*EDIT* Why haven't you Dallas guys tried to get involved in this yet out of curiousity? Does he make sure not to screw the Dallas people over?
I typed this response a few years ago when Madcurl suggested that local club members do 'an act of kindness' and help Will retrieve his car...
I think it still applies today... and not just for this situation, but any similar situation... I even tried to list pertinant forum examples... but being that this post was a few years ago... their significance may be lost on someone who has only been here a year or two. The message is still the same though, and I still feel the same way. Emotionally it doesn't feel right... but logically, and legally... I think you will see why 'Dallas guys haven't tried to get involved.'
And this is not just some excuse(s)... this is how I grappled with the situation. Welcome to my mind.
"...(snip start) Do you get a thrill when you read someone has trouble with Chris or WCF? Goose flesh when PR gets behind on having mounts in stock? Warm & Fuzzy when AusFiero had trouble getting product made or shipped to the US?
Well, Neither do we.
So what exactly is the role of a local club in vendor/customer trouble?
How about, NONE.
...(snip)...
The function of a club is not to make sure satisfaction is found amongst two contracting parties. In this age of an overly litigious society, can you imagine the legal ramifications and the liability risk that a club might face for trying to take action for either party? I can't think of any club that would do that!
But damn the legal issue, Let's just say that you honestly think that it is a clubs' or even a local citizens, responsibility to intercede on a contractual dispute that they had no association with, other than just mere bodily proximity.
(scenario): You (being anyone) walk onto a person's property uninvited. You are TRESPASSING. Now you have exposed yourself to Criminal activity. Repeated phone calls on a situation that does not involve you can be HARASSMENT. Just mentioning it verbally might be construed as SLANDER. Typing about it on the internet might be considered LIBEL.
And you wonder WHY someone is silent in a thread?
"But Blake, you can't honestly believe that stating facts in a thread is Libel. Or visiting someone is Trespass." No, I don't, but it really doesn't matter what I think if someone angry enough hauls my butt or me as a President of a club to court to try and prove my stance. I can barely afford gas, much less a lawyer!
But wait, there's more! as if Legel ramifications or a Criminal record weren't incentive enough to keep your nose out of someone elses business, my state has something called the 'Castle Law.' Loosely, it means that a property owner has the right to defend his or her home and property by any means necessary. Including lethal force.
"But Blake, you can't honestly think that someone would shoot you for walking around their property?" No, I don't, but weighing an already upset person's mood (as most contracts gone bad usually have angry people) versus my life is a no brainer. It ain't gonna happen.
Now if local buddy Will, or any visitor to my fair state, asked me to come along as moral support or load a vehicle or somesuch while they try to resolve an unenviable task. Well, I'd not sleep right at night if I said "no." But taking action independent and with disregard to existing laws and dispute resolution channels is not my, not yours, not any club's responsibility. Ever.
Just give me one more second of latitude here: 2 examples of why what you say is so ridiculous.
1) Is it Andrew's (F-I-E-R-O) neighbors' or his church's responsibility to try and force him to make badges as someone in The Mall suggested? (I understand desperate times require yadda yadda, but that is absurd!) 2) Is it Ed Park's place to force MsLori to finish her window project or refund the money? You know the answer.
In all cases, it is up to the contracting parties to meet the terms and obligations. If not, it is up to the courts to find satisfaction.
Not your neighbor. Not your boss. Not a proximity located body. Not a club."
I hope that answers your question fully.
------------------ <---- did you buy Cliff a beer?
The same reason you haven't, the Houston guys haven't nor the people from New York, ect......This transation has nothing to do with anyone but the owner and the swapper.....
Edit....What are you going to do help this guy out since you are so concerned with helping out?
And you wonder why I "called you into" the other thread by name. Condoning is almost as bad as the original unethical act. Your indifference is the exact same thing. Regardless of what you claim, you come to his defense in any thread you can, and every time you do, it makes me think even less of you.
Blake, while I completely understand your points, although I do disagree that nothing can be done. No one said to go to Loyde's place on your own accord, but turning a blind eye to his business practices isn't exactly excusable either. There are ways to help the victims without putting yourself in harm's way legally or physically. There is the BBB, the DA, and the Attorney General's offices which should be involved by now. When you commit fraud over the internet and across state lines, it is a federal offense. If someone were to help the victims coordinate and approach the correct people, it would more than resolve the situation. Loyde would be put away and his business would be sold off piece by piece to make restitution to the victims. This has happened for people ripped off through Ebay and Craigslist and many other venues. The fact that he hasn't been banned by the members here is condoning his behavior. the whole "I don't have a dog in this fight" thing is cowardice and apathetic at best.
