Madcurl lives in CA has two fieros with N* motors (running on all 8 cylinders ) with factory covers with out any over heating problems , so If your setup over heats or you feel it will on 6 N* cylinders time to check your "function and form".
My car doesn't overheat. Time to refine your reading comprehension. Thanks!
i believe the IAT takes care of the density problem with the MAF, just a thought.
The engine will run just fine with a hot air intake, but it won't make as much power as a motor taking in cooler, denser air. That is what I was getting at. The MAF won't measure as much air comming into the engine, the density will be lower so it injects less fuel to maintain the correct AFR.
My car doesn't overheat. Time to refine your reading comprehension. Thanks!
Mine doesn't either but thanks for your concern.
quote
Originally posted by crzyone: The engine will run just fine with a hot air intake, but it won't make as much power as a motor taking in cooler, denser air. That is what I was getting at. The MAF won't measure as much air comming into the engine, the density will be lower so it injects less fuel to maintain the correct AFR.
Once again, you may want spend some of the effort you're putting into worrying about my car & worry about your own.
Once again, you may want spend some of the effort you're putting into worrying about my car & worry about your own.
Archie
For your customers sake, you should figure out a cold air system. They are not installing LSX engines for the sound. Might as well help them get the most performance out of the engines as possible.
Originally posted by crzyone: For your customers sake, you should figure out a cold air system. They are not installing LSX engines for the sound. Might as well help them get the most performance out of the engines as possible.
personally, i like you, and i think you could contribute a lot of meaningful information. but youre beginning to look like a troll to me. is it really that important to keep this thread alive? do you really think he's going to take your advice? do you really think he needs your advice?
personally, i like you, and i think you could contribute a lot of meaningful information. but youre beginning to look like a troll to me. is it really that important to keep this thread alive? do you really think he's going to take your advice? do you really think he needs your advice?
Anybody that questions Archie comes off as a "troll" here. This is of course independent of any validity of complaint or question, though...
Originally posted by Blue Shift: Anybody that questions Archie comes off as a "troll" here. This is of course independent of any validity of complaint or question, though...
no.
it has nothing to do with archie or the validity (or lack thereof) of a question or complaint. ive never met archie, ive never seen his product, i most likely never will. i drive an '84 with a duke. i dont care in the least whether someone i dont know has a particular engine or adaptor. how many times have i posted in this thread, or the other 3 that were here in the trash with it, all basically hijacked for the same purpose, which seems to be to "complain" about or "question" archie's work?
why do you care? do you own an archie kit? do you personally know anyone who does?
i think it looks like a troll when someone wont let an argument go, and continues to harp on it long after it has ceased to interest anyone except the potential troll.
I don't like the fact that people give Archie a hard time about his product or his services. Its real freakin simple people, if you don't like his products, don't buy them. If you don't like his services, don't ask for them. Archie builds what the customer pays for, if they want a 7.0 Liter Vette engine in their Fiero, he will gladly drop it in for a price. Its what the customer wants, so if a customer wants a 100HP V8 in their Fiero, so be it, I am sure Archie will put it in for them, for a price. Don't bash Archie for giving the customer what they want and paid for. I have personally seen his adaptor kit for a Chevy 350 and its a excellent quality product along with his other products he offers. I will tell you right now I cannot provide a better product or service better than Archie or anyone else for that matter.If you think you can provide a better product and service than Archie can, then step right up and open your own business and prove it, don't just sit there and say you can, prove it. Actions speak louder than words.
personally, i like you, and i think you could contribute a lot of meaningful information. but youre beginning to look like a troll to me. is it really that important to keep this thread alive? do you really think he's going to take your advice? do you really think he needs your advice?
Does Archie need Levi's advice? Well, is it bad advice? I don't think so.
I dyno'd my car. My 97 3800SC SII came out with around 200 at the wheel. I posted it on www.realfierotech.com and I did catch some static from an idiot about the numbers, but I also learned a bit about how the car should be performing. Before the dyno'd, others who had ridden or driven it had been impressed with its acceleration. After the dyno, I replaced my O2 sensor, ignition wires, coil packs, plugs, and had a proper in-fender 3.5" cold air intake, I took it back to the same type of dyne and put down 238 whp. Still, nothing stellar that would wow people at car shows when you drop the number on them, but we put 85,000 miles on that swap between my father and I, and I would drive it far and fast with no hesitation. (what good is 300+hp to me if I can't drive it?)
