Originally posted by Pyrthian: why ya think they are sooo bent on dyno sheets? and - even more important - why they never actualy want to race - just see dyno sheets. does that not taste funny to anyone? no races - just the sheets. try and figure that one out. I know why. but, I'll let y'all stew on that. because really - the race is what counts.
Do you even look to the left to see where people are from? What are the chances I'm going to drive 3 days to race someone? Not very likely. I do race my cars, here in Alberta. I can post up time slips and compare them to anyone.
This is me racing my GTR. Auto x
Drag Strip
Suppose you have time slips and pictures of you at the track?
[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 03-18-2008).]
maybe not in the fiero community but in other racing circles, subaru for example. the venders go out of their way to blow everyone out of the water in races. why? because it gets them a lot of business when people see how fast they can make a car go.
Sure, but they're doing that for advertising and budgeting it as such. Go up to a vendor you've never met before, tell him his products suck and to come race you to prove his stuff doesn't suck and see how warm a reception you'll get.
I know - call Mallet and tell him how much his LS7 Solstice swap sucks. All he's doing is shoving V8s in Pontiac 2 seaters, like Archie. Post on his websites how much his cars suck, and send him some profanity laced emails talking trash. Troll the internet for anyone who has one of his cars and talk trash and make fun of them. Then show up and demand he race you in a Fiero you built for $1000 to prove his cars aren't crap. Oh, and tell him he'll have to come out to your local track at his own expense and the race is just for "bragging rights."
time archie has invested into this thread > time he spends making his product better
agree or disagree?
This is more accurate.
DH's mind is < than his mouth.
I better get this in before you leave here.
How about this "Epic Own" You're going to see this one everytime you put your mouth in motion before putting your mind in gear.
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.
quote
Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up.
Archie
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon: On the otherhand, knowing I will take crap for this, but I am not going to call archies bluff here, as I dont have 5000 to risk, nor do I want to take my car into the drag racing direction at the moment. i like driving it around town, and the fact I have already gotten back what I invested in it.
On the otherhand, knowing I will take crap for this, but I am not going to call archies bluff here...
What makes you think Archie was bluffing?
Honestly darkhorizon, I don't understand how you can even show your face around here anymore after your macho guy "challenge" and then backing down big time. Have you no shame?
And this has nothing to do with being pro Archie or not.
You issued the challenge (apparently to make yourself look important) and it then turns out you had no such intention of following through. Lame, absolutely lame...
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.
[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 03-18-2008).]
See Archie we don't have to go over to RFT, Shaunna just logs in under your PFF screen name that he has registered on RFT, then he comments in his own threads:
So, Shaunna is actually talking to himself? That explains Shaunna's multiple postings and continued childish rantings; Shaunna is obsessed with Archie and truely wants to be V8Archie. That type of behavior is truely "mental." Somebody needs to send this to Hollywood. You'd make millions!
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 03-18-2008).]
Without causing too much drama here I think the only thing some people would like to see are some friendly races between other users on here. It's not like people are calling people out but I don't see anything wrong with racing at the track when other owners want to see some cars run that never have or even a grudge match. Everyone thinks they have the fastest car, that's just how the world works, but when it comes down to it, if people don't want to race then oh well. No one wants to be embarrassed about their car losing in a race after talking smack, but if you are going to talk the talk sometimes when it's time to walk the walk and you don't come through then that's where the drama starts. I mean if I was going to buy a specific swap I would want to know how fast it is going to be with some mods, but there isn't a lot of info out there and doing so would clear up a lot of fuss about what certain swaps run. Run what ya brung and hope you brung enough is all the advice I can offer.
------------------ 1 of 2: Graphite Grey Pearl 87 GT 5 spd: 2.8L (Best 1/4 mile: 15.57@87mph, 2.0 60ft) 2 of 2: Ferrari Red 88 Formula/4T65EHD: 97 GTP Motor (Best 1/4 mile: 12.0@118mph, 1.89 60ft w/True Street Radial Tires not Drag Radials!)
You know, I think everybody of reasonable mind thinks that Shaun gets a little over the top in being abrasive and hostile. Some of his claims of unsubstantiated performance claims (which I've seen him point at V6s and other engines as well, for the record) are not without factual basis, IMHO. The approach gets people on defense, for obvious reasons.
