I have an 85 GT with KYB struts, I have cut the front springs resulting in it being about one inch lower. I want to do coil overs in the rear. Will 12 inch springs with a 2 1/2" ID work on KYB GR-2 struts? And will a 7 inch sleeve with a 2.04" ID work? Third and final question is this...I want the cornering performance and ride much stiffer and lower than stock, but i do not want it so stiff that it is totally uncivilized, so from what I have seen on here most of you guys are between 250lb and 300lb spring rate, what's the most ideal? Some opinions and input on these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
-Justin
[This message has been edited by Justin_J (edited 03-22-2010).]
So, has anyone found a threaded sleeve that will fit over the koni strut without additional honing out the sleeve? If not, how much exactly are you guys honing out the sleeve?
How about some actual car photos of how the various coilover combos are adjusted on the cars ? I will be ordering the needed parts in the next day or two and I am uncertain if I will be able to adjust a 10 or 12 inch 300# spring (7 inch sleeves either way) low enough. Basically the car sits with an index finger of fender gap and I want to keep it that way. So my question is, where would the adjustment collar need to be set when using a 10 or 12 inch spring to achieve a similar ride height (i.e. would the collar have to be bottomed out to the strut bolts if using a 12 inch spring)? Thanks in advance for any help guys and what a great thread for 6 years and counting.
I just spent the last 5 hours installing my coilovers. The front Eibachs went on earlier without much of a problem. I had a unique situation that is important to know. I have an 86 model and installed my new wheels and tires a couple of days ago, 18x8 and 18x9s, 38 mm offset. I have the Coleman racing sleeve kit with the upper cone seats as seen in the example on page 2, and QA1 12" 275 lb rate. I installed the cone seat beneath the stock strut mount. I adjusted the spring seats up to 3.25 inches from the bottom and sat it down. The rear lift must have been about 4 inches.
I lowered the perch a few inches and still had too much lift, that's when I discovered the spring and seats were making contact with the tire and wheel. In the picture below it's hard to see it clearly but if you look at the bottom of the sleeve you'll see that it is not resting properly at the bottom of the strut.
I removed the cone and that has nearly solved the problem by allowing the spring seat to rest a lot higher up, but when adjusting for the lower height to match the front ride height, the perch is now close to the tire again so a 1/8" thick spacer may be needed for the wheel to get the additional inch or so necessary to level it off, or purchasing 10" springs instead.
Quick question, so far I've gathered all the components to do this conversion. I just got the springs today, the last piece of the puzzle. I ordered monroe sensa trac shocks and struts from rockauto, but heres what I don't get. Take a look at the picture:
You'll notice that at the end of the strut tube, there is a sort of "cap", the diameter is larger than that of the tube itself. Is this supposed to be cut off? I backtracked through the thread and did a search and didn't find anything mentioning it.
Thank you sir! Now I'm curious if anyone has removed the coating on the spring to paint them. Mine are bright yellow AFCO springs that I got used off a dirt model race car, they show some wear. I know the coating on them is thick though.
Thank you sir! Now I'm curious if anyone has removed the coating on the spring to paint them. Mine are bright yellow AFCO springs that I got used off a dirt model race car, they show some wear. I know the coating on them is thick though.
I actually posted a thread on that very subject and got no help. The only recommendation was a wire wheel or grinder. Just be careful not to heat the spring too much.
I actually posted a thread on that very subject and got no help. The only recommendation was a wire wheel or grinder. Just be careful not to heat the spring too much.
Funny you mention that, I could have sworn I stumbled upon that thread haha. Have you done it? The wear is pretty light on these springs so I don't know if its worth it.
Funny you mention that, I could have sworn I stumbled upon that thread haha. Have you done it? The wear is pretty light on these springs so I don't know if its worth it.
Honestly, I tried to remove some of the finish but it seems that stuff is bulletproof. I just left it alone
Well of course it would be strange if this turned out to be easy. For some reason I have struts which don't have your typical external tabs for the caps. Instead there were 4 and they were welded more towards the center of the shock. I used my rotary tool and cut of wheels for metal, and it took 7 wheels before I cut down the diameter of the cap enough for the sleeve to clear. Yaaay for having to spend $30 for cut off wheels for this project . For the other strut, I'm just going to take a grinder to the cap and pray that I don't go too far and nick the tube hard. I nicked it a few times with the dremel but they are just surface scratches luckily, barely fingernail length.