It's not a bad idea at all to dyno and find out that your car may be a bit of a dog. If you are delivering a turn-key piece of engineering like Archie provides, it's not rocket science to make a cold air intake. My muffler guy made mine. Surely Archies young guns couldhandle designing an intake given the directive. And, wouldn't it be cool to have real before and after dyno numbers?
Archie shouldn't look at crzyone as a troll, rather as a customer making a suggestion. I mean , Archie did cash Levi's check. I'd say he still technically qualifies as a customer. And I would think that it would be good business to listen to the market.
So, does Archie need this advice? I don't know, does he need money?
[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 03-24-2008).]
It's not a bad idea at all to dyno and find out that your car may be a bit of a dog. If you are delivering a turn-key piece of engineering like Archie provides......
So are you saying that Archie should dyno all his customers cars??
Dyno's are a tool not an absolute. Even Darth Fiero does not dyno every car. He only dyno's a car IF the customer requests it AND the customer pays for it. I'm sure if someone wanted their car dyno'd after Archie did a swap, He would do the same.
Originally posted by Oreif: So are you saying that Archie should dyno all his customers cars??
no, that's smoke and mirrors. it's a pretty little story about how positive his experience was, with a link to rft, always sure to stir up a little controversy. here's the real crux of his argument:
quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: Archie did cash Levi's check. So even though archie never sent him what he ordered,
he's basically alleging fraud. he's not claiming he was defrauded, he's claiming levi was. but it's not his fight, he's not offering any proof, and he cant prove it on the internet anyway, so it's pointless pot-stirring.
Originally posted by crzyone: If you go back and read my posts you would know the answer to this question. Its not the engine I care about. You could install a geo metro engine, I really don't care. If you install an engine, that is not a factory built engine and start making guestimates on power without actual testing then you might get called out. Built a TPI V-8 and claim 400hp, you will definitly be asked about it. Get it? Throw in a duke and claim 200hp, you will get asked questions. Only problem for you is if you exagerate a non sbc engine, you won't have the backing from the sbc owners.
Bullshit stops when owners grow enough balls to get on a dyno and back up their big mouths.
yeah - I get it. I can claim any HP I want. from start line to finish line is all that matters. anyone who makes HP claims is lieing. either high or low. if they boast high - it means they are not a racer. all ya need to know.
yes, I understand the frustration of many "350" people that 4's & 6's are some kind of "wind up toy".
sorry - the 350 will always go to 11. dont need a dyno to prove that.
I dont care what it CAN do - I care what it DOES do. and, you being a racer also - what is the problem? you already know the truth. do you tell yer buddy your banging his girl too? geez - leave people in their security bubble.....
Sorry. Trying to stay out of this thread. Let it die.
Not all V8s are slow
Sorry for the wait, they had trouble staging and I didnt get the time but they were pretty fast. I think that run was in the 4s but didnt get the time.
So are you saying that Archie should dyno all his customers cars??
Dyno's are a tool not an absolute. Even Darth Fiero does not dyno every car. He only dyno's a car IF the customer requests it AND the customer pays for it. I'm sure if someone wanted their car dyno'd after Archie did a swap, He would do the same.
No, I'm not trying to push that message, Dave. I guess coming late to a party, i get to carry everyone's baggage?
I'm not a builder. I'm a customer. I never expected that ACE dyno test a zero mile series 2 power plant from Schram to tell me it would get around 240. And I never expected WCF to do dyno runs on the exhaust. I, as the customer and owner took the initiative to find out what she'll do. And I just said "it's not a bad idea."
Lurker, try PMs. You make it hard for me to like you sometimes when you troop around threads calling everyone a troll. The point I was making is that no matter how small the transaction, in this case a $20 video, when people give you their money, they are customers. Not trolls.