I am not singling you out Blake, as I personally do not have any negative judgments towards you. I am however tired of the attitude on here from people saying it wasn't them that got ripped off so they can't even try to make things better. I guess it's a good thing people stopped doing that long enough to make a difference in Tyler's life. They could have easily said it wasn't them or someone they knew right? I just don't understand why it took a terminal illness to get people involved in someone else's misfortune. I've done what I can through the board here by rating Loyde with a (-). I've also tried to get people to see that he will continue to do this to others if he is given access to this board and should be denied this opportunity. I'm also willing to help anyone coordinate a plan to get his ass thrown in jail on a federal fraud charge. That's a hell of a lot more than I've seen from most of the members on here, and I also "don't have a dog in this fight".
And you wonder why I "called you into" the other thread by name. Condoning is almost as bad as the original unethical act. Your indifference is the exact same thing. Regardless of what you claim, you come to his defense in any thread you can, and every time you do, it makes me think even less of you.
Blake, while I completely understand your points, although I do disagree that nothing can be done. No one said to go to Loyde's place on your own accord, but turning a blind eye to his business practices isn't exactly excusable either. There are ways to help the victims without putting yourself in harm's way legally or physically. There is the BBB, the DA, and the Attorney General's offices which should be involved by now. When you commit fraud over the internet and across state lines, it is a federal offense. If someone were to help the victims coordinate and approach the correct people, it would more than resolve the situation. Loyde would be put away and
I only read about a 1/4 of what you wrote cause it is just blah blah blah...What you think of me does not bother me at all as I am not the type of person who lives to please others, espically those on th internet.
My question to you is..What are you doing as a fellow Texan to help this cause. I mean if it is up to Dallas area folks to help then I would think it is every Texans job..So please post on what you did to help.....
I would think with the problems you are having getting your swap complete that you would be more focused on your own problems.....2 months is now 7 months...7 months turns into a year...and so on.....I mean your swap is being done by a shop with many skilled people so what is taking so long?
OMG, I just read all 12 pages of this thread... yes, I have avoided it for this long...
NoGoFast Fieros... your mom shoud straight up biatch slap you for what you have done. Did she not teach you morals/standards?! You have absolutely NO PLACE HERE in this forum, or this world of Fieros. You are sickening, to the pit of my stomach.
Yeah, I have had no dealings with you, but I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO POST HERE.
I also am highly concerned with your self righteous desire to talk crap about Archie... what have you ever done for the Fiero community where it took from your own pocket? I know of several account where Archie has gone WAY out of his way (at no financial gain mind you) to help out someone in need. Where have you been? Oh, wait... you have been taking unsuspecting people's money and making false promises. I think I threw up in my mouth just thinking of you.
How much of these people's hard earned money (yes, they actually WORKED for it), have you spent on your step child's diapers? Tampons for your new wife? Nice NY Cut Steaks for your outdoor BBQ's to impress your neighbors?
My advice:
1. Stop blaming everyone for your failures in life... you obviously suck at this... so it is what you need to work on most.
2. Bring everyone up to date with the projects you have taken on (err, money you have taken for these projects)... truthfully and publicly... give them realistic deadlines and stick by them like it was your last chance... 'cause it is.
3. Stop being the victim. Blaming everyone for your problems (even worse, lambasting them in this forum, make you look like a compete idiot - which you have done an excellent job on your own). You dug this hole very deep... now dig yourself out. (sorry, no Batman quote... you aready used it, and destroyed it's meaning, so I will not stoop down that low) - sorry for those that did not get that bit... it was several pages back where Lloyde horribly misquoted a phrase from a Batman movie.
4. Finish what you got paid for... you advertised it, you got paid, now render the SERVICE/PROCUCT!
5. Answer your fricken emails/phone calls! What I don't understand is that you expect EVERYONE to relate and understand your problems you have had, but you are so unwilling to accept or feel for their frustrations with you. You are acting like a 4 year old autistic child! (trust me, I have one!)
Also, your thought that everyone is out to get your "Secret Squirrel" designs is absolutely sad... this is a sign of paranoia. And to publicly use this as an excuse to not deliver is a significant flag for one of two things.
1. You are truly a paranoid person (not a good person to do business with) 2. You are passing this off to shed light on why you have not/will not produce a product a person has paid for (not a good person to do business with)
Lastly... OMG, to all those that have been taken advantage of... I will not wish you hope... sorry, that has been done before, and requires the A$$ to follow through, but I do wish my best wishes... SINCERELY. I have a few Fieros, and will donate ANY parts I can to help... to include an unmolested harness for an 87 V6 Manual.
My rant is over... I think I will go puke now... thanks Lloyde!
Low class - what makes you think it is okay to refer to someone's wife as a whore? No matter what beef you mighthave with Loyde, his wife has not come into this thread and called anyone names. How about leave family out of it and stick to the facts.
