I dont think they made too many indy mats right? I would say those are in great condition considering that they are better than 9 out of 10 other mats in cars right now.
I also dont know why you requested a picture, then you didnt look at it before it ended, your fault there. You bid on it, he posted a picture, answered your questions, he did everything that he should have done, and I even think he did a great job describing them as 9/10, I really would call it that because things are really relative.
For example, a fiero around here in michigan, is a 9/10 car even if it has typical rust in the trunk and such, as long as it has above average everything else, typical things would not discourage me from buying them. Remember you buying a FLOOR MAT, not a emblem or somthing, this part is arguably the most worn on thing in the car, other than the seat, but any 20 year old floor mat I have seen is usually 300 different colors.
I am not going to try to read all of this. BUT those mats are not 9 out of 10. If I won the auction and then seen the photo I would be taking this up with Ebay and if that didn't work get the black silicone and fix the back of them. This will help some. Or just resell at a loss and forget it.
Indy mats or not, the scale is the same. They look to be about 4 or 5 out of 10 in my book. I sold some NOS mats and wouldn't even give them a 10 without looking them over very carefully and disclosing any "issues" with storage or such. NOS mats are 9 or 10s, these are not. Call it wear or age... but a rusted out GTO is not the same as a rust free GTO... same here, rare or not.
J.
Yeah that's all I wanted from this thread is other's opinions on the condition of the mats. If Todd can't see that he's wrong about that then everything else dosen't matter. Thanks, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
The United States is the only industrialized nation to *outlaw* hemp production.
I dont think they made too many indy mats right? I would say those are in great condition considering that they are better than 9 out of 10 other mats in cars right now.
I also dont know why you requested a picture, then you didnt look at it before it ended, your fault there. You bid on it, he posted a picture, answered your questions, he did everything that he should have done, and I even think he did a great job describing them as 9/10, I really would call it that because things are really relative.
For example, a fiero around here in michigan, is a 9/10 car even if it has typical rust in the trunk and such, as long as it has above average everything else, typical things would not discourage me from buying them. Remember you buying a FLOOR MAT, not a emblem or somthing, this part is arguably the most worn on thing in the car, other than the seat, but any 20 year old floor mat I have seen is usually 300 different colors.
ONCE AGAIN: I DID NOT request the addtional photo!!!! What part of DID NOT don't some of you understand??? Also, a scale of 1 to 10 means 10 is PERFECT - it can't get *any* better! A 9 is NEAR PERFECT. If every car on the road has mats with holes in them, it dosen't make a severely worn mat without holes a 10 or even a 7! It's NOT a sliding scale!!! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Dont sweat the petty things; don't pet the sweaty things.
I guess it doesnt matter that you asked or did not ask, the fact is he posted it, and you didnt look. If you were concerned about the back, then why bid without seeing it?
I still stand by the fact I think I would describe it as 9/10.
Wow... I am surprised at this. Let me ask..... when being set up on a blind date you are told the person is a 9 out of 10, do you base that on the local population or the age group? I mean when I think of a 9 out of 10 I assume this person to be ... let's just say... very good looking. If we use your standards, this person may be good looking "for their age".... like saying "my grandmother is a 9 out of 10"... it just doesn't sound right
J.
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:
I still stand by the fact I think I would describe it as 9/10.
I guess it doesnt matter that you asked or did not ask, the fact is he posted it, and you didnt look. If you were concerned about the back, then why bid without seeing it?
I still stand by the fact I think I would describe it as 9/10.
After looking at the auction (Which by the way lists the condition as "New" ) I would say that the 9-10 would be the passenger side, The driver side mat looks a little used and about a 6-7. (my opinion)
With the backside pic it is very obvious that the mats are "Used", so the condition is incorrect.
The backside pic was posted 16 hours before the auction ended. Does 16 hours seem a reasonable length of time? As a bidder, Would you expect a seller to at least notify you that he posted more pics? Especially since you have already traded Emails? If you were bidding on something, Wouldn't you check the auction a few times a day?
I don't know which way Ebay would go with this because the two main points are split for who has the advantage. As the buyer, The backside pics posted do show the mats are "used" and not "new". Even if the 1 thru 10 rating scale is subjective, The mats are not "new" with the backside showing wear. So technically the auction is inaccurate. As a seller, Ebay does not allow you to change your auction the last 12 hours of the auction. So I would assume that they feel this is a fair amount of time for a buyer to check-up on the auction they are bidding on. The pics were posted 16 hours before the end of the auction. I would consider it a fair amount of time as well.