No, I'm not trying to push that message, Dave. I guess coming late to a party, i get to carry everyone's baggage?
I'm not a builder. I'm a customer. I never expected that ACE dyno test a zero mile series 2 power plant from Schram to tell me it would get around 240. And I never expected WCF to do dyno runs on the exhaust. I, as the customer and owner took the initiative to find out what she'll do. And I just said "it's not a bad idea."
Sorry if I interpreted your post incorrectly. No, You do not need to carry everyone's baggage.
I agree that it is the customer that determines what he wants. If he is really interested in dyno numbers than he should be the one to get them. If he is not interested in dyno numbers, Then there is no need to beat them down. I can understand some folks claim huge numbers without proof, and to call them on it is one thing. But this stereotyping of all from the others (not you) is just getting old.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-24-2008).]
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: Lurker, try PMs. You make it hard for me to like you sometimes when you troop around threads calling everyone a troll.
(1) too late. we've been exchanging PMs since shortly after midnight this morning. (2) whether you like me or not is not my problem. (3) exactly how many people have i called a troll? support your argument.
[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 03-24-2008).]
Maybe, just maybe, it's because I'm not trying to bash you.
I merely related my experiences in getting my car dyno'd. I shared about getting grief from some young punk know it all on the Internet and how Iearned what things I needed to do, which included replacing the stock 2.8 airbox with a proper cold air intake, to gain 40whp.
This only comes back to you as a suggestion, not a "bashing". It's a suggestion to the customer to put their car to the test. It's a suggestion to you to maybe spend an afternoon engineering a fenderwell intake and took a car to a dyno for before vs after you could advertise real horsepower.
And you can stop being such a douchebag.
[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 03-24-2008).]
I've explained this before, but because you're so slow, I'll explain it again.
You're so smart, I'm surprised you can't figure this out on your own.
Almost every engine I put in is a NEW Chevy Crate engine. Included in every installation is a new performance clutch.
All these guys who are putting in used junkyard engines can take the cars directly to the Dyno if they want. They don't have to worry about breakin miles because they're dealing with a used engine anyway.
However all new performance clutches & new crate engines require some kind of normal driving breakin before being driven hard. The one item that takes the most normal driving breakin is the clutch. Typically a SPEC or CenterForce clutch requires 450 to 500 miles of normal driving to be considered broken in properly.
Whenever a customer comes in & wants to pay me by the hour, 15 to 20 hours to break in the clutch, & wants to pay me to take it to the dyno to rod the heck out of it, then I'll be happy to do it. Most of my customers would rather be the 1st ones to rod their car & not have to pay me to do it.
I'm not the guy saying that you should be hammering on other peoples cars. Read it again. I suggested that customers might find benefit from testing their own cars. I'm saying that there is a gap in your product line, and I would assume that you do have access to a car of your own to test?
I'm not the guy saying that you should be hammering on other peoples cars. Read it again. I suggested that customers might find benefit from testing their own cars. I'm saying that there is a gap in your product line, and I would assume that you do have access to a car of your own to test?
Why wouldn't the dyno and 1/4 times Oreif posted be enough? Why is it on Archie to prove again what a crate motor will do. Should we also test the body panels and make sure they can withstand a bowling ball on a rope? Lets give it a rest. If Archie starts building motors then we can revisit this.
Jayzus Fukkin Keerist, dude. I'm not the one saying that Archie should test customers cars. Damn.
quote
Originally posted by WhiteDevil88:
Man, I guess it takes a couple of repititions.
I'm not the guy saying that you should be hammering on other peoples cars. Read it again. I suggested that customers might find benefit from testing their own cars. I'm saying that there is a gap in your product line, and I would assume that you do have access to a car of your own to test?
Did I read that wrong? I think everyone should give it a rest, Im out.
For your customers sake, you should figure out a cold air system. They are not installing LSX engines for the sound. Might as well help them get the most performance out of the engines as possible.
This was the post that I was referring to, I don't know what you're thinking about.
For your customers sake, you should figure out a cold air system. They are not installing LSX engines for the sound. Might as well help them get the most performance out of the engines as possible.
