This is a great thread and I just wanted to thank you for the time you put into this. It must have taken quite some time to do. I too used a 4x4 and a jack with 2 floor stands to drop mine out. I just finished it yesterday and now I can move onto the Deville and get engine out for the swap. The only sticky point I had was the dang A/C compressor. Mine is charged and I wanted to keep it so getting those bolts out of the top bracket were a bear. The rear nut you can get from under the drivers side as you described but I had a hard time with the front bolt. I had to use a universal joint (3/8) on my 15mm and a 6" extension to give me just enough room to break it loose.
I had forgot about this writeup! I have converted this thread to a PDF. If you want it or can find someone to host it I will be happy to send it to you. With your permission I will email it to those who are interested or have someone host it.
Not to worry. I still have the word write-up and I just emailed it to those who asked. If anyone still wants a clean copy emailed to them just shoot me an email.
The motor just went in my 86. How convienient that this thread shows up the very day it dies. Time for my first Fiero engine R & R. Thanks for the thread as I will be using it in the next few days.
Leaving the calipers attached saves having to bleed the brakes. Just hang them from the strut tower with bungee cords. Big time saver if your not doing new pads and rotors and dont need to compress the calipers much. Deffinatly worth flushing the brake lines and bleeding if you havent done it yet.
Agreed, Step 32 could have been accomplished by simply leaving the calipers attached and hanging them away on the chassis by using cut up pieces of coat hanger - this prevents an hour minimum down the road on bleeding the brakes. No one wants to bleed the brakes because they worked on thier motor
Also, the coolant could have been drained from the coolant tubes by removing the 1/4" NPT plugs on the coolant tubes. 1 is located on each side roughly about a foot ahead of where the rubber coolant tubes attach to the motor. Now bare in mind that if this is an East Coast car, chances of getting the plugs out or slim to none do to corrosion.
------------------ Recanizin' Flat-Buns Since 2001
Eric Nelson Internet Sales Manager Power Ford Valencia nelsone@autonation.com
If the techniques outlined is thisthread work that's great. Its just that they scare me. We use a hydraulic lift and a motorcycle jack. Go through the steps to remove everything that holds the powertrian in place. Lift car up on hyd lift jack up motorcycle lift. Lower car down so cradle will sit on two 2 x 10 x 4 planks on the motorcycle lift, apply slight upward support remove cradle bolts and lower motorcycle lift while raising car up on hoist. Pull powertrain out from underneath on motorcycle lift.
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
If the techniques outlined is thisthread work that's great. Its just that they scare me. We use a hydraulic lift and a motorcycle jack. Go through the steps to remove everything that holds the powertrian in place. Lift car up on hyd lift jack up motorcycle lift. Lower car down so cradle will sit on two 2 x 10 x 4 planks on the motorcycle lift, apply slight upward support remove cradle bolts and lower motorcycle lift while raising car up on hoist. Pull powertrain out from underneath on motorcycle lift.
Yet another good suggestion.
There are several different ways to separate car and cradle. Many have been posted here. Often the availability of types of jacks or the proximity of two sturdy trees or the availability of an overhead I-beam can make the difference in which method to use.
In this case, my entire goal was to show how the average schmo could, in his own driveway, take it out.
Each person will have to decide for themselves which method works best for them and take all necessary safety measures before attempting.
In any case, if you can, I STRONGLY endorse the use of a car lift for the procedure. It solves a multitude of problems and used ones can be had for $500 on Craig's List.
Excellent write up. Not exactly the way we do it but close. We wouldn't tackle this job without a lift. On the rear cradle bolts we find that a shot of PB blaster and a strong 1/2" impact wrench hardly ever breaks ( spins) the hat nuts inside the frame loose where its more likely to happen with a breaker bar.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Excellent write up. Not exactly the way we do it but close. We wouldn't tackle this job without a lift. On the rear cradle bolts we find that a shot of PB blaster and a strong 1/2" impact wrench hardly ever breaks ( spins) the hat nuts inside the frame loose where its more likely to happen with a breaker bar.
That is a good tip for people in rust country. Here is Cali that isn't much of a problem so everyone needs to look at the bolts and make a judgement call. In any case, a shot of Liquid Wrench or PB or WD-40 is a good idea no matter where you live.
Awesome writeup, toddster, + for you! I'm about to swap my '88 sixer into my '85 Coupe... Gonna call it "The Coupe-ula"... I'll definitely be using this, thanks again! -Paul
Ok so my first attempt at removing a V6 out of a GT was about a month ago. I got as far as trying to remove the rear cradle bolts when the head of the bolts decided to round off. Does anyone have a good detailed description of how to get the bolts out. I'm sure they are pretty rusted in place.
Ok so my first attempt at removing a V6 out of a GT was about a month ago. I got as far as trying to remove the rear cradle bolts when the head of the bolts decided to round off. Does anyone have a good detailed description of how to get the bolts out. I'm sure they are pretty rusted in place.
If you round off the bolt heads then using a 12 pointed socket that is one size to small might work. Hammer it on and go for it. I use this method to get security locking lug nuts off cars in the wrecking yard.
If that fails a cut off wheel or hack saw is the best solution. The bolts are a fairly common size and easy to replace. If you can't get the blade in between the bushing and the frame rail then you may need to cut out the entire lower section of the frame rail and weld it back in later.
