Take a break, view the threads you like and are a part of, limit the time you're here. Your absence will be missed. Remember your friends here, we're an extended family here, especially sense we know what you look like and have heard your voice. Don't let the few overpower the many.
and as Patrick said in a related thread:
quote
Originally posted by Patrick:
I know exactly what you mean.
There seem to be a few members here who aren’t interested in simply expressing their opinions. No, they wish to take “discussion” a step further at every opportunity to try and embarrass and/or humiliate anyone who doesn’t fit their myopic view of the world.
None of these people are particularly bright, but they are certainly persistent. They pick, pick, pick away until most everyone else just gives up and moves on. I mean seriously, you can only defend yourself in a thread so many times before you realize it’s a complete waste of time to be debating with these particular people.
JazzMan, take the break of which you speak. I did. In my case it was because I was up the coast in the middle of nowhere with no power/computers/internet for eight days. It was wonderful. What a delight not having to worry about responding to insults and nonsense. It’s unfortunate though that a very small number of forum members here can sour the experience for a great many others.
So JazzMan, yes, take the break... but come back when you feel revived. You’re a very valuable asset to this forum (not just in tech) and there would be a huge number of us who would miss your presence here.
You know what though I try to stay as positive as I can and never really post in threads that really drive me crazy as most folks beet me to it but I still dont put my 2 cents in. there are a couple of folks that are very negitive and try to stur the pot everware they can. Remember Falcon4? we have two people that are close to being there. I would not stay where I am agravated personally but its to bad that it has to come to this as the folks that are talking about going I really value what they say.
Really, this is rather ridiculous. Does everyone in here really wear their heart on their sleeve like that? Geez.
Recommended accessories for PFF:
1) Thicker skin 2) Mydol 3) Dr. Phil 4) Kleenex
The people on here that are leaving are good guys, but leaving because the fire got a little hot? Kinda' childish.
You've been here a grand total of four months.
You might think differently if you've had your integrity questioned and been insulted and ridiculed over and over again by the usual group of suspects.
After awhile it gets to the point for some people where they wonder what's the point of sticking around. I don't blame them.
I'm still here after all these years only because I've got nowhere else to go.
There are other Fiero forums (I'm not referring to RFT) where one can go to cool down and to get away from some of the drama that happens on here from time to time. One really can't leave this forum as it is the biggest Fiero forum out there. This also is one of it's pitfalls.
Seems like most of the instigators either post in the "O/T" area, post in the "O/T", "General" occasionally, or simply dont even have a Fiero and post "O/T" starting problems constantly.
ya know folks, we all lose it in one small way or another, whether it be from opinion, experience, trial & error, learning from other peopl's mistakes etc.
i'd say just stay out of off topic. i hardly ever go there myself and i like the forum as a whole better that way. you just have to decide maybe you don't have much in common with the other posters beyond fieros, and leave it at that. talk fieros here, and find some other forum for your internet social life.
Sheesh. Two (that's like, the second smallest number) people decide to leave while about 10 people join every day.
Something is a bit out of perspective here.
But I think what we've lost are two knowledgeable people that have been here on PFF for awhile, and have contributed lots of helpful advice. Out of those 10 people that join everyday, probably not one of them will be as helpful as either of these two.
If I decided to leave PFF and announce it to everyone, no one would really care considering I haven't done much for the boards besides take up space. Lol.
I'll never understand why a member needs to announce they're leaving. Is it ego? Do they think PFF will collapse without them? Do they think members will beg them not to go?
Those that say "I'm leaving" never really leave. They secretly read PFF everyday, hoping someone will mention their name and say "whatever happened to......".
If you want to leave, then just leave. Who cares. You can't please everyone.
Sheesh. Two (that's like, the second smallest number) people decide to leave while about 10 people join every day.
Something is a bit out of perspective here.