However, regardless of engine choice, I do think that the more valid performance data that's out there, the better it gets for everybody. And the less guesses/claims, the better as well. Dynos? Timeslips? Those are pretty solid and unarguable sources of data that people can make much use of. You will assuredly gain respect for sharing some real life numbers, because people are curious. Inflated claims and complete fabrications are common to many groups favoring certain drivetrain choices, from the kid with the stock B16 Honda Civic that thinks he runs 13s, to the guy with a mid 90s Cavalier that swears he has 200 WHP cuz of exhaust, a chip, and a K&N, to the guy with the 400HP SBC with a stock TPI induction system on it. By all means, if you did put together a 400HP TPI V8, we want to see how you did it, and we will salute you. If I claimed my balanced and blueprinted 3.4DOHC made 275WHP, I *really* hope somebody would come along and set me straight unless I had real proof. Real engine people like and respect ALL engines and their potential. You have the 1000HP Ecotecs, 600HP 3800s, and the 1200HP 350s, but we want to see what your average joe is making, too.
I get it that some people don't build SBC's to race or to make the most HP/TQ possible. I was going to install a 4.9 into my other car to have as a torquey cruiser, till I found a rare 3.1 TGP setup instead. If you built it for the hell of it, or you wanted a cool weekend cruiser, my hats off to ya. But if somebody, anybody, with any engine wants to make performance claims, I would hope they can back it up with at least some proof, especially before making claims of track times that don't mathematically correlate, or HP/TQ numbers that are unexpectedly high of a certain setup. At very least, people really want to know HOW you did it, if nothing more. This is for everybody, although it seems, at least to me, that it's politically incorrect to inquire or question somebodys claim about smallblock setups, although it's perfectly kosher for any other setup.
I mean hey, maybe I'm wrong, but this is the way I see it and I'm trying to be evenhanded here.
[edit]: word fix
[This message has been edited by Blue Shift (edited 03-19-2008).]
You know, I think everybody of reasonable mind thinks that Shaun gets a little over the top in being abrasive and hostile. Some of his claims of unsubstantiated performance claims (which I've seen him point at V6s and other engines as well, for the record) are not without factual basis, IMHO. The approach gets people on defense, for obvious reasons.
However, regardless of engine choice, I do think that the more valid performance data that's out there, the better it gets for everybody. And the less guesses/claims, the better as well. Dynos? Timeslips? Those are pretty solid and unarguable sources of data that people can make much use of. You will assuredly gain respect for sharing some real life numbers, because people are curious. Inflated claims and complete fabrications are common to many groups favoring certain drivetrain choices, from the kid with the stock B16 Honda Civic that thinks he runs 13s, to the guy with a mid 90s Cavalier that swears he has 200 WHP cuz of exhaust, a chip, and a K&N, to the guy with the 400HP SBC with a stock TPI induction system on it. By all means, if you did put together a 400HP TPI V8, we want to see how you did it, and we will salute you. If I claimed my balanced and blueprinted 3.4DOHC made 275WHP, I *really* hope somebody would come along and set me straight unless I had real proof. Real engine people like and respect ALL engines and their potential. You have the 1000HP Ecotecs, 600HP 3800s, and the 1200HP 350s, but we want to see what your average joe is making, too.
I get it that some people don't build SBC's to race or to make the most HP/TQ possible. I was going to install a 4.9 into my other car to have as a torquey cruiser, till I found a rare 3.1 TGP setup instead. If you built it for the hell of it, or you wanted a cool weekend cruiser, my hats off to ya. But if somebody, anybody, with any engine wants to make performance claims, I would hope they can back it up with at least some proof, especially before making claims of track times that don't mathematically correlate, or HP/TQ numbers that are unexpectedly high of a certain setup. At very least, people really want to know HOW you did it, if nothing more. This is for everybody, although it seems, at least to me, that it's politically incorrect to inquire or question somebodys claim about smallblock setups, although it's perfectly kosher for any other setup.
I mean hey, maybe I'm wrong, but this is the way I see it and I'm trying to be evenhanded here.