"There is the BBB, the DA, and the Attorney General's offices which should be involved by now."
If you care to look, the BBB has tried to contact him and got no response.... I doubt if he is a member. Nothing else they can do.
If an actual complainant wants to contact the Collin County DA have at it. A 3rd party has no standing til they get a complaint. The same basic idea applies to the Attorney General
"The fact that he hasn't been banned by the members here is condoning his behavior. the whole "I don't have a dog in this fight" thing is cowardice and apathetic at best. "
I don't care if he gets banned from the forum. His rants and responses just highlight his attitude. I've personnally heard him state his opinion of this forum. He also has accused myself and others in this thread of untrue things.
If you think I'm a coward and apathetic then you do not understand what's involved in filing a civil or criminal complaint. Maybe your pockets are deep enough to hire a lawyer, mine are not..
"I'm also willing to help anyone coordinate a plan to get his ass thrown in jail on a federal fraud charge. That's a hell of a lot more than I've seen from most of the members on here, and I also "don't have a dog in this fight".
Have at it and good luck. I'm already working 70 hours a week and don't have time for charity work.
ps edit. Getting this moved to the trash can is exactly what Loyde wanted to happen. Now it's off the main forum and a lot of people will never see it again. I wish it had stayed on the front page.
[This message has been edited by 2farnorth (edited 06-12-2010).]
Blake, while I completely understand your points, although I do disagree that nothing can be done. No one said to go to Loyde's place on your own accord, but turning a blind eye to his business practices isn't exactly excusable either. There are ways to help the victims without putting yourself in harm's way legally or physically. There is the BBB, the DA, and the Attorney General's offices which should be involved by now. When you commit fraud over the internet and across state lines, it is a federal offense. If someone were to help the victims coordinate and approach the correct people, it would more than resolve the situation. Loyde would be put away and his business would be sold off piece by piece to make restitution to the victims. This has happened for people ripped off through Ebay and Craigslist and many other venues. The fact that he hasn't been banned by the members here is condoning his behavior. the whole "I don't have a dog in this fight" thing is cowardice and apathetic at best.
Thank you for calling me an apathetic coward. I seek self respect by what people type about me on the internet... so this has really hurt.
Man... you just have no idea...
Tell ya what... send Jazzman a PM about what legal involvement got him. And you're savvy enough to find the BBB online... take a look at what's there. Effective isn't it?
Say!... if you want to be pro-active and start some kind of 'Victims of Fiero Fraud Defense Fund'... I'll be the first to donate. I honestly hope you don't have to dip into your own fund!
But, In the meantime... I need to go read a few self help books and watch the Care Bears movie so I can make it through another apathetic and cowardly day. ----------- edit-- to add... actually there was a lot of suggestions made by non locals about going over to Loyde's place on our own accord... about why we didn't vigilante up... So yeah... it has been asked. over and over, Again... before you came to PFF. So my reply was based somewhat on that scenario, but did seem to fit your question. There is fascinating reading on the subject in the PFF archives if you want more history on the matter.
[This message has been edited by blakeinspace (edited 06-12-2010).]
My question to you is..What are you doing as a fellow Texan to help this cause. I mean if it is up to Dallas area folks to help then I would think it is every Texans job..So please post on what you did to help.....
I would think with the problems you are having getting your swap complete that you would be more focused on your own problems.....2 months is now 7 months...7 months turns into a year...and so on.....I mean your swap is being done by a shop with many skilled people so what is taking so long?
So, how does this have ANYTHING to do with your old, tired, immature, ridiculous beef with TEXASGT? My car is being worked on and looks to be done this month, which even with the delays, will have it being done faster than the swaps you usually do. On top of that, they're willing to answer their phone and have open discussions with me about the progress, unlike Loyde who parks cars out back and turns them into yard art. So, tell me how I should be concerned about my own swap right now and not have a reaction to someone being completley ripped off like this? But I don't expect Loyde's #1 fanboy to understand something like that. It's obvious that you don't care about anyone else's opinion, especially the people your friend has fleeced for tens (again probably hundreds at this point) of thousands of dollars.
Blake, like I said what I typed wasn't directed towards you. If you want to make it be about you, fine. I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth with you about it. The group in Dallas constitutes a community. A community can accomplish incredible things IF they are so inclined. My question was asked to find out why that community had not done anything yet? There are many avenues that can be taken from local news, to federal charges. Unethical businesses get driven out of business all the time by communities. Saying it's too hard or I don't understand just illuminates the difference between us honestly. I'm not a young kid and I do know how the world works. The population in general usually says something that hasn't been done yet is too hard, right up until and even after someone does it.
quote
Originally posted by 2farnorth:
If you think I'm a coward and apathetic then you do not understand what's involved in filing a civil or criminal complaint. Maybe your pockets are deep enough to hire a lawyer, mine are not..