Sorry to have been away so long people. I have been dealing with other issues in my life. I still have the write-up in Word and PDF format so if anyone wants a copy just sing out with an email and I promise to send a copy.
Merry Christmas to all and may 2010 be a hell of a lot better than 2009
thanks toddster, great writeup. im using this right now to review the procedures before my second engine removal. my clutch went out and i get to put in a new one. lots of time here during the winter for such projects. jon
------------------ I'm the original owner of a white ' 84 2M4 purchased Dec 10, 1983 from Pontiac. Always garaged, no rust, 4-wheel drifts are fun!
I am on my second go-round in pullling the engine. Toddster's write-up is excellent, but having done it before I didn't need the detailed instructions. All I wanted was a checklist to make sure I didn't miss a step.
I made these:
I have them as PDF files, so if you'd like one let me know (use PM) and I can email it to you. If you see something I need to fix let me know.
edit: I fixed a couple of mistakes and added a step - things that I discovered while using the list. edit: 2/1/10 I added one more step and named it revc. edit: 6/15/10 rev d.
[This message has been edited by fyrebird68 (edited 06-15-2010).]
Since this was the only guide here, I used it for my 4 Duke drop today. Mostly the same to be honest and with a little common sense, It went well. I got it done in around 4 hours with some screwing around. I found the E-brake cable part particularly helpful. Good thread!
I am on my second go-round in pullling the engine. Toddster's write-up is excellent, but having done it before I didn't need the detailed instructions. All I wanted was a checklist to make sure I didn't miss a step.
I made these:
I have them as PDF files, so if you'd like one let me know and I can email it to you. If you see something I need to fix let me know.
edit: I fixed a couple of mistakes and added a step - things that I discovered while using the list. edit: 2/1/10 I added one more step and named it revc.
well done! This is handy for those of us with some experience
When removing the A/C compressor, I thought it was impossible (or near impossible) to get to those two compressor-to-bracket bolts? I thought the whole compressor/bracket assembly was removed at the same time?
I say "near impossible" because I had to loosen one of them to pivot my compressor, to loosen the belt - but it was a huge PITA to get to.
When removing the A/C compressor, I thought it was impossible (or near impossible) to get to those two compressor-to-bracket bolts? I thought the whole compressor/bracket assembly was removed at the same time?
I say "near impossible" because I had to loosen one of them to pivot my compressor, to loosen the belt - but it was a huge PITA to get to.
My AC was not charged, so I didn't remove the AC compressor. I just unhooked the two hoses under the air filter. If you want to maintain the integrity of the AC system, you have to tough it out.
Originally posted by Toddster: I did this in just over 2 hours but if I was a newbie or just taking my sweet time I still wouldn't take more than 4 hours to do it.
im following this thread right now, and this is my second time doing this. however, i have already spent 7 hours and am not done yet, altho im almost ready to lift up the car, perhaps another 2 hours and i will be done, lots of work to change a clutch! your time will vary, of course, but optimistic estimates shouldnt be relied upon for those who are inexperienced. this is not due to rust on my car, because i have no rust, and no stuck bolts, but one stuck hose
im following this thread right now, and this is my second time doing this. however, i have already spent 7 hours and am not done yet, altho im almost ready to lift up the car, perhaps another 2 hours and i will be done, lots of work to change a clutch! your time will vary, of course, but optimistic estimates shouldnt be relied upon for those who are inexperienced. this is not due to rust on my car, because i have no rust, and no stuck bolts, but one stuck hose
jon
Times will always vary with experience. But as an example, today I removed a V-6, replaced the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate, remated the engine to the tranny and put it back in and drove the car in less than 8 hours. Mind you, I've done this about....oh, a billion times. But the point is that with practice, removing an engine is a job you can do before lunch.
On the A/C part, now that I read the posted pdf, there are a couple of routes you can go if you have a charged system and want to keep it that way. I would suggest this for keeping the a/c intact: Drop the exhaust and remove the assembly from the car. 2 bolts with spring tensioners at Y pipe, requires a 2' extension for the socket to make it easy. soak the bolts with pb blaster from the top first. then the hangers at the frame rails rear, With the exhaust out of there, there is plenty of room to get at all the compressor bolts. remove the clutch connector and the 1 or 2 pressure switch (depends on compressor type) plugs on the rear, then remove the bolts and tuck the compressor up to the firewall. the heat sheild brackets on the firewall are very handy for tying the compressor off and out of the way.
Also as a personal pref, if dropping the cradle I always drop the exhaust system and put it out of the way. it may be unneeded, but it's only 4 bolts, and allows much more access to the start wiring and a/c compressor.
hey could yall send me an word version scrambler_madness@hotmail.com , thank you so much for everyone for chipping in on this EPIC writeup. Does anyone have any helpful hints on getting it back in. My 3.8 Fiero is has a BAD BAD rod knock. Will be throwing in the spare motor soon. Stupid Riveria motor.....im stuck with putting in another 3.8L from an 86 Riveria lol wish me luck
I'll definitely be using this, thanks again!
im following this thread right now, and this is my second time doing this. however, i have already spent 7 hours and am not done yet, altho im almost ready to lift up the car, perhaps another 2 hours and i will be done, lots of work to change a clutch! your time will vary, of course, but optimistic estimates shouldnt be relied upon for those who are inexperienced. this is not due to rust on my car, because i have no rust, and no stuck bolts, but one stuck hose 