Personally regardless if I was the buyer or the seller, I would be more apt to work out the difference's than to take the hardline approach.
Good luck with your resolution (for both buyer and seller.)
The backside pic was posted 16 hours before the auction ended. Does 16 hours seem a reasonable length of time? As a bidder, Would you expect a seller to at least notify you that he posted more pics? Especially since you have already traded Emails? If you were bidding on something, Wouldn't you check the auction a few times a day?
Personally regardless if I was the buyer or the seller, I would be more apt to work out the difference's than to take the hardline approach.
Good luck with your resolution (for both buyer and seller.)
Normaly I don't check the auction after I bid, unless I'm out-bid, because I rarely bid before the last two days. After I win, I go back & save the page & images for future reference. Imagine my surprise when after the auction ended & I went there to find that he had posted the other image which clearly showed his description was inaccurate (to be knid). If he had told me he posted another pic, OR I had requested it (as he believes), then I could have checked it before the auction ended. Only reason I can determine he didn't take my offer to pay his fees is because he knows he'll never get that for those mats if he re-lists them. He thought he had a sucker. Supercharged, thanks for that. At least I tried. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
There is no problem that cannot be solved with the *right application* of high explosives.
Paul you were clearly fooled with and a real man would just take the money back and relist them.
Take WHAT money back? HE NEVER paid for them.
Why is this bitchfest thread even here? HE is not the one out anything...I AM! I lost $10 in ebay fees because he was too lazy to pull his bid. And guess what...he has never even seen these mats, just some overexposed digital pics. I have them right here...THEY ARE 9'S!
Todd, I did notice that some of your shipping seemed kinda high (to me) on the few things I was looking at, that is why I did not bid on anything you had.That is my choice and the way it is and should be.
True. I inadvertently hit the "Express Mail" button on shipping instead of the "Parcel Post" next on the menu. The shipping is automatically calculated based on what you select. I fixed it eventually but I suspect this was the reason only one person bid. The original shipping was something crazy like $50 but reduced to $19 for cross country shipping before the end of auction. Just one more thing I did to help this guy that I didn't have to and I am now getting crap for it.
Ok I’ll settle this… Paul you pay for them, when you get them if you don’t want them I’ll give you what you have in them. You give Todd a good feedback And Todd you give Paul a good feedback and the case is closed. I’m willing to do this because I was thinking about bidding on them but I didn’t. And for the record they are not a 9 if they are the ones I got 2 years ago on E bay are a 15
For YOU...$50
At last, someone who knows what a 9 is when the topic is Indy mats.
Originally posted by Toddster: Probably this part (my reply to the original request):
Thanks for that. You just proved youself WRONG!!! Look at the username & you'll see that it's NOT ME!!! It's some user called nakedwanderer. NOW do you believe me???
quote
Originally posted by Toddster: Why is this bitchfest thread even here? HE is not the one out anything...I AM! I lost $10 in ebay fees because he was too lazy to pull his bid. And guess what...he has never even seen these mats, just some overexposed digital pics. I have them right here...THEY ARE 9'S!
It's here 'cause I asked YOU to post asking opioions about the rating on the mat & YOU said "do your worst". I'm nowhere near "doing my worst" but I wanted unbiased opinions, so I asked. Replies prove that I was right: the VAST MAJORITY of folks agree that they're nowhere near a 9. Your auction has been shown to be inaccurate & yes even fraudulent. YOU are the one that came in here & made it more than just a poll on the condition of the mat. You still don't have a clue, do you? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Headline: APATHY RUNS RAMPANT - Nobody cares.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 11-14-2007).]
At last, someone who knows what a 9 is when the topic is Indy mats.
You D.A. he said quote "And for the record they are not a 9 if they are the ones I got 2 years ago on E bay are a 15.". See the part that says "NOT a 9"? ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Normaly I don't check the auction after I bid, unless I'm out-bid, because I rarely bid before the last two days. After I win, I go back & save the page & images for future reference. Imagine my surprise when after the auction ended & I went there to find that he had posted the other image which clearly showed his description was inaccurate (to be knid). If he had told me he posted another pic, OR I had requested it (as he believes), then I could have checked it before the auction ended.
I understand how you do it, But the point of my post was that the seller added the picture within a reasonable amount of time before the auction ended. If you choose to not view an ongoing auction you are bidding on until you are out-bid or it ends is not the seller's fault. The part where he lists the condition as "new" on an obviously "used" set of floor mats however is the sellers mistake.