"I'm also willing to help anyone coordinate a plan to get his ass thrown in jail on a federal fraud charge. That's a hell of a lot more than I've seen from most of the members on here, and I also "don't have a dog in this fight".
Have at it and good luck. I'm already working 70 hours a week and don't have time for charity work.
Just so you know, my father is an attorney and his first gig out of law school was as a prosecutor for the US Attorney's office in Omaha. I also have uncles and a cousin that are attorneys. basically I grew up with the law. I know a little more about it than you presume. It's not costly to get the DA or AG involved, as it is a CRIMINAL investigation on their end, not a civil case. They look into it and if they deem something illegal has been done, there are fines assessed, and possibly jail time. If they can, they will even return property and sometimes money to the victims. They may say that part of it is a civil matter, which then yes a victim will need to pay for an attorney (the costs of which Loyde could be made responsible for). You don't need to pay to report fraud though, and if there are enough reports (by the looks of his track record there indeed are), they will definitely go over and look into it. As far as the working 70 hours a week comment, I own a business and work 12 hour shifts six days a week myself. Stopping someone from continuing to rip people off in my opinion is not charity work, and that's the apathy thing I mentioned earlier.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-12-2010).]
Blake, like I said what I typed wasn't directed towards you. If you want to make it be about you, fine. I'm not going to sit here and go back and forth with you about it.
'is'ok... you and I stated our positions civilly and respectably. I think we understand each others point just fine, with no hard feelings (at least on my end). It doesn't happen all the time on the forum/internets.
Here's a group photo of NTFC at our last meeting. (MstangsBware is Grumpy Bear)
Just so you know, my father is an attorney and his first gig out of law school was as a prosecutor for the US Attorney's office in Omaha. I also have uncles and a cousin that are attorneys. basically I grew up with the law. I know a little more about it than you presume. It's not costly to get the DA or AG involved, as it is a CRIMINAL investigation on their end, not a civil case. They look into it and if they deem something illegal has been done, there are fines assessed, and possibly jail time. If they can, they will even return property and sometimes money to the victims. They may say that part of it is a civil matter, which then yes a victim will need to pay for an attorney (the costs of which Loyde could be made responsible for). You don't need to pay to report fraud though, and if there are enough reports (by the looks of his track record there indeed are), they will definitely go over and look into it. As far as the working 70 hours a week comment, I own a business and work 12 hour shifts six days a week myself. Stopping someone from continuing to rip people off in my opinion is not charity work, and that's the apathy thing I mentioned earlier.
It still requires someone that has DIRECT knowledge of the crime or one that has been harmed or defrauded to file the complaint. Everything we get here on the internet is no better than hear-say. Just because I'm within 20 miles of the perp doesn't give me any authority or responsiblity. Jazzman tried to help and look what it got him. (Or didn't you read the first 9 pages)
Something you may not know... I don't think you will find any business license with the title FastFieros of Dallas on it. He works out of a shop inside a tall wooden fence in his residential back yard. That's why the BBB doesn't do anything. They don't even know where he is. You will notice that his web site does not list a physical address. He's a pretty good distance from Dallas.
If you want to consider me apathetic then enjoy your illusion.
It still requires someone that has DIRECT knowledge of the crime or one that has been harmed or defrauded to file the complaint. Everything we get here on the internet is no better than hear-say. Just because I'm within 20 miles of the perp doesn't give me any authority or responsiblity. Jazzman tried to help and look what it got him. (Or didn't you read the first 9 pages)
Something you may not know... I don't think you will find any business license with the title FastFieros of Dallas on it. He works out of a shop inside a tall wooden fence in his residential back yard. That's why the BBB doesn't do anything. They don't even know where he is. You will notice that his web site does not list a physical address. He's a pretty good distance from Dallas.
If you want to consider me apathetic then enjoy your illusion.
It doesn't matter if he has a license or not, he's doing business and falls under the law's jurisdiction. The BBB keeps track of any complaint they get, whether or not they are a member. Don't think so, ask them. Will this fix the issue? No, I was using them as an example of things that people can do to deter people from going to him. I am not saying people should manufacture complaints against him. I am saying those of us who give a damn should help the people that HAVE had complaints against him. We as a community should also try to stop him from doing it to more people. Whether or not he has access to this forum IS something we can do things about. There are reviews that can be given online as well so that every time his website comes up, it also brings up the reviews as well. As far as him filing a law suit against anyone, slander or libel are civil matters. He would have to have the funds to start and pay for the lawsuit, which he does not have. If this gets big enough he will risk losing his own job and business so it's not likely that he will push the matter and get all that negative PR going on himself.