[This message has been edited by nitroheadz28 (edited 06-06-2011).]
I was cutting and grinding all day. Decided to take a hand grinder and go at it with a cut off wheel to do the perches. I cut and ground off the cap on the second strut. I still have a few hours of work ahead of me too, the damn welds in the middle where the perches were- you have to pretty delicate and precise not to grind into the tube. The strut was pretty warm to the touch while grinding, so I doubt I messed up the temper of the steel.
1. What ID sleeves fit best on KYB struts without thinning the walls? I've seen 2.07, 2.1 and 2.17" ID sleeves but I don't want to guess on something that's holding up most of the car's weight.
2. What is currently the cheapest source for them without wasting $ on the conical hats and other stuff that we don't need?
I would say ebay. It takes some shopping, but you can find them cheap. I got my A1 racing sleeves/rings/tophats (which I didn't use of course) for $30 shipped- very lightly used.
after doing this conversion I would like to say, for stock fiero rims I recommend 10" springs if you want it to look dropped
you can do it with 12" springs if you dont mind tightening the adjuster a bit, putting more preload on the springs
I have 12" springs right now with the adjuster tightened enough to take up the slack on the spring, plus just a couple turns. theres still a good bit of wheel gap though
its still lower than stock, but not as much as I was hoping for
[This message has been edited by scott0999 (edited 06-18-2011).]
I checked out the link. I have sleeves showing up, but it does not mention the ID of the sleeve for verification, nor does it mention if the sleeve comes with the adjuster? Any clarification you can offer on what comes with this sleeve. I have KYBs in the rear.
quote
Originally posted by Joseph Upson:
I just spent the last 5 hours installing my coilovers. The front Eibachs went on earlier without much of a problem. I had a unique situation that is important to know. I have an 86 model and installed my new wheels and tires a couple of days ago, 18x8 and 18x9s, 38 mm offset. I have the Coleman racing sleeve kit with the upper cone seats as seen in the example on page 2, and QA1 12" 275 lb rate. I installed the cone seat beneath the stock strut mount. I adjusted the spring seats up to 3.25 inches from the bottom and sat it down. The rear lift must have been about 4 inches.
I lowered the perch a few inches and still had too much lift, that's when I discovered the spring and seats were making contact with the tire and wheel. In the picture below it's hard to see it clearly but if you look at the bottom of the sleeve you'll see that it is not resting properly at the bottom of the strut.
I removed the cone and that has nearly solved the problem by allowing the spring seat to rest a lot higher up, but when adjusting for the lower height to match the front ride height, the perch is now close to the tire again so a 1/8" thick spacer may be needed for the wheel to get the additional inch or so necessary to level it off, or purchasing 10" springs instead.
1984 indy manual stock with new Kybs in the rear.
After reading through this thread I was nearly sold on the 7in adjusters, QA1 12 inch springs @ 300lbs. I was going to fully remove the stock perch and have the sleeve sit all the way down. Now I'm worried... I wanted to do the coil over conversion to allow for wider rims in the rear. I have a free pair of 265/35 r18 tires off my spouses mustang I wanted to use on the rear. I'm still shopping for rims to make it all work. That tire size means rims at 18x8.5 minimum, but preferred 18x9 inch. Now I'm worried I might experience this issue, as rims don't offer as much offset selection with our lug pattern. I don't need my lower spring seat/adjuster hitting my tires. The plan is to lower the car so the fender sits about an inch above the tire. Would it be better to use a 10 inch spring to get the lower ride height I want, but avoid the seat/tire contact? Or would it be better to have the sleeve rest on the stock perch welds to hold it up higher. Then what spring length would i need to get only 1 inch fender gap?
Thanks to you all. Great info in this thread. I figure its better to ask before I collect parts and have to re-buy a shorter spring.
