I fear I may have to drop (or partially drop) the cradle to get to it. It is not obvious to me where the oil comes gushing out from. Any guesses?
Any tips for a procedure that will do this easier/quicker than dropping the whole cradle?

Distributor O-ring.

You need to replace it whenever you pull the distributor.

Yes your parts store should have it in stock.

You say "MAJOR" as in A LOT of oil.
Distributor o-ring leakage is usually not a "MAJOR" amount of oil leakage.
Could be the rear main crankshaft seal.
Remove the inspection covers and check inside the bellhousing.

There is oil under pressure on the other side of the distributor O-ring.

My guess is the distributor got pulled and the O-ring didn't get replaced.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 08-23-2012).]

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: My guess is the distributor got pulled and the O-ring didn't get replaced.

Just out of idle curiosity, what made you "guess" that from the information he gave?

He stated that it is a "MAJOR oil leak coming from somewhere near the starter" and that it "gushes" out.
For my own diagnostic education for the future, I'd very much like to understand the logic behind your "guess".
Thanks.
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[This message has been edited by randye (edited 08-23-2012).]

my guess would be the pipe that feeds the oil sending unit. where the pipe comes out of the block

Because when I didn't replace the o-ring first time I had the distributor out oil gushed out somewhere around the starter, (it seemed since that was where it was dripping off of the engine), and I could not see where it was coming from.

There isn't anything else near the starter that has oil under pressure to gush out. The line to the oil pressure sender isn't near the starter. Any other places, it shouldn't be 'gushing' from.

It will be interesting if the OP lets us know where the trouble was.

quote Originally posted by randye: Just out of idle curiosity, what made you "guess" that from the information he gave? He stated that it is a "MAJOR oil leak coming from somewhere near the starter" and that it "gushes" out. For my own diagnostic education for the future, I'd very much like to understand the logic behind your "guess". Thanks.

Distributor has been replaced with O-ring, and we checked that it's definitely not the cause.

Ouch

It wasn't replaced right before the leak started was it?

Can I see the pipe to the oil sending unit with the engine in the car?

How about rear main seal, could that be a cause?

quote Originally posted by Austrian Import: Can I see the pipe to the oil sending unit with the engine in the car? How about rear main seal, could that be a cause?

Tube that goes to oil pressure sending unit is right beside the oil filter.,,,small metal tube with a fitting on the end threaded into the side of the filter mount at the block.

If the "MAJOR" oil leak you are talking about is "gushing" as you say, out of where the starter goes into the bellhousing, then YES, you probably have a failed rear main seal.
Remove the sheet metal inspection cover(s) and look for oil pooled in the bottom or running out of the bellhousing.

Also, just a VERY WILD thought, check your oil filter...a failed seal or a loose oil filter will "gush" oil out too.

Also, check the dipstick tube where it enters the engine block near the starter, (above the oil pan rail). If that comes out of the block or is broken off, you will have oil spewing everywhere from there.

quote Originally posted by randye: Also, just a VERY WILD thought, check your oil filter...a failed seal or a loose oil filter will "gush" oil out too.

I had a bad oil leak from the oil filter on my 4.9, last week. The seal looked fine, but as soon as I replaced the filter, the leak was gone.

Thanks for the tips. I've actually replaced the oil filter, just in case it wasn't done right, or a manufacturing defect. Wasn't the filter.

my guess---- Valvecover gasket

Trace the oil path. Check valve covers. Might be the rear main seal. Could be the pan seal. Could be the pan itself, I have had little holes in the pan that were extremely hard to see but spilled a lott of oil.

Going to. I looked underneath the car, and had a hard time spotting it. All I could tell was that the starter was covered in oil.
I hope there is a way to tell before I drop the cradle, so I can figure out what parts I need to get, and make an assessment how long until my car is back on the road.

might be an oil pan leakage?

I buy some good engine cleaner and spray that side of the engine and let it sit for afew mins and wash off all the oil.
might be easyer to spot the leak with that side of the engine clean..

quote Originally posted by joshh44: might be an oil pan leakage? I buy some good engine cleaner and spray that side of the engine and let it sit for afew mins and wash off all the oil. might be easyer to spot the leak with that side of the engine clean..

I did that before replacing the oil filter. Still couldn't tell. I may try the process again.

Not sure if I mentioned that. Since it's near the starter, it's closer to the driver's side, transmission.

Does someone have a picture of a Fiero engine as viewed from the firewall? (Starter side)

Then, if people could highlight possible places for me to check, where it leaks from, please mark the pics, and repost. - I'm going to try to diagnose it by feel before I drop the cradle all the way. A rough guideline of where it could leak from would be awesomely helpful.

Generally, Ive never seen an oil pan seal fail on its own, there are no moving parts on it. From info I see, dist ' O ' ring or rear main are better than 90% chance. On the oil filter...did you make sure you got the old filters gasket off before installing the new one...and did you have one on the new filter. Ive seen (and done) both of those before.

* Not my picture

You can see the oil filter in this pic. This 2.8 is not equipped with A/C so you can see the oil pressure sender right next to the filter. If it had A/C then there would be an oil line that runs up to top of the belts, with the oil pressure sender located there. (With A/C the oil pressure sender would interfere with the A/C compressor). It sounds like the leak is not anywhere near those items.

There are no oil passages into the heads. The upper valve train is lubricated by oil traveling up the hollow pushrods. The oil then runs onto the heads in the valve cover area and then drains down. Overall there is not much oil up there and it is not under pressure. It could dribble, but not really gush. (in my estimation).

The rear main seal if it was leaking is located even with the starter. The oil is not under pressure at the rear main seal. It would again dribble, but not gush. Add to that the rear main seal is at the same level as the top of the starter, so it is unlikely oil could move out of the bellhousing and then be all over the starter, without it running out of the bottom of the bellhousing much more.