Apathy is among other things a suppression of emotions or concern. By that definition, yes I call you specifically apathetic. The only thing you're doing now is trying to argue why NOTHING can/should be done. What would you call it? I'm trying to be an advocate for the people he has harmed. You (and many others on here) are trying to defend why YOU cannot. Fine you aren't willing, there is no need to play devil's advocate and try to convince people that NO ONE can. If you're not willing to stick your neck out fine, no judgments. But for god's sake quit trying to spread your "this doesn't have anything to do with me so it's not anything of SERIOUS concern" attitude. Duck out if you don't deem this "charity" as important enough. I'm not delusional, this is your attitude, and it's NOT helping anyone.
'is'ok... you and I stated our positions civilly and respectably. I think we understand each others point just fine, with no hard feelings (at least on my end). It doesn't happen all the time on the forum/internets.
Here's a group photo of NTFC at our last meeting. (MstangsBware is Grumpy Bear)
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[This message has been edited by jeffdean42 (edited 06-12-2010).]
Okay....I got up early today and got on the phone to Rick Perry...I left a message so hopefully I will get a call back. I also have a cousin that has a friend who knows this guy that has a friend that is a lawyer in Mexico. He is going to see if cousins friend can get something done.....If none of this pans out then I have a cousin that has a friend that knows a guy in the Russian mofia that migh help out....
Way to go guys, This thread had relevance, "till it wound up in the trash can, this just makes it easier for more noobs to be victimized.
It's sad that the world we live in today can place a person in the path of a lawsuit for doing the right thing.
Joe
I've been going back and forth with Cliff about getting this removed from the trash can. He won't do it, period. Everyone can thank Dark Horizon for this, Cliff named him specifically. Good job DH, you just did Loyde a HUGE favor. I would give you a (-) for this, but I already gave it to you a while back for the way you act on the boards. You guys really need to learn some boundaries.
I've been going back and forth with Cliff about getting this removed from the trash can. He won't do it, period. Everyone can thank Dark Horizon for this, Cliff named him specifically. Good job DH, you just did Loyde a HUGE favor. I would give you a (-) for this, but I already gave it to you a while back for the way you act on the boards. You guys really need to learn some boundaries.
sounds like its time to start a new thread then? Cliff has allowed the last 10 threads, some went straight to the trashcan due to bad nature, so maybe a "clean" one w/o the bride/whore comments would survive in the GFC?
Good luck with it, after seeing Cliff's response, I have a very different opinion of him now. I honestly don't think he cares what Loyde does. He thinks this only affects .01% of the forum so it's not something he's going to deal with, and the maturity level of certain people will keep surfacing so I think this is bound to repeat itself indefinitely. As I said, I'll be happy to help anyone in any way I can, even if it's just to help people coordinate a way to recover what they've lost.
*Edit* At this point Will and anyone else that has not received their property back should file a report for their property being stolen. Technically at this point he has held their property against their wishes and that is a form of theft. If the local police department doesn't act on a stolen auto/property report, then they themselves can have charges pressed against them with the county/state officials. There is always a way guys.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-13-2010).]
Got a call abck from Rick Perry but I missed it. I just sent him a text about meeting up this week to talk....The lawyer thing went South(get it) so that is no bueno.....Still waiting on the call from Bruno about the assasian.....
Good luck with it, after seeing Cliff's response, I have a very different opinion of him now. I honestly don't think he cares what Loyde does. He thinks this only affects .01% of the forum so it's not something he's going to deal with, and the maturity level of certain people will keep surfacing so I think this is bound to repeat itself indefinitely. As I said, I'll be happy to help anyone in any way I can, even if it's just to help people coordinate a way to recover what they've lost.
*Edit* At this point Will and anyone else that has not received their property back should file a report for their property being stolen. Technically at this point he has held their property against their wishes and that is a form of theft. If the local police department doesn't act on a stolen auto/property report, then they themselves can have charges pressed against them with the county/state officials. There is always a way guys.
What bone do you have in this? All I see is you instigating things here. I'm in the same boat as Mustangsbeware, Loyde has always done right by me, slow on one thing, but everything else he has done has been on par.
Sitting in Houston there is nothing "YOU" personally can do. If you drive to Dallas and step foot on his property without an invite I'm sure you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of the iron bar hotel.
All I can say is that your witch-hunting tactics will get you no where. I'm not sure what satisfaction you're looking for but I am sure it won't be what you want or expect.
What bone do you have in this? All I see is you instigating things here. I'm in the same boat as Mustangsbeware, Loyde has always done right by me, slow on one thing, but everything else he has done has been on par.
Sitting in Houston there is nothing "YOU" personally can do. If you drive to Dallas and step foot on his property without an invite I'm sure you're going to find yourself on the wrong side of the iron bar hotel.
