The pictures are on the first page and you guys are still arguing. They can be made to fit just like I made them fit but they will require a lot of adjustment. As far as the crooked roofs go, I tend to believe it has more to do with the hard top vs sunroof, they aren't perfect from the factory and don't even match the rear clip on a stock hard top fiero. There is a huge bubble in the middle and curves down to the rear where it meets the rear hoop and levels out. Believe me I've fought the battle and have looked at a lot a cars. Now stop acting like babys, if you want pictures to show what needs to be cut to make them fit let me know.
I agree it's time to stop arguing, I'm no closer to glass now than before. What I need is if someone knows of a place that can make the glass fit or close to it ( not 355 glass, I don't like the cut) please just pm me.
http://www.curvedglass.com/ Here you go. I know it's not safety but it's also not tempered. Order a piece. Take it somewhere local and have them cut out the shape you want, drill a couple holes and send it in to be tempered. Just tell them it's for a china cabinet. If you want something with a DOT sticker then just go through the same company Mike did. Maybe the curves won't be perfect but you can get the shape perfect. It isn't nearly as complicated as you guys make it out to be.
I did on my first chop yes. If you give you your email address you will see where I need to move the seal to center it on the glass on this chop. I also need to trim the door a little more because the plastic window mount rubs. Once I center the glass the gap will be hidden by the 1/4 window and nobody will know. edit because I actualy bought 3 roof sections trying to fight the bulge in the center of the roof I was talking about before. Still to this day it's not as good as I wanted it. This car I got perfect though.
[This message has been edited by joshua riedl (edited 08-24-2008).]
Can Mike's windows be installed...obviously anything's possible. Would be be perfect? Obviously not. Good enough? Hard to say.
There is only one way to find out---Have Mike install the windows you have from him in your car and see. The offer is out there, its just waiting on you to accept.
Being that you have critiqued so many of Archies chops, I'm sure you have pic's to show these imperfections, right?
I'm still looking for the post that Archie even mentioned NTFC unless your saying that all Texans that drive a Fiero belong to NTFC.
Why would she have any reason to make all this up? Her opinion in probally one of the most unbiased ones you will find on this topic.
When you mention Texas Fiero Clubs there is only one that comes to everyones mind and that is NTFC. We are the only active Fiero club that is in the whole state of Texas.
And when you get your car back from the shop, guess what? Your car will have the same flaws in it as the others do.
There is only one way to find out---Have Mike install the windows you have from him in your car and see. The offer is out there, its just waiting on you to accept.
Isn't that venture redundent, for all of Archie's choptops are the same. The sample that was sent to the glass shop was test fitted on several choptops in house (#020, #21, #022). Granted, a few items have improved over the years (interior pieces made of fiberglass, roof dip-corrections, speaker re-location ex...) and now sun roof correction. If the sample used cannot be 100% made to perfection, I'd be happy with a bit more curvature and a better fit vs. F355's glass. Will it involve some "tweaking"? No doubt yes, but it would be less if the curvature is increased and a true fit around the upper B-pillar corner. As for F355's glass, IMO it's a good start, but like anything else one can improve upon a original idea, especially since all 25 V8 Archie choptops are created equal and are not compatable with homebrew choptops.
Archie is currently on a delivery vacation, so will let is own words speak for themselves.
quote
Originally posted by Archie:
The planning & design work we did before building our 1st chop top was very extensive. That planning worked out to be pretty good considering that we've now built 20+ of them that are exactly the same as the 1st one. We spent more time planning the method of our chop top than most couples spend deciding to have children. In the end, that planning has been proven by the test of time & function.
As far as putting down homebrew chops, you've never seen me do that. I'm a lot like Curley, I love them all. However, a chop that widens the roof or uses a different windshield, is not for me. Bless the people doing it, but it's not for me. I have to admit that I've had some phone conversations where the caller & I have discussed why some people chop their tops in a certain way. It's almost like some don't even think their way thru something before they start cutting. They don't ask themselves "is this the best way to do it?".