I am sure that Archie could do that for a price, if its not included in the standard installation price, then, duh, its not going to be installed. But I am sure for a little bit more money Archie will be happy to fabricate and install one. If Archie wants to offer it as a standard in his installations, great, but it is HIS BUSINESS. Like I said before, if you think you can do better than Archie in installing engines in Fieros at his price or cheaper, Prove It!!!!!!!! Open your own business, then we can all see.
Why are you taking old quotes and arguing them? Is it because I said I wouldn't post in here anymore? Kind of like taking a sucker punch isn't it? You should have made your comment days ago. Thanks for playing.
I just don't comprehend the knee jerk touchieness of the Friends of Archie regarding any engineering input. There is certainly no comfrontation in a custom build thread when someone suggests a different headlight or fender. Its called getting feedback from your market. Archie could say,"Thanks for your input." and some slow day at the shop whip up something that you can sell for another couple of hundred bucks. Easypeasyjapanesey.
I think the point here, is that a forum is for the sharing of information.
When people want to know what real life Archie swaps do, one would be safe to assume that they're looking for real life data that will assist them in making their decision. That's a LOT of money to spend, so I would consider it a wise choice to completely investigate it all before taking the plunge or making any plans. I researched for half a year before building my 3.4 DOHC swap, and since people shared valid information, what I got out of it met (exceeded, really) my expectations and helped me along.
You have a lot of people interested in building SBC swaps for the awesome factor - but it seems that requests for proof SBC claims are considered trolling. What about potential customers looking into a future project? How does Joe Blow know that an LM1 universal replacement engine doesn't make 300HP in a Fiero as it comes? From a GM rated crate engine, to finished swap, what real life performance numbers will you see? Crate motors are measured on an engine dyno with optimal exhaust, induction, and tuning. How much does it make as installed? How does one achieve every last bit of it when it's installed?
What about suggestions and improvements? The new aluminum flywheels are a VERY good improvement, as agreed upon by everybody - and have been long suggested by many people that thought the original to be way too heavy. These people questioning the original design were labeled "trolls" and their objections were ignored. Why? A cold air intake is a very simple addition, and many suggestions are put forward all the time about implementing such a setup as an option or standard feature of the Archie kits. But these people are labeled trolls and their opinions ignored. Why? Are suggestions themselves an insult somehow?
Everybody else in the swap community freely raise questions, offer suggestions, or question things that don't seem right (and could be potentially be mistaken for truth), without any problems, fights, trolling, or the like. One would think that in a commercial venture, a buisiness owner would be making friends with people, while blowing your doors off with the latest and greatest - the ultimate sales tool. I understand that Archie ends up under a lot of fire, but I'm saying that grace under fire, backed by solid performance is the ultimate way to defeat the naysayers, while gaining respect all around.
Why are you taking old quotes and arguing them? Is it because I said I wouldn't post in here anymore? Kind of like taking a sucker punch isn't it? You should have made your comment days ago. Thanks for playing.
Look at the post above mine. I haven't taken any sucker punches. No, I didn't post that because you said you wouldn't post here anymore, I could careless if you posted again or not. I am just voicing my opinion, which I am allowed to do. I am just saying if anyone on here or any other forum thinks they can run a better business than Archie is running, Prove It. Talk is cheap. Archie is just running a business, if you don't like the way he does things, don't purchase any products or services from him. I bet most of the people that have been bashing Archie haven't owned a product from Archie or have had a service provided from him, it just one persons bad experience blown up by other people. I think if you haven't owned a product from him or recieved a service from him, you shouldn't give any input on how he should do things. Thinking is different from knowing. I didn't know this was a game.
I think if you haven't owned a product from him or recieved a service from him, you shouldn't give any input on how he should do things.
So, by this logic, if you haven't received a product or service from crzyone, you shouldn't have any input on what he does?
Or, that the opinion of someone who's never owned a GM product doesn't matter in the design of a new car?
Or, a person who's never been in a particular restaurant shouldn't be able to suggest that they go smoke free?