Made my coil-over's today. 7in adjusters, QA1 12" 300lb springs, and Monroe struts. The top plate is just there to hold it all together for now, built them for an 88 cradle swap.
after doing this conversion I would like to say, for stock fiero rims I recommend 10" springs if you want it to look dropped
you can do it with 12" springs if you dont mind tightening the adjuster a bit, putting more preload on the springs
I have 12" springs right now with the adjuster tightened enough to take up the slack on the spring, plus just a couple turns. theres still a good bit of wheel gap though
its still lower than stock, but not as much as I was hoping for
1-2 turns preload is what I've always heard is correct anyway (well, for even height. 4-corner wheel weighing is correct for track/handling)
Do you have any pictures of the drop with them adjusted like this? I'm really curious because I thought 12" springs were what everyone preferred. Oh, and what spring rate are you using with that kind of drop?
[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 06-20-2011).]
1-2 turns preload is what I've always heard is correct anyway (well, for even height. 4-corner wheel weighing is correct for track/handling)
Do you have any pictures of the drop with them adjusted like this? I'm really curious because I thought 12" springs were what everyone preferred. Oh, and what spring rate are you using with that kind of drop?
QA1 12" springs, 300# spring rate
please excuse the paint, thats the last thing I'm doing on the car
Still trying to gather info for my coil over conversion.... and rim swap... I have been using Joe Torma's wheel offset diagram as my bible for possible fitments on my 84. On his diagram.... I understand where the spring perch is marked and have based my potential offset choices on this... However the coil-over conversion will add additional clearance in the rear. Can anyone give any figures as to the amount of inside clearance that is gained after the conversion?
I'm having a heck of a time finding wheels that will offer a decent staggered offset. I'm still concerned as to my previous post... seeing someone else have their rear 18x9s hit the coil-over's perch... See I have a free pair of 18inch tires 265/35. Best choice for the tire is a 9inch wheel. But I'm worried about how they will fit even with the coil-over conversion.
Its not like I can just do the conversion and see what happens... My sleeve length choice and spring length choice might also affect what will fit. Either way could spell a costly mistake. The spouse is barely allowing me to make this investment at its current "no mistakes" price. Though I still think the wheels are going to break the budget. I want white, but its hard to get them in decent widths, esp anything staggered. So now it might be another finish and powder coat them... ugh! So you can see why I want to make the right choice from the get go.
Stock WS6 springs on my '86 GT (Code NYM, stiffest of 4 possible) have O.D. of 7-7/8 for a radius of 3.9375. I'd imagine they're all the same...? Standard 2-5/8 coil springs have O.D. of 3-5/8, radius of 1.8125. 2-1/2" I.D. springs will have O.D. of about 3-1/2, radius of 1.750. Most coil over nuts/adjusters are about 3-1/2" O.D. as well.
2-1/2" springs give you 3.9375 - 1.8125 = 2 1/8" more room on each side from the shock centerline. 2-5/8" springs will give you about 2".
This is assuming there are no geometry changes with your install. If clearance is an issue, you should look upper spring locators like WCF uses with their kit to make sure nothing shifts.
Scott0999, I'm not sure why you had trouble lowering their rear with 12" springs unless they're resting on the stock perches...? Stock springs were 12" and removing the perches gives you about 4-3/8" drop. Coilover kits raise you up from there.
Also, most eBay coilover kits (even for Integras) do NOT fit over KYBs even if you sand the paint off and heat them to 400-425 (Al loses temper at 425-450 after 10 to 20 min, and they WILL stay hot for that long if you don't quench them). Maybe if they were honed or on a different brand of struts?
I got a deal on some sleeves & rings from Speedway. They were in the garage sale section without the cone, clip and other stuff so that saves a few bucks. They clear KYB's with at about 1/16" gap. Plenty of room.
Finally, just FYI: KYB previously marketed their shocks/struts as GR-2 in the U.S. and Excel elsewhere. They have discontinued the GR-2 name and silver color. Everything is black Excel now, but KYB says they are the exact same product.
[This message has been edited by FieroGT42 (edited 07-06-2011).]
Originally posted by FieroGT42: Scott0999, I'm not sure why you had trouble lowering their rear with 12" springs unless they're resting on the stock perches...? Stock springs were 12" and removing the perches gives you about 4-3/8" drop. Coilover kits raise you up from there.
