him is not the same as making things up about him. If Toddster had used quotes from Euterpe to pick on her posting style and was being critisized for that, then the two situations would be the same.
Third, this thread hasn't been about yellow86se's words ever since Toddster leveled his rape claim. The purpose of me posting yellow86se's words is not to attack him, but to show that Eurterpe's attack on him was not out of the blue.
IMO, they are not the same. I have several reasons.
One, if he had a change of heart, he should have said so and admitted he was wrong. He doesn't owe an apologize to Euterpe or any particular poster in particular, but he should state his change of heart in the appropriate thread. Note that he didn't replace it with something like "I removed this post after thinking it over." or even left it with just a period to make it blank. He left it with a dig against Euterpe.
Two, Toddster is making stuff up (the rape) and using that to attack his opponent. Using yellow86se's own words against him is not the same as making things up about him. If Toddster had used quotes from Euterpe to pick on her posting style and was being critisized for that, then the two situations would be the same.
Third, this thread hasn't been about yellow86se's words ever since Toddster leveled his rape claim. The purpose of me posting yellow86se's words is not to attack him, but to show that Eurterpe's attack on him was not out of the blue.
You previously posted...
quote
Since I preserved his comment, you can still see it in all its glory:
It read like an attack. Bear in mind, I'm not singling you out, or defending yellow's post, I'm just talking about a matter of principle. I've seen this done before, and the intention seems to be one of malice. It doesn't allow someone to delete a post that they no longer want visible, whether they are publically contrite or not.
It read like an attack. Bear in mind, I'm not singling you out, or defending yellow's post, I'm just talking about a matter of principle. I've seen this done before, and the intention seems to be one of malice. It doesn't allow someone to delete a post that they no longer want visible, whether they are publically contrite or not.
One should think before one posts. To prevent things like this from happening in the first place, the edit function should be removed. It makes it way too easy to take a jab at someone and later pull it. What he left in its place is telling as well.
One should think before one posts. To prevent things like this from happening in the first place, the edit function should be removed. It makes it way too easy to take a jab at someone and later pull it. What he left in its place is telling as well.
I'll bet that would prevent a lot of flame wars. But does someone deserver any credit for pulling a negative post?
I'm not yelling or accusing anyone. Just discussing principles.
Originally posted by fierobear: It read like an attack. Bear in mind, I'm not singling you out, or defending yellow's post, I'm just talking about a matter of principle. I've seen this done before, and the intention seems to be one of malice. It doesn't allow someone to delete a post that they no longer want visible, whether they are publically contrite or not.
While it could be done out of malice, it is done using the original poster's own words, it isn't a random attack. There was no selective editing to remove context or change the meaning. It is no different to me than saving a voice mail message where someone was abusive and rude. And once the words are posted, the poster no longer controls the words, they are part of the forum. If yellow86se had mailed those comments in a letter, he'd have less control over his post than he does in PFF.
If he was contrite, then he could ask me (and anyone else that had quoted him) to remove the words. He could do this by PM or by email if he didn't want to publicly apologize. But like I said, I doubt he is contrite in any form.
Finally, if I was bringing these words up in an unrelated thread or continually bringing up these words to harass him, then I could see your point. But the purpose of this was not to attack him, but to provide context for Eutrepe's post. Otherwise those coming in later might not get the true story and would only see her response.
Originally posted by Steve Normington: If he was contrite, then he could ask me (and anyone else that had quoted him) to remove the words. He could do this by PM or by email if he didn't want to publicly apologize. But like I said, I doubt he is contrite in any form.
Finally, if I was bringing these words up in an unrelated thread or continually bringing up these words to harass him, then I could see your point. But the purpose of this was not to attack him, but to provide context for Eutrepe's post. Otherwise those coming in later might not get the true story and would only see her response.
I have no doubt that in person, Todd is very different... far less likely to deliberately misrepresent everything you say, far less prone to blithe generalizations, and far less committed to converting his every off-the-cuff put-down and rampant speculation to an assertion of established fact, ultimately painting himself into inextricable rhetorical corners.
The fact is that he himself does exactly what he has accused me of. He uses the Internet as a screen from behind which to project an oz-like potency, without real risk to his self-image.
I won't speculate deeply on his private life or personal demons - though he has provided more than substantial material for it - but here, he is a martinet... and those beloved ratings bars, his epaulets, now tarnished.
Are you different in person? Do you fit the bill you have written about him? How many people on this forum have you put down/ I don't see them here looking for any retribution against you. Maybe they are not the horrible schmucks you constantly accuse them to be after all. You are mean and degrading because you have a problem. Do you help anyone?
Todd has his moments to be sure and I don't agree with his demeanor at times but lets add the score up. Todd's intentions are not to be mean for no other reason than self satisfaction. He helps people with the car problems,life problems and financial interests. Now I can't speculate accurately about you in person(off forum) so I won't but Todd I can. Off the Forum he helps anyone that needs it even if they are Democrat or the much feared liberal. I have never heard of him doing anything shady and has the utmost integrity in his affairs(I give exception to political threads online). This counts for something I think.
This whole rape thing is a mistake but as far as I'm concerned he has a lot more to fall back on than you do. No one seems to know you. You are not helpful for the most part. Also you are a relative nu-be that just jumps in guns blazing intimidating whoever you can.
I would bet you act like this in real life to some extent and I believe a large extent but maybe not. I couldn't know for sure. You don't score very well in my book. If I never read another post from you I think it would improve things ever so slightly and for Todd I can't say the same even with his mistake(rape=fact). After all his accusation is just a touchy subject but really not any worse than you calling everybody else stupid. In the beginning and in the end this is between you and Todd. You're just trying to ride an easy wave with nothing to lose. Maybe this crap wouldn't happen if people would just be the same on the forum as they would in person. I'm a jerk in person so I try and be a tad nicer here.
How can you defend the indefenseable?It doesn't matter how nice someone is in person,quite a few of the people that read this forum and belong to this forum take exception to his remarks.What would his reaction be if someone made those accusations to a female in his family.You can bet he would be damn mad,and rightfully so.Let me quote you:"This whole rape thing is a mistake".You got that right!!!What I believe it does is show his real character.Being new is something everyone does at one time or another,what does that have to do with anything?Another quote:"After all his accustion is just a touchy subject but really not any worse than you calling everybody else stupid" I would rather be called stupid than called liar,which is what toddster did to Euterpe every time he claimed there was a rape. Another quote:"I'm a jerk in person so I try to be a tad nicer here".You're a jerk here too,keep trying!