When you are running a business everyone's opinion matters. Your customer's opinion matters (are they happy with the product). But also, people who haven't bought from you matter. Do they need the product you make? Do they like the looks of your product? Do they like your reputation for customer service? Do they think something should/could be changed? Are they more likely to buy if that is changed?
A business can only sell to the same product to the same people so many times. Eventually you need a new product, or a new customer. Restaurants change their menus all the time, car makers update and change models, even banks improve/change their offerings in an effort to keep existing customers and win over new ones.
The logic of this statement, to say nothing of the argument behind it, is inherently flawed. A business that ignores potential customers will always leave money on the table, and most people who are in business are in it to make the most money they can. (<-- Just ask any Democrat, businesses are only after the profit, nothing else matters. )
I think the point here, is that a forum is for the sharing of information.
You have a lot of people interested in building SBC swaps for the awesome factor - but it seems that requests for proof SBC claims are considered trolling. What about potential customers looking into a future project? How does Joe Blow know that an LM1 universal replacement engine doesn't make 300HP in a Fiero as it comes? From a GM rated crate engine, to finished swap, what real life performance numbers will you see? Crate motors are measured on an engine dyno with optimal exhaust, induction, and tuning. How much does it make as installed? How does one achieve every last bit of it when it's installed?
What about suggestions and improvements? The new aluminum flywheels are a VERY good improvement, as agreed upon by everybody - and have been long suggested by many people that thought the original to be way too heavy. These people questioning the original design were labeled "trolls" and their objections were ignored. Why? A cold air intake is a very simple addition, and many suggestions are put forward all the time about implementing such a setup as an option or standard feature of the Archie kits. But these people are labeled trolls and their opinions ignored. Why? Are suggestions themselves an insult somehow?
Everybody else in the swap community freely raise questions, offer suggestions, or question things that don't seem right (and could be potentially be mistaken for truth), without any problems, fights, trolling, or the like. One would think that in a commercial venture, a buisiness owner would be making friends with people, while blowing your doors off with the latest and greatest - the ultimate sales tool. I understand that Archie ends up under a lot of fire, but I'm saying that grace under fire, backed by solid performance is the ultimate way to defeat the naysayers, while gaining respect all around.
The thing is there are a few who have actually spent the time and money to get the data. The data is out there and if you research it, You can find the information to make a sound decision. Just doing a seach here, There are four Fiero's powered by ZZ4 crate engines that have been dyno'd. Three of the swaps were installed by the vendor and one was done by the owner. The ZZ4 is rated at 355hp and the four ZZ4 powered Fiero's have dyno'd 296rwhp, 306rwhp, 309 rwhp, and 309rwhp. This data alone should show that a crate engine swapped into a Fiero only loses about 13-14% thru the driveline. With four verified installs, that should provide true info for someone considering the swap, Right?
The problem is a select group of individuals has made it their goal in life to harass anyone with a particular swap because the head instigator has an obsession with the vendor. This leads to stereotyping and hate. When you have been constantly harassed, it is difficult to sort out the constructive criticism from the hate mongers because you feel you need to be on the defensive all the time.
How do you think any vendor or person would act if for the past 4 years you AND your happy/loyal customers were constantly harassed both on a forum and thru E-mails??
Go onto YouTube or Streetfire and look at every SBC Fiero video and you will see the hate-mongers have posted hateful comments on all of them. Some of them have never heard of PFF or RFT but yet they are being harassed only because of their engine choice.
) with factory covers with out any over heating problems 
, so If your setup over heats or you feel it will on 6 N* cylinders time to check your "function and form".
No, I didn't post that because you said you wouldn't post here anymore, I could careless if you posted again or not. I am just voicing my opinion, which I am allowed to do. I am just saying if anyone on here or any other forum thinks they can run a better business than Archie is running, Prove It. Talk is cheap. Archie is just running a business, if you don't like the way he does things, don't purchase any products or services from him. I bet most of the people that have been bashing Archie haven't owned a product from Archie or have had a service provided from him, it just one persons bad experience blown up by other people. I think if you haven't owned a product from him or recieved a service from him, you shouldn't give any input on how he should do things. Thinking is different from knowing. I didn't know this was a game. 