All I can say is that your witch-hunting tactics will get you no where. I'm not sure what satisfaction you're looking for but I am sure it won't be what you want or expect.
Let me clear some things up for you. You didn't have a problem with Loyde, good for you. That doesn't seem to be the norm at the moment. If I were you, I would just be grateful instead of arguing with the members that HAVE had an issue with him, or members who would help them out. The amount of money Loyde has STOLEN from Will, and others from what I have read, is enough money to put a down payment on a house! It's not $100 for some Fiero parts, it's THOUSANDS. This doesn't even include the people that paid for harnesses and never got them.
I chose to involve myself to see if I could help, and no I'm not as limited as you apparently are. I don't need to go to Loyde's to help out. I know enough about the law and business to help people in a more effective manner.This isn't a witch-hunt, as I'm not policing the boards looklng for people to give a hard time to. This particular situation disgusts me though, as does your attitude towards it. Dennis started out defending Loyde as well, and look how Loyde reacted. This guy needs to be exposed to everyone that would send money his way, and he needs to make restitution for the money and property he has defrauded members (and non-members) out of. When you do something that is both illegal and unethical, and there is record of it in a public forum, there will be public outrage. Why don't you and Mstangs there explain why this notion is so foreign to you? Because he's your friend? If you don't want to get involved, fine. Don't sit there and tell me I shouldn't stick up for the people he victimized though, it just makes you look like an ass.
Mstangs, thanks for constantly proving me right about what kind of person you are. Now you're actually mocking the situation where people were taken advantage of. I hope people are paying attention, as this might be a clue that you're capable of taking advantage of others yourself.
Originally posted by mptighe: I chose to involve myself to see if I could help,
Haven't seen where you have helped anyone yet. I’m still waiting to actually see if you will do anything other than just type your mind.
quote
and no I'm not as limited as you apparently are. I don't need to go to Loyde's to help out. I know enough about the law and business to help people in a more effective manner.
There are no bounds to my limitations. I have always worked out my “OWN” problems without the help of a "mother hen" on an internet forum who thinks they know what's going on. I seek advice when needed and I am sure most intelligent people do the same.
quote
This particular situation disgusts me though, as does your attitude towards it.
My attitude? I only asked why you are so bent on getting involved when it has nothing to do with you. Do I condone his actions? No, never stated that I did. Am I concerned about other peoples business with him? Not really, since it doesn't directly involve me. I'm apathetic to them but I'm not going to poke and prod to no avail. Does he run a perfect business model? Well, no he doesn't. But that does not discount that I have been pleased with all of his past work, sales, and technical help he has provided to me in the past. I am sure others are in the same boat. What part of "THIS" don't you understand?
quote
Dennis started out defending Loyde as well, and look how Loyde reacted.
Learn the whole story on this issue. Loyde confided in Dennis with personal issues that were never supposed to be discussed but Dennis couldn't keep his mouth shut. Look at the history, it’s here on the forum, I’m sure you can find it.
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This guy needs to be exposed to everyone that would send money his way, and he needs to make restitution for the money and property he has defrauded members (and non-members) out of. When you do something that is both illegal and unethical, and there is record of it in a public forum, there will be public outrage. Why don't you and Mstangs there explain why this notion is so foreign to you? Because he's your friend? If you don't want to get involved, fine. Don't sit there and tell me I shouldn't stick up for the people he victimized though, it just makes you look like an ass.
I've never said I was blind to his business transactions. Everyone that reads this forum is well aware of his dealings. I made a simple comment that I have had “GOOD” experiences with him. Everyone is free to make their own opinions and decisions based on input from other members that have utilized his services both good and bad. By stating that I have had good experiences with his services neither makes me look stupid or says that I am not apathetic towards others misfortunes. It’s a judgment that you, yourself made.
Don't for one moment think or feel you know me and pass judgment on what my thoughts are in regards to anything. I kept my previous comments cordial so why you find a need to say I look like an ass is beyond me. Last time I looked I don’t have a black mane, tail or pointed ears and I surely don’t run around braying at things just because I want to lead the band-wagon. Just because your maturity level won't allow you to comment like a rational, mature adult doesn't mean you need to resort to name-calling and swearing. But if that's what your demeanor will allow than I'm sorry for you and your generation.
And lastly, I will not sit here and go back-and-forth with you in regards to this. I've stated my opinion and my past experiences. I have no reason to justify any other input you may disagree with.
And lastly, I will not sit here and go back-and-forth with you in regards to this. I've stated my opinion and my past experiences. I have no reason to justify any other input you may disagree with.