Cliff, you know I'm one of your biggest fans, buddy, but I kinda think you're missing something. While there are two members who have noticably left in the past few days, there have been many more that have quietly slunk away. Maybe they've contributed to the forum through TD&Q. Maybe they've contributed by selling some rare parts in The Mall. Maybe they've contributed by posting creative ways of modifying something here in GFC. Maybe they (I'm thinking of me here) have contributed to the forum by (trying to) inject a bit of humor in TO/T. (On the other hand, there are a few who have left who won't be missed.) I can think of a dozen or so (and there are probably many more I'm not thinking of) who just don't post much any more mainly because of the occasional BS.
I know there are new faces every day, but how many stay? How many of us have stayed here through thick and thin, no matter what? Out of over 16,000 official members (and that is alot any way you look at it), how many have posted more than, say, 100 times?
Just some random thoughts. Don't get me wrong. I generally enjoy the forum, but I've been known to take a break every now and then.
For those who have made the comment that some members need to get a thicker skin, stop. A thicker skin shouldn't be a requirement for membership. I can take alot but that doesn't mean that I want to hear a bunch of BS towards me (or anybody else). PFF is supposed to be enjoyable. What's the point if you have to "suffer through"?
Just my $0.02US ($0.25CN)
[This message has been edited by Monkeyman (edited 08-20-2008).]
liff, you know I'm one of your biggest fans, buddy, but I kinda think you're missing something. While there are two members who have noticably left in the past few days, there have been many more that have quietly slunk away. Maybe they've contributed to the forum through TD&Q. Maybe they've contributed by selling some rare parts in The Mall. Maybe they've contributed by posting creative ways of modifying something here in GFC. Maybe they (I'm thinking of me here) have contributed to the forum by (trying to) inject a bit of humor in TO/T. (On the other hand, there are a few who have left who won't be missed.) I can think of a dozen or so (and there are probably many more I'm not thinking of) who just don't post much any more mainly because of the occasional BS.
I never said I won't miss them (although a lot of them who left, were also responsible for much of the controversy over in TO/T).
I'm only saying that just because a few of the, let's say, more "visible" members are leaving, people are shouting "oh noes! it's the end of the forum as we know it!". Seriously, there are many, many, many more very helpful people here that don't get any credit whatsoever just because they never post in TO/T. So saying we (PFF) have lost a lot of tech knowledge because these few people left, is an insult to those who are sticking around and are just as knowledgeable.
But I also realize that most of the people that shout "PFF isn't the place it used to be, let's move on to other forums" are the same people that have been shouting that every time PFF changes font faces.
Because, let's face it, PFF is exactly what is has always been: whatever its members make of it as opposed to whatever its moderator(s) make(s) of it. Heck, if it were up to me, a lot of people would have been out of here a loooooong time ago. But I'm working on several things that will give the members more moderating power.
I'm only saying that just because a few of the, let's say, more "visible" members are leaving, people are shouting "oh noes! it's the end of the forum as we know it!". Seriously, there are many, many, many more very helpful people here that don't get any credit whatsoever just because they never post in TO/T. So saying we (PFF) have lost a lot of tech knowledge because these few people left, is an insult to those who are sticking around and are just as knowledgeable.
You have a point there. I don't visit TD&Q any longer since I don't currently own a Fiero and don't know much about the mechanicals of them. All I really visit is GFC and TO/T these days. I can still appreciate the wealth of knowledge (and those willing to give it) found in TD&Q. I'm just saying that we've lost some tech knowledge because a few folks have left.
quote
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock:
Because, let's face it, PFF is exactly what is has always been: whatever its members make of it as opposed to whatever its moderator(s) make(s) of it. Heck, if it were up to me, a lot of people would have been out of here a loooooong time ago. But I'm working on several things that will give the members more moderating power.
I think this is part of the problem. Some of the current members seem to have a "hard side". If someone is complaining about, um, let's say, a POS car they bought (and I was complaining about it too much), they shouldn't have to listen to comments that could be construed as mean. You know. It's like the old saying, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". Constructive criticism is great. A comment like, "Quit your whining, you baby!" is neither constructive nor helpful. (Although, in all fairness, it did help me to "see the light".)