Originally posted by crzyone: Do you even look to the left to see where people are from? What are the chances I'm going to drive 3 days to race someone? Not very likely. I do race my cars, here in Alberta. I can post up time slips and compare them to anyone.
This is me racing my GTR. Auto x
Drag Strip
Suppose you have time slips and pictures of you at the track?
nope. never look. makes the whole thing even sillyer, doesnt it? not only is someone else's car not my car - it is also many many miles away, and likely I will NEVER see it. it, and its owners claims are 100% moot. most of us have been on the internet before, and know how seriously to take info found on the internet. unlikely - but - the 25th is coming up. wednesday beforehand is a unofficial dragday. this whole tread was answered on the 20th. there were SBC's present. was anyone paying attention? oh well. ask someone else. no, I do not. and, I also dont demand any proof of others. tho, I may be able to find some coverage from the 20th at Milan & at Waterford, there were many people taking pics & vids. many participated. if you really want to see me & my Fiero - go dig thru the 20th footage. or, come down for the 25th.
I'm sure ya know the saying: The Bull$hit stops, when the green flag drops.
that is it. all else is noise & chatter. this whole thread. noise & chatter. well - actually kinda quite - being its all text....useless text...
so, what's it to ya if I put a 350 in my Fiero? how does that affect you??
I'd just like to take a second and congratulate Cliff and everyone involved in the forum, past and present, on Trash Can Thread #100!!
It only took us NINE years to reach this momentous occasion, and I think we all deserve a round of applause.
But, in all seriousness, I think it says something about all of us that we average less than one thread per month in the Trash Can over almost a decade. While we can (and do) disagree from time to time, generally we can keep it civil, at least to the point that we can avoid the threads getting locked.
So, once again, lets keep up the good work (and some semblance of civility) and see if we can make it ten years from this point before we get to #200.
[This message has been edited by FieroJimmy (edited 03-19-2008).]
so, what's it to ya if I put a 350 in my Fiero? how does that affect you??
If you go back and read my posts you would know the answer to this question. Its not the engine I care about. You could install a geo metro engine, I really don't care. If you install an engine, that is not a factory built engine and start making guestimates on power without actual testing then you might get called out. Built a TPI V-8 and claim 400hp, you will definitly be asked about it. Get it? Throw in a duke and claim 200hp, you will get asked questions. Only problem for you is if you exagerate a non sbc engine, you won't have the backing from the sbc owners.
Bullshit stops when owners grow enough balls to get on a dyno and back up their big mouths.
Only problem for you is if you exagerate a non sbc engine, you won't have the backing from the sbc owners.
That is complete BS. There is obviously a group of 3800 guys, 3.4 DOHC guys, 60* v6 AND SBC guys that all stick up for their own. Then there are guys who stick up for what they think is right reguardless on engine choice. Some think it is only right to post numbers if they have 4 forms of evidence. Others feel that it right for a person to post what they think or calculate a cars performance is.
Your statement singles out the SBC guys which will only help perpetuate the notion that they have a target on their back.
The problem lies with the "BPS" (big penis syndrome). I have my SBC with the Webers, my VR6 Fiero and my tech's 10 second turbo BMW in my shop. Every single person that comes in my shop looks at my SBC car and laughs at the other cars saying that he hopes they can keep up. The SBC has the BPS. But, just because it is pumping out the big (cubic) inches, doesn't mean it is the fastest thing on the road. My VR6 will blow the doors off my SBC and my tech's 10 second BMW...well, enough said. I think the Non-SBC guys are getting pissed because they have these 11 second 3800s and when they park next to a SBC Fiero, automatically the SBC wins. I like my SBC, but even I'm getting annoyed with the typical response. Yes, my car is fast. Yes, it will beat the guys stock Mustang next door, yes it will beat my stock Fiero GT, but no, it won't keep up with a 10 second BMW....but it gets all the attention...hence the BPS. Just my $0.03 Dave
------------------ 1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (wife's toy), 1986 SE soon to be VR6, certified master technician/shop owner www.njautobahn.com
My N* gets the same attention. I pull up somewhere, they hear the V-8 sound and then they are amazed that it is a 32V all aluminum DOHC V-8. No pushrod 350 will wow the "younger" croud like a high tech V-8 in a small car. Guess you need a non SBC V-8 to realize that.