You might have said that I charge too much for chop tops. To build a chop top that is a complete product that I can be proud of with well finished interior & the welding & body work done just right is a looser at the $3995 that I have been charging. Will Martin built his own chop & he was the 1st to tell you that he'd not do another one for that price. As we approach #25 I can tell you that the price is going to go up a bit to reflect what it really costs to build a finished product & pay the bills while doing it.
Archie
------------------
"Friends don't let friends drive stock"
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 08-24-2008).]
http://www.curvedglass.com/ Here you go. I know it's not safety but it's also not tempered. Order a piece. Take it somewhere local and have them cut out the shape you want, drill a couple holes and send it in to be tempered.
You honestly expect someone to have a china cabinet glass making company cut curved glass to fit a chop top?? And then somehow cut holes in it and temper it? And that's easy? I'd like to see that process demonstrated before I throw my hard earned money at it. I think it's every bit as hard as we are making it.
The reason I bumped this thread was to talk about making new glass. I appreciate the suggestion, but it doesn't sound too practical.
Right now I'm just trying to make my car reliable enough to drive, not interested in taking it apart and cutting on it. But that day may eventually get here.
As for the bickering, name calling and insults, I would prefer you guys take that somewhere else. It's not helping the chop top owners to get glass.
yes, glass can be cut and sent in for tempering, I've done it twice and it's not that dramatic. I dont' think it's a good idea to install cabinet glass but you are being unreasonable. You can't have it cheap any other way. You can have it DOT approved but you will have to pay. i dont' have anymore advise for you other than the answer to your problems is staring at you every time you open your closet door.
Why would she have any reason to make all this up? Her opinion in probally one of the most unbiased ones you will find on this topic.
When you mention Texas Fiero Clubs there is only one that comes to everyones mind and that is NTFC. We are the only active Fiero club that is in the whole state of Texas.
And when you get your car back from the shop, guess what? Your car will have the same flaws in it as the others do.
1. Show me the post that Archie mentions Texas Fiero Clubs. 2. I'm sure when I show my car the first thing people will see is this flaw. 3. are you saying that the factory roof of our Fiero is perfect? 4. BTW you are on this thread because you have a choptop right? I'm sure it's not just to start sh@t with Archie.
[This message has been edited by troyboy (edited 08-25-2008).]
Why would she have any reason to make all this up? Her opinion in probally one of the most unbiased ones you will find on this topic. And when you get your car back from the shop, guess what? Your car will have the same flaws in it as the others do.
Nope--The flaw is on the pass side NB area and can be seen easly if standing behind the car. If there is a picture of the car from behind then it can be seen. I have no reason to make this up and 2 others have already seen the same thing.
1. Show me the post that Archie mentions Texas Fiero Clubs. 2. I'm sure when I show my car the first thing pepole will see is this flaw. 3. are you saying that the factory roof of our Fiero is perfect? 4. BTW you are on this thread because you have a choptop right? I'm sure it's not just to start sh@t with Archie.
Pay attention high speed here is what he said:
"What do you guys do when you all get together? Do you sit around & laugh at all of Loyde's customers who have cars & projects sitting around there?"
Since the car he is talking about is from Texas, I am from Texas and the way he put his statement above, its only obvious that he is talking about Texas. As you can see that many others have keyed in on the statement and knows he is talking about the Texas club. If you missed that point them is doesn't suprise me being you have on your Archee blinders.
I am sure no one will say anything about the flaws to you in person as most people think it is rude. But as you can see in this Thread, some have came out with things they have seen wrong with others cars. Nothing wrong with having a flawed car as most cars are flawed in many ways. It does suck to have mucho money invested in a car and for it to still have flaws. But you have to learn the hard way sometimes.
The flaw in the NB chops that I have brought up has nothing to do with the roof line. The flaw is in the pass NB area that doesnt match the other side.
Yes I have a choptop--The chop was performed on a 88 T-Top of mine. I have video documentation of it when I was doing it.
I am sure no one will say anything about the flaws to you in person as most people think it is rude.