Perhaps I'm just rambling because it's way past my bedtime. All in all, I love the forum. I'll be here (with a few breaks now and then) for as long as it's around. I really do appreciate all the hard work that goes into every aspect of the forum both from you as a moderator to the newest member who can add just the tiniest bit of new info.
i was taught that if you didnt have nothing nice to say, dont say nothing at all.
now with that being said, it s a shame ANYONE would feel unwelcome/the need to leave because of anyone else.
the people who are "leaving" have helped many people here, and will be missed. (and yes, i know there are others here who help, and deserve mention too, but they are not the ones in topic atm)
Well, I think one of the problems is that once you have received a certain amount of positive ratings, it's nearly impossible to get banned, even if you have more negative ratings than positive. For some this means there's no longer an incentive to "play nice".
What, I don't know as much about forums as you because I've only been here "a grand total of four months"? I may be new to Pennock's, but I'm not new to forums. Nor am I new to negative people in them. I've been on ATV forums for years and see people from all different walks of life. But really, why are people on a freaking forum worried about people questioning their integrity? They don't make your dinner and they don't sign your paycheck so why do you care what they say? I say if you feel the need to leave, then leave, but don't post woe is me threads. But then again, maybe my opinion doesn't matter since I have a grand total of four months on this forum and don't underline words.
Well, I think one of the problems is that once you have received a certain amount of positive ratings, it's nearly impossible to get banned, even if you have more negative ratings than positive. For some this means there's no longer an incentive to "play nice".
But I'm working on a solution for that.
I don't know that the system needs a lot of changing...if any at all. I try to play nice whenever I can and try to keep my ratings as positive as possible. Every time an insugent gets banned it tends to clean things up around here anyway.
What, I don't know as much about forums as you because I've only been here "a grand total of four months"? .
You don’t know squat about THIS forum, it’s history, and/or the people who’ve contributed to it over the last nine years.
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:
But really, why are people on a freaking forum worried about people questioning their integrity?
Perhaps it means nothing to you, but for a great many people, integrity is everything. Whether it’s their own or someone else’s, it’s something of great value. Most people don’t like having their’s questioned or disparaged, especially if it’s being done by the same individuals on a regular basis for no valid reason.
quote
Originally posted by Hulki U. My-BFF:
But then again, maybe my opinion doesn't matter since I have a grand total of four months on this forum and don't underline words.
Your opinion doesn’t matter if you’re just trying to be a smart-ass.
That would be 14 threads a week. 13 of those threads are about what's being said/done on this Forum.
Sure glad they were able to declare their independence.
Funny thing is that they can't even stay on topic in their own bashing threads.
A bunch of losers for sure.
Archie
yay, archie called me a loser again!!! didn't you just further this thread in going off topic?
not why i'm here though. i know i'm labeled as a RFT troll, but i've never been fond of the ratings system. other members have to ban you opposed to a select few with the given right. forums, much like real life rely on feeling connected to other people. sharing common wants and goals. well that works both ways. bashing and liking kind of all rolled into one. you bash one guy on here means you get negged by his 50 buddies and bam. you're gone.
jazzman is one of the few members that i think goes above and beyond a typical forum member. i've gone through multiple posts of people asking questions or for pictures. before the day is out. their question will be answered and a picture will be placed when requested. he is an asset to the board. it would be a shame if he didn't come back.
Jazzman is a great guy and will be a loss to all members. I generaly stay out of the trashing threads, so I don't know what caused him to get out. When the trashing and burning starts I leave the thread and stay away from it. So I don't know who the "evil ones" are. I do know Jazz will be missed. I for one will be sorry to have him opt out of this forum. Joe Crawford Texas
Cliff---Why not set a time limit on ratings? After a certain period of time (maybe a year?), they would expire. I'll bet there are many around here who have given a rating, then not only forgotten that they rated a certain member but also forgot why. I think that alot of the ratings are either due to popularity or are from someone who is just being hateful. I'll use myself as an example. I've received a new (probably negative) rating in the past few hours. I know what threads I've posted in and I don't think I've come across as being rude or hateful in any way. Whoever just rated me did so due to retaliation/meanness/spite. I don't know who did it, nor do I care but I'll bet my left sock that, in 6 months, he will either have forgotten that he rated me and/or will have forgotten why. At the other end of the spectrum, I've rated (positively) a few members (one in particular) who are known to be slightly "irritating" but they have always treated me with what I consider to be respect, even if our opinions have differed. What about those whose ratings bar is in the "dangerously red" zone but who have "changed their evil ways"? I think they should get a second chance.