Paul, here's the proper way to deal with this situation. Go ahead and pay for the item, and when you receive it and see that it is not "new", but "used", file the proper grievances with Ebay and Paypal. You will get your money back. That's what I did in a similar situation. The seller in my case had closed his Ebay membership, and they couldn't contact him, but because Paypal guarantees things bought through them, they refunded my money. Because the item was listed as "new" and obviously is not, you are in the right, and will get your money back eventually.
(1) This was nothing but a misunderstanding and bad timing.
)2) Paul, Did you get a deal on the mats at $75 plus shipping? Absolutely.
(3) Was it proper for Paul to bring it up on this forum? No.
(1) Exactly. I tried to work it out.
(2) It's not a deal if I can't use them. All I need is a driver's side for shows & it needs to be a 9 for that. I'm over trying to get shtuff to show it, though, & now probably never will. I work hard for what little money I have.
(3) I didn't bring this up as a dispute here, I simply wanted opinions on the condition of the mat. Todd was the one who started the _____fest.
Just so everyone understands. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Each year, more children drown in buckets or pails than are accidentally killed with a firearm.
Paul, here's the proper way to deal with this situation. Go ahead and pay for the item, and when you receive it and see that it is not "new", but "used", file the proper grievances with Ebay and Paypal. You will get your money back. That's what I did in a similar situation. The seller in my case had closed his Ebay membership, and they couldn't contact him, but because Paypal guarantees things bought through them, they refunded my money. Because the item was listed as "new" and obviously is not, you are in the right, and will get your money back eventually.
Ebay doews NOTHING when you get screwed, & I can attest to that. There have been several occasions where I paid for shtuff & never got it, & ebay said it's not their problem! Read the terms of use. They'll pay UP TO $160 IF you loose $5,000 - something like that. You're only recourse if you're screwed is to travel to the state the item wwas sold in & file a lawsuit, and/or file a mailfraud complaint with the USPS (if they were used). I can't use paypunks; they won't let me open an account 'cause I don't have checking (they closed my credit card acccount after I got to their $1,000 maximum (all paid off on the card as I charged it). BTW, if you have a checking account that paypunks has access to don't leave anything in it you can't afford to loose. I know of cases (check the web too) where folks have lost tens of thousands 'cause of their screwups. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Hey Leroy, what'cha doin' dragging that chain across the floor? Leroy: "Ever tried *pushing* a chain?"
I understand how you do it, But the point of my post was that the seller added the picture within a reasonable amount of time before the auction ended. If you choose to not view an ongoing auction you are bidding on until you are out-bid or it ends is not the seller's fault. The part where he lists the condition as "new" on an obviously "used" set of floor mats however is the sellers mistake.
Well I just didn't have time anyway to check the auction in the last 16 hours. I can't just sit here & check things like that all day. I have work to do. I *do* sometimes check when I have time. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Did you hear about the drugs smuggled in Elmo dolls? They said it was over a million $$$ Sesame street value!
Who is going to look at the bottom of the mats at shows?
You saw the top side of the mat whey you bid on it, and it shows signs of wear on it, there was no hiding that in any "9/10" rating. You are just being really bitchy, just like the guy that bought the "GT" wheel on here, whos thread got trashed not long after, because he was just being whiny about not understanding what he was ordering. His story had some parts that I thought were confusing, but this is cut and dry, the front side of the mat is OBVIOUSLY WORN A SLIGHT AMOUNT, but its EBAY, it is a USED, part not brand new or NOS. I would offer to buy some of the NOS or better mats toddster has honestly if your looking for a crazy new one or something.
Ok - after reading this "entertaining" thread, I REALLY need to see something.
Driver - Can I please see a pic of your Indy that these mats are for? I have a show winning Indy that I am very proud of, and these mats would look perfect in it. NO ONE will see the underside of the mats, and the tops look fine.
IF your Indy is in such mint showroom condition, I know a lot of us would love to see it so that we can appreciate it. I have not been able to find any threads in which there is a pic of your Indy.
Thanks!
I hope that I get a response to this....after reading your post about giving up on getting the things needed to show your car and now probably never will show it....it REALLY makes me wonder if you even have one worth showing.
Who is going to look at the bottom of the mats at shows?