Actually, [we] do. However, it's done in a constructive- adult manor through PMs, over the phone, or sometimes in person. In Will-Martin's case if there's issues involving then you or someone else should have informed him. If someone has a bugger in his/her nose you don't need to post it on the forum. You walk up and tell them.
Originally posted by troyboy: I'm still looking for the post that Archie even mentioned NTFC...(snip)
Ok, here.
quote
snipped from Archie, bold added for emphasis: "...your jabbering reveils that you & a few other TX Fiero people still have easy access to a guy that many other Fiero people on this Forum would like to talk to.
What do you guys do when you all get together? Do you sit around & laugh at all of Loyde's customers who have cars & projects sitting around there? "
Troy, most PFF'ers know Loyde is from North Texas, and for several years was our President and WebMaster. I feel like the club affiliation was implied, and really don't appreciate it either. That would be like a dis-satisfied Archie customer getting Hallman, Vargyas, or Oreif from NIFE drive out and intercede...
Truly ridiculous.
quote
Originally posted by troyboy: (snip)... unless your saying that all Texans that drive a Fiero belong to NTFC.
NO!... That is FLAT wrong!!!
We say that ALL owners of Fiero's belong to NTFC!
( <---- suddenly finds himself President of the largest Fiero club in existance)
Sorry J... Troy asked twice, nicely. Thought I'd oblige him with an answer. Please continue this fascinating topic... I am just saddened that after sitting in Leroy's (and of course your's and the GBCT...), that I simply do not fit in a chopper. Although thinking it about it... I think all of those Fiero's had sunroofs... maybe I'd fit in a car w/o sunroof?... or maybe I could convince Archie to do a 2" chop?
Originally posted by madcurl: Actually, [we] do. However, it's done in a constructive- adult manor through PMs, over the phone, or sometimes in person. In Will-Martin's case if there's issues involving then you or someone else should have informed him. If someone has a bugger in his/her nose you don't need to post it on the forum. You walk up and tell them.
I did inform him in a PM first and did not bring it up in this Thread. If you read back, you will see that Archee brought up whos car it was and put his name out there. So you should be telling this statement to Archee and not me.
Now I just look like a dumb President of the Largest Fiero Club ever...
Thanks Poe. BTW, you're out... form your own club. Go-Go or somesuch... Gay Old Greenville Owners...
(I truly crack myself up...)
Did you edit your post or did I just miss the whole Gay Old Greenville Owners comment. If that what it takes to get a Greenville Movie Night then I might just have to.
I got rid of it shortly after I done the chop. It got parted out all over the place. Amber has the video of it getting chopped.
I'd be interested to see how you did it.... Ironically the chop top t-top I sold was missing GLASS!! I had a rear wind cut for it, but it lacked side windows and a windshield. I planned to use Mike's windows for the side, but lack of a suitable windshield made me lose interest.
Now can we PLEASE get back on topic???? There are 25 of us that would like to discuss glass, not crooked roofs.
I don't think anyone expects you to front $100K for the tooling to make glass windows exactly like the chop top windows we presently have today.
But I know this is painful to consider, but it might be possible to get an acceptable fit with a barrel curve, with a tighter radius than Mike's windows, maybe less than the current windows, but still better thank Mike's. It might not be a drop in replacement, but it might be possible to do it without making it look like a hack job.
Yes, every one of your customers accepted the current windows when we agreed to have chop tops. But that doesn't mean that we can't dream for something better. Maybe the dream is just a dream, but Mike's windows, as imperfect as they are, CAN be made to work at some level. I have to believe that a second iteration would be better.
I have a set of Mike's windows in my parts room, and as much as the idea pains me, if a better set of chop top windows never materializes one of these days I will install the imperfect glass.
By the way, I went back to see where I said anything bad about Mike's windows, and I see where some people might have mis-interpreted my comments... I called them imperfect. I didn't mean to imply there is anything wrong with them. They are beautiful windows, very fine craftsmanship. I mean that they would be an imperfect fit in my car. We all know the right way to do it is like Mike did to fit the car to the glass. Like I said my car is done and it's too late to reshape the car. When I talked about the hack job I was referring to me messing up my car trying to make the windows fit, again, nothing bad should be implied about the glass itself.