Good we both agree on something. You stated your opinion, and you questioned mine. Done? I chose to try to help in a situation, one that you deem as not relevant to you. How and why I involve myself is also not something that involves you. If the people involved don't accept my offer of assistance, that's one thing. You chose to question my need/want/right to help in the way I deem fit. Don't be surprised when that brings judgment back on you. As far as the name calling and swearing part, re-read what I wrote. I didn't call you anything, I commented on your appearance from these particular actions. If you think this is a generational thing, then that's a judgment on your part. Don't be a hypocrite and do the same actions you accuse others of. If you do, expect to lose all credibility and to be called out on it. Now, anything else or are you really going to stop going back and forth on something you yourself said doesn't involve you by your own choice?
Originally posted by mptighe: Good we both agree on something.
I doubt it but you have your own opinion to maintain.
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You stated your opinion, and you questioned mine. Done?
Nope, didn't question your opinion just your motive and your end gain. It appears to be personal for you, almost vendetta-like.<<judgmental, just wanted to point that out for those watching...ewww, evil...>>
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I chose to try to help in a situation, one that you deem as not relevant to you. How and why I involve myself is also not something that involves you. If the people involved don't accept my offer of assistance, that's one thing. You chose to question my need/want/right to help in the way I deem fit. Don't be surprised when that brings judgment back on you
Someone questioning anothers objective doesn't place judgment. I didn't judge you in your assertation that your so-called offer for help was right or wrong, I just asked what will be your satisfaction from it. Simple question yet to be answered.
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As far as the name calling and swearing part, re-read what I wrote. I didn't call you anything, I commented on your appearance from these particular actions.
Six of one, half dozen of another, same thing. Arguing over semantics.
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If you think this is a generational thing, then that's a judgment on your part.
You're correct, I didn't mean to generalize. I should have said if this is how you respond then it's a sad day.
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Don't be a hypocrite and do the same actions you accuse others of. If you do, expect to lose all credibility and to be called out on it.
What credibility are you speaking of? The credibility of my opinion? Oooooh, I've been called out...the agony...I'm going to internet hell now...oh my. I better stock up on ice water.
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Now, anything else or are you really going to stop going back and forth on something you yourself said doesn't involve you by your own choice?
I never said, "this doesn't involve me by my own choice." I wish you would stop misquoting me and paraphrasing what you think I said.
I just had to throw one more in for good measure. Maybe, I'll strike that quote from my last posting just to annoy you. Oh man, I can't even keep a promise! I'm so ashamed of myself. I'm sure you'll drop that one on me next.
So far postings of REAL customers with REAL transactions in the last 3 pages > 2 , and they posted POSITIVE .. kieth is being taken care of because he is taking care of his side of the transaction... usually always boils down to money. I just dont air out my side on PFF.. I wait until where it really counts, if needed... and it has not needed to come to that. BECAUSE I deliver a product that actually 100% and the customer is happy happy... oh so happy...
All other are trolls and instigators with only hear say and slander.
So far postings of REAL customers with REAL transactions in the last 3 pages > 2 , and they posted POSITIVE .. kieth is being taken care of because he is taking care of his side of the transaction... usually always boils down to money. I just dont air out my side on PFF.. I wait until where it really counts, if needed... and it has not needed to come to that. BECAUSE I deliver a product that actually 100% and the customer is happy happy... oh so happy...
All other are trolls and instigators with only hear say and slander.
Thank you
Yeah and I'm sure Will didn't pay you either, or any of the guys that you failed to deliver harnesses or pcm's to. No one is buying your crap Loyde, even your buddies have said they don't agree with how you've handled your business. To me that means they know you're full of it too, but they just don't worry about it because you didn't screw them over. Prove that it's wrong and I'll be the first to retract what I've said. Show us the proof that everyone got what they paid for. Let's see the 5 year build thread on Will's car, or Keith's for that matter. Let's see the tracking numbers for the list of people who claim you didn't get the harnesses to.
Yeah and I'm sure Will didn't pay you either, or any of the guys that you failed to deliver harnesses or pcm's to. No one is buying your crap Loyde, even your buddies have said they don't agree with how you've handled your business. To me that means they know you're full of it too, but they just don't worry about it because you didn't screw them over. Prove that it's wrong and I'll be the first to retract what I've said. Show us the proof that everyone got what they paid for. Let's see the 5 year build thread on Will's car, or Keith's for that matter. Let's see the tracking numbers for the list of people who claim you didn't get the harnesses to.
Good to know that you know what I really think...tell me more......Why would anyone bother to show you anything as you are a no body in this whole transaction. You are someon who is trolling this Thread and the only one still posting against 4 others.
You should really be focusing on he shop that is draggin out your swap and feeding you lies as to why it is taking so long. Better yet better be doing your homework on the swap so you can figure out why it is not running right when you get it back.