There are also two oil plugs at the back of the block - at the bell housing surface (I believe), but again that oil would show up running out of the bottom of the bellhousing the way I see it.

The only other place with oil under pressure is at the distributor O-ring. As I stated before - when mine was bad the oil ran out (gushed out) when the engine was running. I looked hard for it but I couldn't locate it at first. Finally I did come to finding it coming from the o-ring, running across the top of the engine and running out near the starter area.

Question - with the bellhousing inspection plate or starte removed, is the inside of the bellhousing covered in oil?

Thank you phonedawgz for the detailed description and rogergarrison for your insights.

I think I'll go back to square 1 and verify things I took for granted.

I'll take off the inspection plate and starter next opportunity that presents itself.
I made sure that the oil filter was okay, both the old one and the new one. Checked for gaskets both on filter and block.

When the car was running/driving on the road, there was oil on top of the transmission (possibly around the distributor as well, but I didn't see any) Then I raised the car on jackstands to replace filter and inspect for leaks I did not see any oil near distributor, or on transmission anymore, but rethinking it, it's possibly that with the rear raised 14"+ off the ground that all the oil would flow forward and off the distributor area. After rogergarrison's and phonedawgz comments, I'll reevaluate it.

I'm just happy to know that there aren't any freeze plugs or harder to replace things that could be the culprit. (not that I consider a rear main seal easy to replace.)

You mentioned changing the oil filter.
I had a situation where the filter seal stuck to the block, and when I put the new filter on, it 'seated', but it would leak.
I finally took off the filter and found the problem. Now when I pull a filter, I always check the seal is on the filter, or pull it off the block.

I'd like to vote for the oil pressure sender tube and mention the possibility of the oil pressure sender itself. TFS sells a stainless tube and I've experienced the oil pressure sender 'blowing it's top'.

Found a cool picture while searching the archives:

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Here is a pic from the front side of the engine. Maybe will be of help. You have to get under the car to check out the areas.

source: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/107980.html

If you look right above and to the right and left at the two little plugs, they both go into to pressurixed oil galleys. Larry

A while ago, my GT did the same thing, although it was more of a steady drip rather than "gushing." At first I thought it was the rear main until I noticed a small puddle of oil next to the distributor. I replaced the O-ring and it fixed the problem.

Long story short, +1 for the O-ring.

There is a plate on the back of the block that covers the camshaft bore. It is held on with three bolts and has a gasket. There is oil pressure behind this plate and it will only leak when running. In the picture above, you can see the boss it is mounted on, but the pic cuts off to soon to see the cover. The tranny and flywheel have to be pulled to fix it, so I hope this isn't the source of your leak.

Another thought- you'll have to pull the tranny and flywheel to replace the rear main seal, too.

If it's the rear main, you'll get oil everywhere under the bellhousing and it can contaminate the clutch and cause chatter when it releases, as well as slipping under load at higher engine speeds (this, of course, does not apply to automatics). If it's the cam cover, it can drip down the back of the block and drop down on the starter (if the leak is on that side of the block).

Good luck. I hope it turns out to be something easy.

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1986 SE Aero coupe.

3.4 DOHC swap is complete and running, now just have to finish the rest of the car...

I just repaired an oil leak, it made a big mess. Ir was distributor O ring. Be certain you lube the new O ring with oil beore you install it, I use vasolene. Twist the distributor as you seat it so the O ring does not get nicked by any sharp edges as it seats into the block. Get the BROWN O ring that is for high temperature. It cured my oil mess, had oil all under the engine and on the rear of the car.

Hopping in out of retirement to say... it's the engine.

I'm sorry, but you need a new one.

:P

Don't say that. Can't afford a new engine.

Any chance there are any TSB's that cover this?

Have you had any luck finding the leak yet?
If you have a friend, a 1/2 inch drill motor (low speed), and a pre-lube adapter, you can use the drill motor to run the oil pump while you look for the leak.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

I have the same problem. So far I've just added oil every once in a while, but it has gotten so that I have to put a quart in every week. I'm hoping it's not the main seal. if it is, I can probably just keep adding oil. Does anyone know if UV dyes like this one actually work? It would be nice to definitively find the source rather than just looking around and replacing parts until it stops.

[This message has been edited by nebulous (edited 02-22-2013).]

The first thing to do trying to locate a leak, is to go to a car wash and thoughly clean at least the underside of engine. If you do the top, protect things like coil, dist cap, major electical components like alternator with rags or plastic. Then keep a close watch for a beginning leak. Might help to lay a few nice clean large sheets of paper under it and look for fresh drips. I routinely look for fresh oil spots on the clean garage floor to catch them right away.

You might want to go to an auto parts store and pick up some oil dye. It's safe to use and will light up under a black light. I use it all the time to find annoying oil and hyd. leaks. The glowing streak under black light will lead you right to the source of the leak.

Thank you!

Forum: 1
Local Fiero guys: 0

Ding Ding Ding. it was coming from the distributor. After ruling everything else out and then watching the oil come out carefully I narrowed down the source of the massive oil leak.
The new replacement distributor had a manufacturing defect in the grinding behind the O-ring. Also the distributor shaft seemed bent, as every full revolution you could feel the rotor being harder to turn (geeling like passing like a magnet, or gentle notch)

Pictures to follow.

I'm not out of the park yet. After cleaning everything one more time I'm going to verify there aren't any other minor leaks anywhere...

Yet another validation. My leak was coming from the distributor as well. It can be hard to see that's the source of the leak, but for me it was. So, if you think you have an oil leak down below, do yourself a favor and just get one of these. Best $4 and 20 minutes I've spent in a while.