Archie had us guessing for MONTHS about the 3 secret mods... we were all over the place...
Some shots I pulled of the back...
Reckon it's hard to tell much w/o breaking out a ruler... camera lenses can do funny things... (like add 10lbs... or in my case, about 50lbs)...
If the defect does not show in these pic's, I guess I can live with them. Nothing and no one is perfect to the mm. BTW I still think Archie was talking about a few people from Texas and not all that participate in your club. Hell, even I have special thoughts about a particular member of your club but feel that most are cool people.
Since my car is part of the discussion, I will pipe in. I have no idea what the hell your are talking about. I guess I WILL live with whatever it is. I do happen to be somewhat anal and a perfectionist when it comes to my things. Hence the all new paint job.
I would not put a whole lot of value on what was seen at the 25th. Remember, paint was less than 48 hours old and not done. Body panels were loose and not firmly attached. The B pillars glass with arrowhead logos were not attached at all due to the need to re-paint and I merely layed them into place via friction fit. Everytime a door was opened they shifted. The only issue I have is with the passenger side A pillar body panel work is noticeable in that is does not run straight when the two pieces of body panel were cut and patched. I will also add the the Stage 3 scoops may be adding to the look as the were not good fits and required some work by Archies crew, I am pleased with what they did.
Since my car is part of the discussion, I will pipe in. I have no idea what the hell your are talking about. I guess I WILL live with whatever it is. I do happen to be somewhat anal and a perfectionist when it comes to my things. Hence the all new paint job.
I would not put a whole lot of value on what was seen at the 25th. Remember, paint was less than 48 hours old and not done. Body panels were loose and not firmly attached. The B pillars glass with arrowhead logos were not attached at all due to the need to re-paint and I merely layed them into place via friction fit. Everytime a door was opened they shifted. The only issue I have is with the passenger side A pillar body panel work is noticeable in that is does not run straight when the two pieces of body panel were cut and patched. I will also add the the Stage 3 scoops may be adding to the look as the were not good fits and required some work by Archies crew, I am pleased with what they did.
Jeff
As long as you are happy with the car then thats all that matters.
It looks just like the Stinger does if you look at it from behind at a distance. It is very obvious when looking at the car from str8 on from the back side. Not forsure why the NB chops turn out like this but I am guessing wrong measurments.
quote
Originally posted by MstangsBware:
As long as you are happy with the car then thats all that matters.
Wrong measurements (as you're calling it) that are so obvious all could see if viewed from the rear, but some how the pictures nor the owner of the Stinger couldn't demonstrate the "obvious."
Dude, you've been "OWND." Redeem yourself by helping Will-Martin retrive his choptop. Until then, please by-pass this thread. Your comments are not welcomed.
Wrong measurements (as you're calling it) that are so obvious all could see if viewed from the rear, but some how the pictures nor the owner of the Stinger couldn't demonstrate the "obvious."
Dude, you've been "OWND." Redeem yourself by helping Will-Martin retrive his choptop. Until then, please by-pass this thread. Your comments are not welcomed.
I wasn't going to say anything else about this being JScott is wanting to get back to the topic of this Thread. But since for some reason you think I am lieing about this issue. Take a look at picture #3 and if you look at the Pass NB pillar coming down you will see that it lays over more than the DRV side. This is even more noticable in person than in the pictures. I am sure in the near future that I can get pictures of Will's car and also have several others look at the car and see the same issue. Maybe you will believe me once Will Martin comes in the Thread and says it himself or will you still continue to beleive its all made up? I know its hard to believe that Archee makes mistakes but no one is perfect.
I don't see it in the pictures at all, but its still hard to ignore the 3 people saying its off. The truth is that the only problem here is if the owners of the chops have a problem with the roof of there cars being a noticeable amount off.
Dude, you've been "OWND." Redeem yourself by helping Will-Martin retrive his choptop. Until then, please by-pass this thread. Your comments are not welcomed.
Unless you took a measuring tape to the cars in question then STFU. Your a respected member of this forum, but that post was totally uncalled for.