Good to know that you know what I really think...tell me more......Why would anyone bother to show you anything as you are a no body in this whole transaction. You are someon who is trolling this Thread and the only one still posting against 4 others.
You should really be focusing on he shop that is draggin out your swap and feeding you lies as to why it is taking so long. Better yet better be doing your homework on the swap so you can figure out why it is not running right when you get it back.
Posting this on my way to Cali.....
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Originally posted by MstangsBware:
I am not forsure why you are bringing my name into this Thread or your post. But since you did...I HAVE STATED BEFORE THAT I DO NOT AGREE WITH WHAT HAS HAPPENED BETWEEN FF AND OTHERS BUT....I have also stated and I will again that every deal/transaction that I have done with Loyde has been positive in every way. He has helped me over the years with every thing I have asked him to and has answered every question that I have ever asked.
So...how is your swap going down in Houston with TexasGT? Haven't seen any updates on it in a while.......
Hypocrite
*EDIT* Again, how long does it take you to do a swap? Why don't you drop by Will and Scott's shop and let them know what you think? Insulting them doesn't really phase me, especially since I never even considered having either you or Loyde do my swap for me. So if they're disreputable, what does that say about you two if I would choose them over you any day? Problems or not, they've acted more professionally than I've ever witnessed either of you act.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 06-15-2010).]
*EDIT* Again, how long does it take you to do a swap? Why don't you drop by Will and Scott's shop and let them know what you think? Insulting them doesn't really phase me, especially since I never even considered having either you or Loyde do my swap for me. So if they're disreputable, what does that say about you two if I would choose them over you any day? Problems or not, they've acted more professionally than I've ever witnessed either of you act.
The shortest time I have done a swap in is about 3 months. This was done while I wasnt working but during the hunting season. The next one took right at a year and the one I am delivering now took about a year and 2 months or so. Both these swaps where done after I went back to work pulling 60 hour weeks. So far though everyone that has a swap I have done is very happy with them and spent much less money with me...
Why hasnt the guy doing your swap posted any updates on it? O..thats right he was banned fo being unproffesional and an azz.
Why hasnt the guy doing your swap posted any updates on it? O..thats right he was banned fo being unproffesional and an azz.
Again, when did this become about Will? He answers his phone every time I call, the car IS being worked on, and they never lied to me about anything that I know of. To be honest, if being an ass is a reason for being banned, you would have been gone a long time ago. You instigated a fight with him, not the other way around. If you need me to remind you, I'll go hunt up the threads and show you. Nice deflecting from your buddy Loyde though, as if he hasn't ripped people off blind. You know that weak minded tactic will only work on weak minded people right? Stick to wrencing on cars in your spare time, trying to get over on people in an argument isn't something you're very good at. Like I said before all this is doing is revealing your character to people.
Again, when did this become about Will? He answers his phone every time I call, the car IS being worked on, and they never lied to me about anything that I know of. To be honest, if being an ass is a reason for being banned, you would have been gone a long time ago. You instigated a fight with him, not the other way around. If you need me to remind you, I'll go hunt up the threads and show you. Nice deflecting from your buddy Loyde though, as if he hasn't ripped people off blind. You know that weak minded tactic will only work on weak minded people right? Stick to wrencing on cars in your spare time, trying to get over on people in an argument isn't something you're very good at. Like I said before all this is doing is revealing your character to people.
Dude... you got no dog in this fight yet you won't shut the hell up about it. Kind of reminds me of an asshat from rft who has a chubby for archie... and you've been here less than a year at that... why not go cool off and try to mind your own business like a good little boy and let those who have something to do with this mess work it out.....
[This message has been edited by Nazareth (edited 06-15-2010).]
I'm sorry are you the pot or the kettle? Look at your choice of wording then look at mine. Did I come into this trying to make a big fight with Loyde, no I came into it saying he shouldn't still be able to have access to people on the board. Then his fanboys started in with their usual arguments and deflections. I also offered help for people to get some kind of return on what they've lost. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Who are you trying to help out, other than just throwing yourself into the conflict? Public forum, so you're welcome to make that choice, just as I have. You can try to argue with me all you want, it's not going to change my decision on this. When I decide I'm done, then I'll be done. I notice you didn't say anything to Mstangs, who instigates in any thread Archie is in, as well as others he doesn't get along with. That point right there along with your choice of words means to me that your viewpoint is not of any value to me. As far as the little boy comment, you should try using adult words/phrases before you go slinging condescending crap like that at people.
<---- did you buy Cliff a beer?
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I've been called out...the agony...I'm going to internet hell now...oh my. I better stock up on ice water.
Oh man, I can't even keep a promise! I'm so ashamed of myself. 
I'm sure you'll drop that one on me next. 