You saw the top side of the mat whey you bid on it, and it shows signs of wear on it, there was no hiding that in any "9/10" rating. You are just being really bitchy, just like the guy that bought the "GT" wheel on here, whos thread got trashed not long after, because he was just being whiny about not understanding what he was ordering. His story had some parts that I thought were confusing, but this is cut and dry, the front side of the mat is OBVIOUSLY WORN A SLIGHT AMOUNT, but its EBAY, it is a USED, part not brand new or NOS. I would offer to buy some of the NOS or better mats toddster has honestly if your looking for a crazy new one or something.
The bottom pic shows the mat is falling apart. That's enough reason in itself to not want it, but it also means the top is not long behind it. I don't own any trailer queens: I'm *driving* this car! ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Guy: "You look familiar - have we met before?" Girl: "Jerk! I had you arrested for exposing yourself!" Guy: "Well...you'll have to be more specific..."
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 11-14-2007).]
Ok - after reading this "entertaining" thread, I REALLY need to see something.
Driver - Can I please see a pic of your Indy that these mats are for? I have a show winning Indy that I am very proud of, and these mats would look perfect in it. NO ONE will see the underside of the mats, and the tops look fine.
IF your Indy is in such mint showroom condition, I know a lot of us would love to see it so that we can appreciate it. I have not been able to find any threads in which there is a pic of your Indy.
Thanks!
I hope that I get a response to this....after reading your post about giving up on getting the things needed to show your car and now probably never will show it....it REALLY makes me wonder if you even have one worth showing.
I don't have pip & have not had time to put anything (or update) my personal webpage in a long time. How about I email you a couple pics & you can post them. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
Hey old man, have you lived here all your life? "Nope - not yet."
How about I email you a couple pics & you can post them. [QUOTE]
Please send them. I will post them as soon as I get the chance. I will be leaving for a job in just a few minutes, but will post them as soon as I can. You may also want to send them to OhioIndy, as I am sure he would also post them for you.
[This message has been edited by CenTexIndy (edited 11-14-2007).]
Here are the current pics of my Indy. I took off the original wheels 'cause they're in good shape & I didn't want any more wear/scratches on them. (plus the Borbets look good :-) I have a lot to do to it to detail it out, but it's pretty nice like it is. It's dirty because I don't have a well & it hasn't rained enough to fill my tank enough to wash a car. Thanks, ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
These are scanned in from polariods. I have a Kodak digital but when I loaded the software on my 'puter it made TWO THOUSAND, NINE HUNDRED, EIGHTY-SEVEN changes to my registry, & added 200+ folders!!! It *completely* screwed up my computer, to the point that even text in notepad took several seconds to show up after typing it. I tried to unistall it; not possible. I tried a system restore; the Kodak software came back. Fortunately, a few weels later the computer froze up one night & when I re-started it the Kodack crap dissapeared! (thank God!) My box still runs a little slow, & I haven't had time to format & re-install all the software. I got another puter just for the camera but haven't had time to hook it up either. Moral of the story is: DON'T BUY A *KODAK* DIGITAL!!! I have some other better pics on another computer but since I moved I haven't taken the time to hook up my network (don't really need it since I quit building websites). I'll transfer them using floppies sometime soon & send a couple to be posted. Thanks Ohio. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
I know that you think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what I said was not what I was thinking I wanted to say or meant.
Looks pretty good. I can make out the worn "heel" spot on the floor mat. So....Todd's mats would easily have served their purpose. I know of only one set that is truly new and they are sitting in the owner's closet as he is too scared to even take them out to see sunlight. I think MAYBE you could buy those from him for around $400.00.
While your Indy does seem to look good (can't really tell about the outside of the car b/c of the quality of the Polaroids) I really don't think that the issue of the mats is one to get all riled up about. The price was EXCELLENT. The mats are better than what you currently have.
Now - if your beef is with Todd not describing them exactly, fine. But let it rest at that. Todd has sold to a lot of people on PFF and eBay and his reputation is pretty high. If you had issues with the transaction, I believe it was a mistake to voice them here...it should've been kept private between the 2 individuals involved.
However - I don't really care to continue that debate, so now all I ask is that you make sure that your Indy's VIN is in the records that are being kept, and that you get us some good pics as soon as you are able.
We Indy owners can be real turds at times, but it mainly b/c of the whole keeping it stock vs modified. We don't need to be turds when it comes to getting an item that is so rare that they come across for sale less than a couple of times a year at an UNBELIEVABLY low price and they ended up not being perfect on a part that can't even be seen. Yes, the mats may fall apart later, but if you were to take care of them, they would last a long time.
I know that you think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what I said was not what I was thinking I wanted to say or meant.
ummmm.....does that mean that you really weren't complaining about the mats?