Yeah, I remember that. In my High School, if you didn't have a Big Block, everyone made fun of you calling it your grandma's car. Everything was a stick shift on the floor. And the only pickups were 2 driven by local farmers' sons.
The Oldie's weren't old & no one could dis' you without doing it face to face.
Archie
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
Wasn't always this way.
Back during the muscle car era, small block Chevys (yes, including the 350) were looked down, yes DOWN upon by those of us with big block Chevys (396, 427, 454).
Take the beauty covers off. Just holds in heat anyways. Oh, nm. I see you don't mind a hot intake anyways. Nice location for a filter. Good for power. I keep forgetting that your engines make so much power and torque that a hot air intake doesn't make a difference. Sorry!
I'm sure you know what a MAF sensor measures, I mean you must. I also have to believe that you know that hot air is less dense than cold air. Think about it. Your MAF is reading that you are pulling in less air because it is less dense, less mass. So, you don't inject as much fuel to compensate. End result? Lower power. I guess it's not worth taking the extra time and few bucks to whip up a cold air intake.
[This message has been edited by crzyone (edited 03-19-2008).]
Take the beauty covers off. Just holds in heat anyways. Oh, nm. I see you don't mind a hot intake anyways. Nice location for a filter. Good for power. I keep forgetting that your engines make so much power and torque that a hot air intake doesn't make a difference. Sorry!
I'm sure you know what a MAF sensor measures, I mean you must. I also have to believe that you know that hot air is less dense than cold air. Think about it. Your MAF is reading that you are pulling in less air because it is less dense, less mass. So, you don't inject as much fuel to compensate. End result? Lower power. I guess it's not worth taking the extra time and few bucks to whip up a cold air intake.
You know, it kinda looks like you should be worrying more about the performance of your car then you do about mine.
Not to worry, I'll have a CAI when the weather gets nice enough to drive it again.
There's a lot of people here with injector covers, Coil covers & engine covers. I'll be you even have one of those big NStar covers ask them if they hold significant heat in.
BTW, you still haven't answered those questions I asked you.
Take the beauty covers off. Just holds in heat anyways.
Have you complained to GM about this yet? Since you know more about building cars than GM does, I'm sure they would want to know how much those beauty covers are killing performance.
I'm sure you know what a MAF sensor measures, I mean you must. I also have to believe that you know that hot air is less dense than cold air. Think about it. Your MAF is reading that you are pulling in less air because it is less dense, less mass. So, you don't inject as much fuel to compensate. End result? Lower power. I guess it's not worth taking the extra time and few bucks to whip up a cold air intake.
i believe the IAT takes care of the density problem with the MAF, just a thought.
Originally posted by crzyone: You could install a geo metro engine, I really don't care.
hey! dont be bad-mouthing the mighty geo metro engine. that's 3 cylinders of roaring power to you, all 45+ horses of it! when gas hits $20 a gallon, you guys may be able to do the 1/8th mile in 4.2 seconds, but after that you'll be coasting, out of gas. i'll wave as i putt by, accelerating well beyond 30 mph. eat my dust!
Have you complained to GM about this yet? Since you know more about building cars than GM does, I'm sure they would want to know how much those beauty covers are killing performance.
Not to worry, I only put those covers on when I want to impress the "younger" croud.
A
edited to add......
Not to worry, I only put those covers on when I want to impress the "younger" crowd.
The 1st one was a cut-n-paste.
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 03-20-2008).]
BTW, you still haven't answered those questions I asked you.
Archie
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question I asked you first. So as soon as I get an answer, I'll indulge you.
I do not have an engine cover. The integrated coil packs and N* intake are too nice to cover up. Plus, it wouldhold in heat in an already hot engine bay. You know, function over form.
I do not have an engine cover. The integrated coil packs and N* intake are too nice to cover up. Plus, it wouldhold in heat in an already hot engine bay. You know, function over form.
Madcurl lives in CA has two fieros with N* motors (running on all 8 cylinders ) with factory covers with out any over heating problems , so If your setup over heats or you feel it will on 6 N* cylinders time to check your "function and form".
.JPG)
, so If your setup over heats or you feel it will on 6 N* cylinders time to check your "function and form".