I didnt say I was having trouble, I was saying (I think) it would be better to use 10" springs for stock wheels
for the wheel gap I have with 12" springs, I would have to tighten the adjuster alot, putting ALOT of preload on the springs to close the gap.
it needs a good 2" drop to match the front with 1 coil cut, so 10" spring would do that perfectly
After reading through this thread I was nearly sold on the 7in adjusters, QA1 12 inch springs @ 300lbs. I was going to fully remove the stock perch and have the sleeve sit all the way down. Now I'm worried... I wanted to do the coil over conversion to allow for wider rims in the rear. I have a free pair of 265/35 r18 tires off my spouses mustang I wanted to use on the rear. I'm still shopping for rims to make it all work. That tire size means rims at 18x8.5 minimum, but preferred 18x9 inch. Now I'm worried I might experience this issue, as rims don't offer as much offset selection with our lug pattern. I don't need my lower spring seat/adjuster hitting my tires. The plan is to lower the car so the fender sits about an inch above the tire. Would it be better to use a 10 inch spring to get the lower ride height I want, but avoid the seat/tire contact? Or would it be better to have the sleeve rest on the stock perch welds to hold it up higher. Then what spring length would i need to get only 1 inch fender gap?
Thanks to you all. Great info in this thread. I figure its better to ask before I collect parts and have to re-buy a shorter spring.
I plan to do this install as soon as I can get this question answered... I have since learned the 10 inch spring with the 7 inch sleeve should get me above the wheel and tire, but If I really want to push the tire width and offset... and maximize my space, would it be better to go with a perch mounted sleeve with the perch trimmed super tight? This would give me a few more MM of clearance with the sleeve not b/w the strut and tire? Yes/NO??? Or will 18s sit tall enough that their height will put them at or above the stock perch location and make it irrelivant?
quote
Originally posted by Riddick85:
By using the 12" spring I can see you get more adjustable range but if you adjusted it to near the bottom wouldn't that lower the car like 3-4"? It seems a little much. I have read through this whole thing but I still have a question that wasn't exactly covered.
It seems where the adjuster is at is about where the spring perch is normally at in most of the finished pics. Couldn't you keep the perch, get a shorter adjuster sleeve, and get a 8" or 10" spring? I know it would be easier to get coil bind that way but as long as you aren't driving crazy it should be fine I think.
I know I could be way wrong but that is why I am asking and not just doing. I just want an easy, safe way to lower the car about an inch to get rid of the big gap in the wheel wells.
Same question I have! I ahve seen some of the completed kits offered have the sleeve at the stock perch location, but I have heard people say the 8 inch spring has popped out. So that means 10 is safer. Well will that still give one the adjustablity to get decently low. Again I'm hoping to go as low as I can.
Thank you! I have been searching and searching and have not yet found a thread weighting these pros and cons clearly enough for me to be 100% sure of which route to go... THX!
I didnt say I was having trouble, I was saying (I think) it would be better to use 10" springs for stock wheels
for the wheel gap I have with 12" springs, I would have to tighten the adjuster alot, putting ALOT of preload on the springs to close the gap.
it needs a good 2" drop to match the front with 1 coil cut, so 10" spring would do that perfectly
This doesn't make sense. To close the wheel/body gap you don't tighten the adjuster, you lower it. If you tighten the adjuster you are raising the car more, no matter how long your springs are.
just to report back in on the completion of my build. I was able to fit 265/35 18s on 18x8.5 with a 45 offset on the rear. Seems like I have about a finger b/w the tire and spring perch. Car is sitting now with 3 fingers height b/w the tire and fender lip (perch sits 31 threads up from the bottom) The tire sticks out of the fender lip ever so slightly, but WAY less then a 38 offset on a 9 inch wheel. Pics will be posted in my thread later, which I linked in the post above this
[This message has been edited by redraif (edited 10-05-2011).]
) with the Fiero...
. For the other strut, I'm just going to take a grinder to the cap and pray that I don't go too far and nick the tube hard. I nicked it a few times with the dremel but they are just surface scratches luckily, barely fingernail length.