I am not trying to bully anyone around. And I would not be pi--ed. $75 is a great deal on those. Ohio has offered to buy them for that price and I will second the offer and would buy them for $75 if for some reason Ohio decides he doesn't want them.
By the way it doesnt matter what his car looks like especially if he is rebuilding it. No one has the right to judge his car on the purchase of a item. Rick
I wasn't judging his car. Heck I was the first one to ask to see it. I always enjoying seeing an Indy, if it is pristine, or if it is being rebuilt. I simply pointed out that the mats that he bought were better than the ones that he currently has and therefore they are an improvement.
Driver stated that he is wanting to get his car show ready so I wanted to see it. The quality of the current pics is low and I am eagerly awaiting to see some good quality ones. I am not juding his car. I am not one to judge a car, as that is not what I do...I enjoy driving them.
I've decided to not spend any more money on it that I don't have to. I spent $85 on the front tag alone. Since this ordeal with the mats, I'm thinking I'll just find a dark red vinyl mat & cut the heel area out of it & glue on my mat. I don't care if it's original or not anymore. I also have: 1) '84 Indy program. 2) '84 ticket. 3) '85 ticket, with pic of Rick Mears ('84 winner) & his car autographed by him. (cost me $50) 4) 3 Indy buttons; one is '84 glow-in-the-dark. 5) "Legends of Indy" card w/'84 pace car. 6) The Inndianapolis Star newspaper the day before the '84 race. Souvenior Edition with all the grid listed & lots of other info (totaly devoted to the race). 7) Article from march '84 Hot Rod magazine entitled "Fast Paced. Hot Lapping Indy in Pontiac's 138-mph Fiero Pace Car". I bought all this shtuff to display with it when I show it. Probably a total waste of money now. I'll spend my money on the other projects from now on. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
If your girlfriend demands that you take her out to some place expensive................... take her to a gas station!!!!
Notice Todd hasn't been back since he posted that screen shot of the email that proved I was right about not requesting the extra photo.... I think that's why he got bent out of shape about me asking him to void the transaction, thinking that I had requested the pic. Haven't heard from at all via email either. Edit: You can never really tell about a paintjob from photos. It *does* need the nose, hood, l.fender, & door re-painted 'cause someone did a lousy job on a previous repair. Most folks wouldn't notice, though. Since I build/paint custom & show cars I noticed right away. You can barely see what's left of the Flag Lot sticker on the 3/4 front pic. It was one of the parade lap cars at the '84 race. ~ Paul aka "Tha Driver"
If guns cause crime, all of mine are defective.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 11-15-2007).]
I am not trying to be ruthless or pi$$ anyone off. I just have some major issues with this entire scenario. One thing that really bakes my potatoes is I did not out bid Paul on these because he was a member of the forum. I debated for several minutes weather or not to snipe him, but felt it better not to. I have 3 sets of these and, as mentioned above by the man from Texas, one set is in a box in my closet. So I decided to pass on them. The auction ended, he won, I thought, sweet they went to a good home for a good price. Then I read this thread saying he got screwed….WTF??? Then I make Paul an offer to receive the mats and if he wasn’t happy I’ll give him what he paid for them “editor’s note…I would be paying for shipping from Todd to Paul and also shipping from Paul to me”. That offer was shot down immediately. Like I said before this was nothing but bad timing with the posting of the pic of the back of the mat. I seriously doubt Todd was trying to get one over on you. But he is trying to get top dollar for the items he is selling, just like every E-Bay seller out there. He has not been on line, probably because he has a life “unlike some of us” and this is a hobby. Don’t get me wrong I’m not butt kissing Todd he has said some things on this forum that has raised my blood pressure. But I read threads all the time from many other members that inflame me. But I just let it go. Remember kids….this place is a playground. Play nice or you will have to stay inside during recess.
I don’t need anymore friends…I have 6…That’s all I need to carry my casket.
[This message has been edited by ohioindy (edited 11-15-2007).]
Tha Driver - nice collection you've got going. Are you REALLY going to let this little incident stop you from showing your car?
It's always fun to show the Indy with all that stuff....don't let the mats become an issue....you appear to have more passion than to let something as simple (yes, simple) as this incident keep you from doing it.
BTW - here is some of my stuff:
If you really have proof that your car was one of the Festival Cars, PLEASE make sure that we get your VIN so that we can get more info on the cars that were at the track for the 500.
Please don't let this floor mat thing allow an Indy to not be shown.