Here's another idea. What about making it impossible to rate someone who just rated you for a certain period? Here's my thinking about this. It might encourage those that negatively rate others (even, or maybe especially when it's called for) to confront the ratee without retaliation. For example, if I think you deserve a negative, I could PM/email you and let you know why you got a rating without the fear of having you rate me negatively just out of retaliation. (Similar to some of the BS eBay ratings.) This way you would know what you did wrong (in my eyes) and would have the opportunity to change it.
Better yet, why not do away with the rating system completely (except for the short term speed banning)?
Personally, I couldn't care less about what my ratings bar looks like as long as I feel that I'm being respectful of others thoughts/feelings and show that in my posts. I happen to give positive ratings just because somebody has been respectful, even if their opinion has differed greatly from mine. The only negative ratings I've had (or currently have) in my list are those that have been banned long ago.
I was surprised to see my post quoted here from O/T, but thank-you Gokart for feeling it was worthwhile repeating.
I might just add for anyone who may be interested that the original thread is Here.
Did I miss something? I guess Jazzman got into a heated discussion with someone in T/OT? I rarely go there unless someone sends me a link to something of great interest. I know Jazzman was very active in T/OT and most respected his opinion even if they didn't agree. There is not a lot of value in arguing on the internet, so I try to stay out of it.
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: Because, let's face it, PFF is exactly what is has always been: whatever its members make of it as opposed to whatever its moderator(s) make(s) of it. Heck, if it were up to me, a lot of people would have been out of here a loooooong time ago. But I'm working on several things that will give the members more moderating power.
Yep, maybe that's why I'm addicted. I would like to see a little button that would allow enough members to click on it and send a topic to the trash can instead of hoping Cliff will see the stuff. Maybe limit the numbers of trash can votes a person can use in a certain time frame. I really try to stay out of the flame wars and unless it is a topic close to my heart, I am fairly successful. I think.
Ron
[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 08-20-2008).]
The OT forum is a jungle. You can and will get people who post with opposing views to you. Some people are not used to this and take it personally so they consider it a personal attack. Maybe there needs to be a primer on what is a person attack and what is not?
A personal attack is an attack on the individual that is making a statement or argument.
Examples:
"I would expect that answer from someone of your sexual orientation."
"If you had half a brain, you would not do that."
"So-and-so is a crook that ripped me off!"
Debating a subject means you discuss the ideas or statements that are brought up in a discussion.
Examples:
"I do not agree with your method. I prefer to do it this way..."
"That idea is wrong. It has failed in the past repeatedly and will fail again."
"The XXXXX party is doing this. I feel it is wrong. This will cause a number of problems such as....."
I have noticed that a number of posters cannot distinguish between a personal attack on them and debating their ideas. If you think your ideas are right, then defend them. If you think that someone saying you are wrong is a personal attack, then there is not much that can be done for you. You will even get offended in the general and tech sections when someone disagrees with you. It may be best to just not post at all if you feel that someone questioning your ideas is a personal attack.
I'm not saying anyone who is leaving is doing it. But some people feel a tone change and that they need to go to a place where people think like they do, they can't deal with other points of view. They either bicker and name call, and/or eventually leave.
Who knows maybe they just got a life!
[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 08-20-2008).]
While I partially agree with what Doug is saying, I think it`s awfully arrogant to say someone is wrong. That automatically makes you look like you feel you are an expert on something unless you really are and you have proof of that. I rather tend to be diplomatic when I disagree with someone and say "I think differently than you" rather than flat out call them wrong. After all, throughout history I`m sure many "experts" told other people that they were wrong about an idea or that it would never work and that person ended up sucessful with their idea.
All in all, I love the forum. I'll be here (with a few breaks now and then) for as long as it's around. I really do appreciate all the hard work that goes into every aspect of the forum both from you as a moderator to the newest member who can add just the tiniest bit of new info.