Unless you took a measuring tape to the cars in question then STFU. Your a respected member of this forum, but that post was totally uncalled for.
I don't know about "a respected member" here, but there is one thing I'm sure of, "I have three V8Archie choptops" and that my friend allows for room to speak on this issue. So unless you have (in your words) "took a measuring tape" with documentation aided by pics then you my friend should STFU.
I find it interesting that you and others bring up the subject regarding "obvious issues" w/o any documentation and then hide when picks are shown of the Stinger that demonstrate otherwise. No picks, no ruler, nor any documentation just plan old mouthing off on the subject at hand.
quote
Originally posted by jmbishop:
I don't see it in the pictures at all, but its still hard to ignore the 3 people saying its off.
Now isn't that something. And you're telling me to STFU.
Since class in is secession I ask you, "What stage of completion was Will-Martin choptop when it left Archie's shop?" If you don't know the answer to this question then STFU.
Edit: I can't spell when I'm laughing while typing.
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 08-25-2008).]
I wasn't going to say anything else about this being JScott is wanting to get back to the topic of this Thread.
I give up...
Joshua and I had to take this conversation to PMs as this thread has been overrun with off-topic bickering. Oh well, time to move along. Nothing to see here.
Originally posted by madcurl: I don't know about "a respected member" here, but there is one thing I'm sure of, "I have three V8Archie choptops" and that my friend allows for room to speak on this issue. So unless you have (in your words) "took a measuring tape" with documentation aided by pics then you my friend should STFU.
I find it interesting that you and others bring up the subject regarding "obvious issues" w/o any documentation and then hide when picks are shown of the Stinger that demonstrate otherwise. No picks, no ruler, nor any documentation just plan old mouthing off on the subject at hand.
Now isn't that something. And you're telling me to STFU.
Since class in is secession I ask you, "What stage of completion was Will-Martin choptop when it left Archie's shop?" If you don't know the answer to this question then STFU.
Edit: I can't spell when I'm laughing while typing.
None of us have anything to gain from Archie's chops being off, and even if a few are a little off it really only matters to the owner of the cars. Neither of us have documentation and your trying to jump in without th information sitting in your garage. Like I keep saying I haven't and don't see it,I have seen the car at Loyde's but didn't payed much attention to it when I had the chance but there are three other who said they have. You could do us a favor and take a measuring tape to the 2 of yours you have access to. You have the ability so why not entertain us? If I owned a Archie chop as long as it wasn't to far off I think I could live with it. With wills permission if I'm ever able to get close to his car I will measure it if no one else has. If we're going to keep talking about this it need to go to PMs or start a new thread.
NOW who won't let the thread get back on topic! lol...
Jon, that is awesome... exactly something that I would expect from a NASA engineer... but I see something wrong in your 'Y' sub1 calculation... j/k I don't even know what that is. "Pie are round and Cornbread are square."
Since we had already come so far with talking about NB's and rear angles, I wanted to see if archived pics showed anything, as opposed to just guessing at it. I am sure the thread is getting back on track... and now you've got some nice shots of the Stinger as decoration...
Man, go ahead and have the glass discussion. Taking it to PM's would leave us all less enlightened.
This shot may not be perfect, but I broke out the ruler and the stinger is dead on... I don't see the problem.
Well as good as it looks you cant go off a picture, tape it and say its perfect. The one thing I did forsure at the 25th was go look at the Stinger for the same issue as Will's car. I mean its not like I am making all this up just to have something to talk about and get war going on. Hell if I wanted to do that I would bring up how slow and behind in times Archee's swaps are. I will leave the whole lopesided NB issue alone until I see the car again and not only have picture proof but several witnesses and hell I will even break out the ruler. But in the end, I will be right and all the folks who cant stand for the "KING" to be wrong will see.
[This message has been edited by MstangsBware (edited 08-26-2008).]
Well as good as it looks you cant go off a picture, tape it and say its perfect.
Yeah I know at this resolution, one pixel is probably a 1/4 inch or more. But my point is that it's not terrible obvious to the casual observer either. And none of the NB owners themselves have seen it either.
